Captain 330/340 transfer policy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: outerspace
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think many actions could have taken to "react" to the sad ek521 episode,if this is the concern ....to be honest we do not know...but it would appear like they are looking into raising the experience level on the fat lady (only the fat lady..I dare to add and only starting from sep 18th onward)...fair enough: even if I am one of the screwed one, I remember a few year back, those little bus skipper whom to jump the fence had to accrue 4yrs command 330/340 and 3000 hrs...Nevertheless they never had to seat on the right ,nor go again trough screening and "captain transfer course" (by the way: where is it again on the OMD?)
What bothers me the most is why not make us cruise captain or having us augmenting? Still another SAFE captain would be in charge and the cost would be probably less (now in theory we could have a fat lady with 4 FD7 pay grade in the cockpit...)...Logging CM2 time is a professional suicide and we know that...
I want to go even further..what about new made fat bus captain? and what about 777? Now experience is measured in tons and not in hours?
I believe I would have loved to learn a big deal from my colleagues on the 380 and I would have loved to augment even 3 years if that was asked to make them feel SAFE...now I just want to bail out. Forgive me guys but I think that no one will care about the few of us affected by this BS...and soon all will be forgotten in the usual numbness.
What bothers me the most is why not make us cruise captain or having us augmenting? Still another SAFE captain would be in charge and the cost would be probably less (now in theory we could have a fat lady with 4 FD7 pay grade in the cockpit...)...Logging CM2 time is a professional suicide and we know that...
I want to go even further..what about new made fat bus captain? and what about 777? Now experience is measured in tons and not in hours?
I believe I would have loved to learn a big deal from my colleagues on the 380 and I would have loved to augment even 3 years if that was asked to make them feel SAFE...now I just want to bail out. Forgive me guys but I think that no one will care about the few of us affected by this BS...and soon all will be forgotten in the usual numbness.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting reading. A while back I wondered how they would deal with the eventual close of the 330/340 fleet. The cruise relief captain is not a bad ideal, but then you are admitting that the only issue to your conversion 'inexperience' is takeoff and landing (which it probably just is).
Would there be any takers if LHS 777 was offered? Not the most cost effective option, but it is the most under staffed fleet.
Would there be any takers if LHS 777 was offered? Not the most cost effective option, but it is the most under staffed fleet.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: outerspace
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise relief implies someone else is signing the book...this is the issue apparently: who is in charge,not who lands ( a cadet can land,can't he?)...
I reverse the question 777-200LR: would you take the RHS on the A380?
I reverse the question 777-200LR: would you take the RHS on the A380?
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I know several who would be takers for 777 LHS over sitting RHS on the 380. It's honestly a more valuable type rating at this point anyways.
Then the "more experienced" 3000 hr.777 guys could transfer over to the 380 LHS...after all, why would you want to put an 3-4 yr. 330/340 Capt in that slot???
Then the "more experienced" 3000 hr.777 guys could transfer over to the 380 LHS...after all, why would you want to put an 3-4 yr. 330/340 Capt in that slot???
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: dxb
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is what happens when policies are made by people who haven't flown an aircraft in years, or not all, and spend their time in an office instead. Total disconnect. It's a 
joke.
joke.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to remind you that those 'demoted' will be working 60 hrs a month in the RHS on full Captains T's & C's. It will be the best job in the company, don't feel too bad for them.
So I assume that senior FO's on the 330/340 about to upgrade will have to obtain 2000hrs on type now too to avoid leapfrogging their colleagues, or is it still 2500hrs as per the book?
So I assume that senior FO's on the 330/340 about to upgrade will have to obtain 2000hrs on type now too to avoid leapfrogging their colleagues, or is it still 2500hrs as per the book?
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, clearly Flareflyer.
You can choose to focus on the positives, or the negatives. That's all. Perhaps if I add a few dots to the end of my sentence you may understand that.....
You can choose to focus on the positives, or the negatives. That's all. Perhaps if I add a few dots to the end of my sentence you may understand that.....
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to remind you that those 'demoted' will be working 60 hrs a month in the RHS on full Captains T's & C's. It will be the best job in the company, don't feel too bad for them.
So I assume that senior FO's on the 330/340 about to upgrade will have to obtain 2000hrs on type now too to avoid leapfrogging their colleagues, or is it still 2500hrs as per the book?
So I assume that senior FO's on the 330/340 about to upgrade will have to obtain 2000hrs on type now too to avoid leapfrogging their colleagues, or is it still 2500hrs as per the book?
Xulu- as one of those affected, I find your "best job" comment offensive.
You make the assumption that I don't enjoy the responsibility that comes with a command - I do.
You also assume that I would somehow relish giving that up for a minimum of 18 months just to be made to go hoop jumping again for no reason - I do not.
Think more carefully before posting your ill thought out opinions.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: outerspace
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally agree with Flareflyer and GA Button.
Xulu, I reckon you have your reasons and I do appreciate your bitterness. You have my sincere sympathy.
Certainly though you leave me with a question: Do you really think that "a trouble shared is a trouble halved"? Dos it make you feel better to see colleagues senior then you are being mis-treated? Where this pattern bring you? Does it make your life or career any better?
Unfortunately it is true what Flareflier posted:Pilots........our own worst enemies......
Xulu, I reckon you have your reasons and I do appreciate your bitterness. You have my sincere sympathy.
Certainly though you leave me with a question: Do you really think that "a trouble shared is a trouble halved"? Dos it make you feel better to see colleagues senior then you are being mis-treated? Where this pattern bring you? Does it make your life or career any better?
Unfortunately it is true what Flareflier posted:Pilots........our own worst enemies......
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: outerspace
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way, any comment is appreciated and thank you for yours Xulu...
I started this thread to know what people would think about this "new policy" , so I asked for it...
I started this thread to know what people would think about this "new policy" , so I asked for it...
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
increase of expierence
sorry to repeat myself
OMA required 2000hr widebody prefered airbus prior to EK to be a direct entry 380 FO.
recruitment for DEC required 7000hr total and 3000hr command on 55t plus(not necessarily airbus)
Who is NOT qualified to be a 380 captain
FO with 3000+ hr on EK airbus in the EK network coming from 330/340, including 1000 to 1500hr 380
Com with multiple years command on 330/340
what are the high risk phases of a flight. so far i know taxi,T/O and landing. what have we done now
instead of appreciating the expierence of doing a hight rate of sectors on a widebody we are defining the expierence level to the MTOW and to the possible age of the candidate.
who is qualified to be 380 commander
FO with no widebody expierence prior to EK, and the minimum time (arround 2000hr total flight time EK, equals max 1500 stick time 380)
B777 Commander with no or minimum airbus expierence which is years back, in the worst case not even 330/340, it might be 310 time.
Pilots who only flew to DEST where ATC is on a high standard, the airports are fitted with large scale runways usually flat areas at sea level, easy to accomodate a 380.
conclusion
the less airbus widebody expierence you have in EK and prior, the more you are qualified to be a 380 captain. And the more you are able to sleep or watch movies in the bunk the better your chances to be an upgrade nominee.
does that make sense or is it logic, I dont know
sorry to repeat myself
OMA required 2000hr widebody prefered airbus prior to EK to be a direct entry 380 FO.
recruitment for DEC required 7000hr total and 3000hr command on 55t plus(not necessarily airbus)
Who is NOT qualified to be a 380 captain
FO with 3000+ hr on EK airbus in the EK network coming from 330/340, including 1000 to 1500hr 380
Com with multiple years command on 330/340
what are the high risk phases of a flight. so far i know taxi,T/O and landing. what have we done now
instead of appreciating the expierence of doing a hight rate of sectors on a widebody we are defining the expierence level to the MTOW and to the possible age of the candidate.
who is qualified to be 380 commander
FO with no widebody expierence prior to EK, and the minimum time (arround 2000hr total flight time EK, equals max 1500 stick time 380)
B777 Commander with no or minimum airbus expierence which is years back, in the worst case not even 330/340, it might be 310 time.
Pilots who only flew to DEST where ATC is on a high standard, the airports are fitted with large scale runways usually flat areas at sea level, easy to accomodate a 380.
conclusion
the less airbus widebody expierence you have in EK and prior, the more you are qualified to be a 380 captain. And the more you are able to sleep or watch movies in the bunk the better your chances to be an upgrade nominee.
does that make sense or is it logic, I dont know
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: outerspace
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
deafening silence
A deafening silence as expected..... nobody cares but the few miserable affected... office is a steel wall ..
We have been penalized by the misfortune of operating a dying fleet ,forcing us to fly MFF 50 hrs a months for the last few years, with 2hrs sectors and 25 cycles in war places and monsoon weather, all in the "wee small hors of the morning"...but this is not enough to accrue experience...we need to be SAFE to be allowed to fly the big bus....
this is one of the saddest thing that I have seen in this line of job...we touched the bottom of the barrel and we keep on digging because we are way passed scraping..
I guess no much else to say. Hello tomorrow.
We have been penalized by the misfortune of operating a dying fleet ,forcing us to fly MFF 50 hrs a months for the last few years, with 2hrs sectors and 25 cycles in war places and monsoon weather, all in the "wee small hors of the morning"...but this is not enough to accrue experience...we need to be SAFE to be allowed to fly the big bus....
this is one of the saddest thing that I have seen in this line of job...we touched the bottom of the barrel and we keep on digging because we are way passed scraping..
I guess no much else to say. Hello tomorrow.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The poor 340 guys have all my sympathy. EK is definitely the naked emperor and think their clothes are still the most beautiful on earth, although the sight is sickening.
But some thoughts on here are somewhat strange:
Suddenly the much bashed T7 becomes attractive again to busdrivers (
)
Furthermore, which T7 driver do you honestly think would apply to transfer onto an animal with a death spell? (
)
.... or do you suggest they should be forced? You know, the ones that apparently had such a horrible outcome on transition courses?
But some thoughts on here are somewhat strange:
Yes, I know several who would be takers for 777 LHS over sitting RHS on the 380. It's honestly a more valuable type rating at this point anyways.
Then the "more experienced" 3000 hr.777 guys could transfer over to the 380 LHS...after all, why would you want to put an 3-4 yr. 330/340 Capt in that slot???
Then the "more experienced" 3000 hr.777 guys could transfer over to the 380 LHS...after all, why would you want to put an 3-4 yr. 330/340 Capt in that slot???
) Furthermore, which T7 driver do you honestly think would apply to transfer onto an animal with a death spell? (
) .... or do you suggest they should be forced? You know, the ones that apparently had such a horrible outcome on transition courses?
Last edited by glofish; 21st Sep 2016 at 04:13.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only reason it might be attractive is because you continue with your command, and it gives you more options should you not wish to stay here, than sitting right seat on a 380 for who knows how long. Which would you prefer?
Furthermore, I would not want to force any guys to flip over who didn't wish to go, I was just being sarcastic as to the fact that they took 777 Capt's over a few years ago. Hence the eye roll at the end of my comment that you chose not to include in the above. Nice.
Furthermore, I would not want to force any guys to flip over who didn't wish to go, I was just being sarcastic as to the fact that they took 777 Capt's over a few years ago. Hence the eye roll at the end of my comment that you chose not to include in the above. Nice.
Last edited by airbusgirl66; 21st Sep 2016 at 04:58.
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the other question is
when now the downgraded, at full Command pay futher FO will be there for 18month 1000hr and and 3 PPC. LIC entry P2 and modified NAC course to recover the command position.
But what happens than if the 380 will not be contiunued and the company sudenly has the brilliant idea in 18 month they will not need anymore comanders for a reasonable amount of time
Boom, and suddenly our expierenced 330/340 captains find themself on a permanent FO role.
next possible step will that somebody will find out that somebody else made the wise deceision that a FO gets a command pay, and because in the office are never failures made, its only the FOs failure that he get the command pay. Make a tought on whats the next step than, because we need to save money. Or will all FO get an pay raise to command level because they have been delayed, cheated and overtaken. I am sure plan B will not happen.
when now the downgraded, at full Command pay futher FO will be there for 18month 1000hr and and 3 PPC. LIC entry P2 and modified NAC course to recover the command position.
But what happens than if the 380 will not be contiunued and the company sudenly has the brilliant idea in 18 month they will not need anymore comanders for a reasonable amount of time
Boom, and suddenly our expierenced 330/340 captains find themself on a permanent FO role.
next possible step will that somebody will find out that somebody else made the wise deceision that a FO gets a command pay, and because in the office are never failures made, its only the FOs failure that he get the command pay. Make a tought on whats the next step than, because we need to save money. Or will all FO get an pay raise to command level because they have been delayed, cheated and overtaken. I am sure plan B will not happen.
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
quick question
what happens to the 330 DEC who had been already moved to the 380, they dont have the hours either. Are they save? intressting enough some of them are trainers
what happens to the 330 DEC who had been already moved to the 380, they dont have the hours either. Are they save? intressting enough some of them are trainers