LIPS / API CLAIM DENIED
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I believe BVI may have been the locale before it was moved to Guernsey. That in itself is NOT a cause for concern. It's fairly common.
Non-profit funds such as this need a shell/'head office' location, particularly because Dubai does not make it easy to set up a non-profit.
As to why there's no votes (on anything) allowed by us regular pilot members, that's a mystery.
Non-profit funds such as this need a shell/'head office' location, particularly because Dubai does not make it easy to set up a non-profit.
As to why there's no votes (on anything) allowed by us regular pilot members, that's a mystery.
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DEFINITIONS
SELF-REPORTED DISABILITIES: A disability characterized by manifestations that are not verifiable or conclusive using tests or procedures accepted as standard medical practice OR are historically limiting to one’s employment from an aviation regulatory point-of-view but are not limiting to a person’s major life activities, such as performing strenuous physical tasks, walking, speaking, learning, eating or breathing OR include, but are not limited to, one or more of the following: chronic fatigue, any allergy or sensitivity to chemicals or the environment, chronic pain conditions, obstructive sleep apnoea, insomnia, vertigo, dizziness, nausea, loss of consciousness, headache, pain, Medically Unexplained Physical Symptoms (MUPS), Meniere’s Disease, Migraines, Idiopathic Generalized Epilepsy, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome, Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disease (SEID), fatigue, loss of energy, stiffness, soreness, ringing in the ears, numbness, itching, sudden or rapid or unexplained loss of hearing, sudden or rapid or unexplained loss of visual acuity, colour.
What this means is that if you lose your class 1 medical because of any of the conditions mentioned above (AND Harvey Watt & Co do not cite pre existing condition)you may be awarded six months basic salary and nothing more. Previously the plan would have paid up to age 60 or 65 depending on when you put in your claim.
If you combine the exclusions presented in the above definition with the unannounced new definition of pre existing condition there is a higher chance your claim will be denied.
Last edited by Thunderbirds54321; 25th Jan 2018 at 17:02.
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"What this means is that if you lose your class 1 medical because of any of the conditions mentioned above (AND Harvey Watt & Co do not cite pre existing condition)you may be awarded six months basic salary and nothing more. Previously the plan would have paid up to age 60 or 65 depending on when you put in your claim."
Surely, this is the kind of significant change in cover, pilot members should be able to vote on, PRIOR to them being implemented? Instead, we are simply TOLD, after the fact. Because 'PD' chooses to do so.
The paid Consultant 'PD' isn't even an emma-rates pilot any more... he doesn't have his own coverage money at stake... so this & other cover changes don't affect him, of course.
Surely, this is the kind of significant change in cover, pilot members should be able to vote on, PRIOR to them being implemented? Instead, we are simply TOLD, after the fact. Because 'PD' chooses to do so.
The paid Consultant 'PD' isn't even an emma-rates pilot any more... he doesn't have his own coverage money at stake... so this & other cover changes don't affect him, of course.
Last edited by 777-Up; 26th Jan 2018 at 05:57.
Talpac, its one guy, multiple handles.
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Pilot Funds are being used to defend Harvey Watt & Co ‘recommendations'
So they should make an announcement to something to come that has not even happen yet?
I receive a letter this week from them. They talk about legal things. That not good enough for you I guess.
"There are several, ongoing legal disputes from claimants regarding their entitlements which also increases the legal costs of the Trust’s attorneys. This is an expected by-product of the impartiality of the Trust which bases its entitlement decisions solely on the recommendation of Harvey Watt & Co. which makes its recommendation based on the Rules of the Plan which are written by your fellow Emirates pilots.
For those of you unfamiliar with the API Trust; having placed the bank account where you make your contributions into the Trust, payments from the account can only be directed by the Trustee, not by the pilots who manage the Plan. The Trustee makes that decision based on the recommendation of Harvey Watt & Co.....the pilots who manage the Plan have no authority to direct the Trustee in that payment process. By placing the Rules into the Trust the pilots who manage the Plan wanted to ensure that the Trustee reviews any changes to the Rules and makes the decision to approve or reject based on the Trust’s legally-regulated duty to protect the members (you) as well as the fund (for everyone); again, the pilots who manage the plan have no authority to direct the Trustee as to whether their suggestions will be followed."
I receive a letter this week from them. They talk about legal things. That not good enough for you I guess.
"There are several, ongoing legal disputes from claimants regarding their entitlements which also increases the legal costs of the Trust’s attorneys. This is an expected by-product of the impartiality of the Trust which bases its entitlement decisions solely on the recommendation of Harvey Watt & Co. which makes its recommendation based on the Rules of the Plan which are written by your fellow Emirates pilots.
For those of you unfamiliar with the API Trust; having placed the bank account where you make your contributions into the Trust, payments from the account can only be directed by the Trustee, not by the pilots who manage the Plan. The Trustee makes that decision based on the recommendation of Harvey Watt & Co.....the pilots who manage the Plan have no authority to direct the Trustee in that payment process. By placing the Rules into the Trust the pilots who manage the Plan wanted to ensure that the Trustee reviews any changes to the Rules and makes the decision to approve or reject based on the Trust’s legally-regulated duty to protect the members (you) as well as the fund (for everyone); again, the pilots who manage the plan have no authority to direct the Trustee as to whether their suggestions will be followed."
So forensically dealing with the above statement point by point:
Pilot loses medical
Harvey Watt & Co receive pilot medical file for review
Harvey Watt ‘recommend' claim is settled or denied
Trustee follows Harvey Watt & Co recommendation without question (solely)
The fund money (pilot contributed money) is being used to pay Trust hired Attorneys to fight legal action brought against the trustee Sovereign (Guernsey) LIMITED by several API claimant members who feel their claim has been wrongly denied as a result of recommendations made by Harvey Watt & Co.
Seems Harvey Watt & Co recommendations are being challenged and the pilot fund money is being used as a legal fund.
There appears to be no known aircrewprotection rule allowing the fund to be spent in this way.
Members of the aircrewprotection plan would be strongly advised to dowload a copy of both LIPS and API rules for their personal records.This will allow members to note changes made unannounced by the pilot managers (aka consultants).
Copies of the rules are available for download in PDF format on aircrewptotection.org website.
Forensic analysis continued:
The pilots managers write the rules of the plan
Harvey Watt & Co makes its ‘recommendations’ based on the rules of the plan.
The Trustee Sovereign (Guernsey) Limited bases its entitlement decisions solely on the ‘recommendation' of Harvey Watt & Co
Seems pilot managers ( aka consultants ) directly control both Trustee Sovereign Trust (Guernsey) Limited and Harvey Watt & Co by changing the rules at source.
The pilot managers have absolute control of the rules, can change them at will,and they do so.
Why? Because they wrote the rule that says so:
11 VALIDITY AND CHANGES OF RULES
11.1 The Rules of the Plan are posted on the API official website at Aircrew Protection International | Dashboard.
11.2 The current version of the Rules posted on the website is the valid, controlling version.
11.3 The current version of the Rules (Rule 11.2 above) on the date a benefits claim is filed shall be the controlling version for the claim. It is the responsibility of API to furnish the current, controlling version of the Rules to the Member when the benefit claim is filed.
11.4 Changes to the Rules will be posted under ‘NEWS’ on the official website at Aircrew Protection International | Dashboard. Alternatively, the trustee may elect to notify the Member via newsletter.
11.5 Previous versions of the Rules are obsolete when a newer version is posted on the official website. Terms and conditions of previous versions of the Rules are not controlling and have no validity except on the date that the Emirates Loss of Income Protection Scheme (LIPS) notifies the Members that it has changed its name to Aircrew Protection International:
source aircrew protection.org
RULES API RULES
API 4 december 2017
page 14 0f 27
RULE 11
FACT FYI
The API COMMITTEE (the pilots who manage the plan) have changed their title to
API CONSULTANTS
go to aircrewprotection.org HOW API WORKS and scroll to the end of the
page.
GD ACCOUNT SIGNATORY ONLY (signs the cheques :thought he had resigned from API)
PD TRUST CONSULTANT (aka Superman)
DT TRUST CONSULTANT
DM INVESTMENT COMMITTEE
JP MEDICAL RECORDS
Last edited by Thunderbirds54321; 31st Jan 2018 at 02:53.
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Guys and Girls,
Latest update, as of 09:00 UK time a legal warrant was served upon Sovereign Trust Guernsey Ltd, informing them of legal action in the High Court, in pursuant of the claim for denied legal payment from LIPS/API after loss of Medical.
Guys your monthly contributions are now probably going to be used in defending this action, this cannot be acceptable use of our money.
Questions now need to be asked to the board, directors and any consultants as to how they have allowed things to progress this far, as if this goes all the way it isn't going to be cheap, and will probably run into the tens of thousands of UK pounds.
Latest update, as of 09:00 UK time a legal warrant was served upon Sovereign Trust Guernsey Ltd, informing them of legal action in the High Court, in pursuant of the claim for denied legal payment from LIPS/API after loss of Medical.
Guys your monthly contributions are now probably going to be used in defending this action, this cannot be acceptable use of our money.
Questions now need to be asked to the board, directors and any consultants as to how they have allowed things to progress this far, as if this goes all the way it isn't going to be cheap, and will probably run into the tens of thousands of UK pounds.
Last edited by gardenshed; 29th Jan 2018 at 13:17.
short flights long nights
I would suggest hundreds of thousand pounds in the High Court..ever seen what a QC charges? I should know, my ex SIL is one....
So should they cave with every threat of a court case?
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At the risk of teaching you to suck eggs ..this depends on whether
1 Is it legal to risk the pilot money on a case.
2.The potential loss to the fund if you lose.
3.Whether the pilot managers give a d as its not their money...it is pilot money so we are told.
16 INVESTMENTS AND ACCOUNTS
16.4 All contributions paid by, or on behalf of the Members, less any remuneration or expenses shall be invested and/or held to administer the Plan and to fund the liabilities of the Plan to the extent that the Plan allows. The Trustee shall, where there have been deductions made in respect of remuneration or expenses provide the Members with a proper accounting for such deductions.
API Rule 16.4 API – 4 December 2017 Page 20 of 27
1 Is it legal to risk the pilot money on a case.
2.The potential loss to the fund if you lose.
3.Whether the pilot managers give a d as its not their money...it is pilot money so we are told.
16 INVESTMENTS AND ACCOUNTS
16.4 All contributions paid by, or on behalf of the Members, less any remuneration or expenses shall be invested and/or held to administer the Plan and to fund the liabilities of the Plan to the extent that the Plan allows. The Trustee shall, where there have been deductions made in respect of remuneration or expenses provide the Members with a proper accounting for such deductions.
API Rule 16.4 API – 4 December 2017 Page 20 of 27
Last edited by Thunderbirds54321; 29th Jan 2018 at 13:57.
That doesn't answer the question though does it? Should they cave with every threat to of a court case? This also would cost the fund money right? I don't know the details of your case. Nor should I, as it has nothing to do with me. But when you get on here with a multiple of different handles having conversations with yourself, it does make me hope you are OK.
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Donpizmeov,
No they shouldn't cave into every legal action, but where substantial expert evidence from professionals in their field, have disputed the facts, as presented by some unknown faces in Harvey Watt, and by the way what are their qualifications in the medical field,( do they stretch to eminent professors in the subject matter as being argued in this case?)
Then one has to ask why the board,directors and consultants of API have taken things so far, is this some sort of Macho thing ?
And by the way I do not have multiple handles, just some knowledge of this case.
No they shouldn't cave into every legal action, but where substantial expert evidence from professionals in their field, have disputed the facts, as presented by some unknown faces in Harvey Watt, and by the way what are their qualifications in the medical field,( do they stretch to eminent professors in the subject matter as being argued in this case?)
Then one has to ask why the board,directors and consultants of API have taken things so far, is this some sort of Macho thing ?
And by the way I do not have multiple handles, just some knowledge of this case.
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Without dwelling on Donpizmeov's belief all other participants on PPRUNE are a single person;
if Harvey Watt (a for-profit company) is now running the API show, why are pilot contributions put at risk in such cases, to defend Harvey Watt's own decisions?
Anyone know why? It doesn't seem to make any sense.
I don't recall pilots in the plan being asked about this most recent change, either.
if Harvey Watt (a for-profit company) is now running the API show, why are pilot contributions put at risk in such cases, to defend Harvey Watt's own decisions?
Anyone know why? It doesn't seem to make any sense.
I don't recall pilots in the plan being asked about this most recent change, either.
Last edited by 777-Up; 29th Jan 2018 at 17:25.
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I believe what Don means is - if you get sued and before the court rules, does that automatically mean that the claimant / claim is valid?
Because in that case, just file and forget about the ruling - because ‘hey, I filed, I’m right.’
Claim ain’t a judgment gents.
Because in that case, just file and forget about the ruling - because ‘hey, I filed, I’m right.’
Claim ain’t a judgment gents.
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API Response
I asked API about this legal action and I received the following response:
As of 18:30 (Dubai time) 29 January, Sovereign Trust Guernsey had not been served any papers, warrants, legal documents, notes or anything that could be construed as a legal notification. This is not to say the Trust won't be served in the future but does highlight the accuracy of his statements.
The Trustee was sent a screenshot of the post from PPRuNe and had no idea to what the poster was referring.
We are well aware of who this poster is. The attorneys for the API Trust and the attorneys for the claimant had agreed to, and were participating in, a mediation / arbitration appeal process; mid-way through the process his attorney notified the Trustee they no longer wanted to participate and would be filing legal papers.
The monthly contributions are used to run the API business. Anything which effects the API business is managed through contributions. Counter claims are a part of the business. Paying the current 21 claimants is also part of the business.
As of 18:30 (Dubai time) 29 January, Sovereign Trust Guernsey had not been served any papers, warrants, legal documents, notes or anything that could be construed as a legal notification. This is not to say the Trust won't be served in the future but does highlight the accuracy of his statements.
The Trustee was sent a screenshot of the post from PPRuNe and had no idea to what the poster was referring.
We are well aware of who this poster is. The attorneys for the API Trust and the attorneys for the claimant had agreed to, and were participating in, a mediation / arbitration appeal process; mid-way through the process his attorney notified the Trustee they no longer wanted to participate and would be filing legal papers.
The monthly contributions are used to run the API business. Anything which effects the API business is managed through contributions. Counter claims are a part of the business. Paying the current 21 claimants is also part of the business.
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I don't believe anyone is suggesting a claim is a judgment.
The question members care more about, is; why are pilot members having to pay all fees for the defendant (API), when it's a Harvey Watt Co. decision?
The question members care more about, is; why are pilot members having to pay all fees for the defendant (API), when it's a Harvey Watt Co. decision?
Last edited by 777-Up; 30th Jan 2018 at 06:12.