LIPS / API CLAIM DENIED

[Thunderbirds54321]

You Tube

[SOPS]

Sorry,,I must be stupid..I don't get your point

[gardenshed]

Basically there is a massive lawsuit about to be served on API, which has the potential to absorb a huge amount of money in legal fees etc, and not a peep from the directors.

[Tiredofbeingtired]

So they should make an announcement to something to come that has not even happen yet?

I receive a letter this week from them. They talk about legal things. That not good enough for you I guess.

"There are several, ongoing legal disputes from claimants regarding their entitlements which also increases the legal costs of the Trust’s attorneys. This is an expected by-product of the impartiality of the Trust which bases its entitlement decisions solely on the recommendation of Harvey Watt & Co. which makes its recommendation based on the Rules of the Plan which are written by your fellow Emirates pilots.

For those of you unfamiliar with the API Trust; having placed the bank account where you make your contributions into the Trust, payments from the account can only be directed by the Trustee, not by the pilots who manage the Plan. The Trustee makes that decision based on the recommendation of Harvey Watt & Co. or the Admin team (regarding Leave Service Benefit calculations); the pilots who manage the Plan have no authority to direct the Trustee in that payment process. By placing the Rules into the Trust the pilots who manage the Plan wanted to ensure that the Trustee reviews any changes to the Rules and makes the decision to approve or reject based on the Trust’s legally-regulated duty to protect the members (you) as well as the fund (for everyone); again, the pilots who manage the plan have no authority to direct the Trustee as to whether their suggestions will be followed."

[Thunderbirds54321]

Who told you that ? Superman ?
Sovereign Trust are instructed by the API Board...that’s why things are at a tipping point.
Too much protecting the fund from everyone ( not for everyone )...so the lawsuits

[777-Up]

That letter, quoted above from API (if true) illustrates what's gone wrong.

LIPS/API was set up, around 2004 and promoted as a program to exclusively look after emma-rates pilots. Non-profit mutual. With Directors who were also the same.

Harvey Watt were HIRED as a commercial medical specialist service provider, year-to-year, simply to make medical recommendations (NOT decisions). Directors (fellow ee-kay pilots, remember, whom you could phone anytime & sit down with) would then make the decision. Looking after pilots.

Many of us joined, in good faith, on this basis.

If API is now clearly stating Harvey Watt is calling all the shots on which pilot gets paid, that is a total reversal of the original intent. Tail-wagging-the-dog.

And all without proper notice to Members. Wake up; a single, unelected individual; PD (shown in weird video above) is making all these changes, unauthorised by members. Same guy, PD, wrote the content of that letter. He's not even an emma-rates pilot any more.

The other pilot 'Consultants' are either; walking away or doing nothing.

Why would any pilot hand their fate & family's financial future over to Harvey Watt Inc., when the plan is neither underwritten or insured against legal actions. A single successful lawsuit, or even just the cost defending decisions (made by an unrelated, for-hire service provider, Harvey Watt) can deplete the entire fund.

If Harvey Watt is making decisions, then surely legal liability should be with them, and the fund not be using pilot members' money to defend against legal action.

And why are offshore API pilot 'Consultants' needed or paid, if all decisions are outsourced & fully automatic?

[Praise Jebus]

777, T bird whatever handle you go by clearly you have an issue with API and one basis of that gripe is that it's no longer looking after EK pilots by EK pilots. Many EK pilots are members of API and it's up to them to decide if it's the right fit or not. Your constant talking down of API only weakens the image and strength of a fund that over 2000 of us pay into. Politely back off and stop jeopardizing something we choose to be in or out of. Your persistant attempt to create "a run on the bank" is not in the best interest of the rest of us, your supposed colleagues. If you're in API then get out of it, if you're deep in a legal challenge with it then may justice prevail.

[777-Up]

Praise Jebus; you raise some valid points. And nobody could reasonably argue with you, if;

If pilot members actually were given facts before decisions were made by the paid API 'Consultants'. Or pilots had an annual, or even once vote (as most mutual plans do, even CLUBS such as APC have votes & member oversight) then what you say would have weight.

As it is, we're left to discover surprising details outside. Here, for example. With our money locked-up inside.

Unfortunately, API pilot members have never been asked their view, not once. Nor do they have any say whatsoever, in how their own fund is run, or money is spent. Why not?

[Tiredofbeingtired]

I wrote to API on their website and copy/paste from prune and tell them from me on Pprune is questions about the letter I receive; is it fine to ask for answers to them?

Thanks for taking the time to write us; to be honest we wish more guys with questions would just ask us instead of asking each other.

(Q). That letter, quoted above from API (if true) illustrates what's gone wrong.
(A). I don’t follow Pprune but sounds like he’s using a variation on the famous, “Liar liar, pants on fire” offense. Cunning.

(Q). LIPS/API was set up, around 2004 and promoted as a program to exclusively look after emma-rates pilots. Non-profit mutual. With Directors who were also the same.
(A). We are still a non-profit mutual fund. When LIPS (the original plan) was set up it was, indeed, set up by current Emirates pilots. As time has gone on some of them have moved on as well to other careers or even just to spend time with family; this API stuff eats up a lot of time! As for me, I resigned from Emirates last year because the flying hours were just too much. I stayed with API because I like doing it and helping the pilots.

(Q). Harvey Watt were HIRED as a commercial medical specialist service provider, year-to-year, simply to make medical recommendations (NOT decisions). The Directors would then make the decision. Looking after pilots. Many joined, in good faith, on this basis.
(A). Back when LIPS started, pilots making claims presented their medical records to their fellow pilots who would then make decisions with no medical training to back them up. Furthermore, there was no standard to safeguard protected health information. This is in no way a slight against the original founders; they were just doing what they thought was right to help their fellow pilots.

In practical terms, that means if you were to file a claim you’d get your full medical file from the clinic, bring it to their houses, let them read your entire medical history from the first day you went into the clinic with symptoms of an STD (for example) til now. Then, having read your entire file they are required to make a decision on a complex medical problem based on reports written by doctors. I don’t know about you but I don’t want my fellow pilots looking at my medical records, I don’t want them making judgements about my medical problems. I don’t want them talking to their wives about me, or to other pilots I fly with, starting every conversation with, “Mate, you must promise not to tell anyone but…” (I know, that could never happen because pilots never gossip).

Regarding the pilots making the decisions, could this happen? “Mate, I know this guy, been flying with him for donkey’s years. He’s a good guy! His record is a bit thin but let’s take care of him” or the opposite, “Mate, flew with him, he’s a tw*t, I say don’t pay him.”

Having pilots in charge of your medical records and making decisions based on them was deemed, by everyone involved, to be an idea whose time had come to go away. The directors at the time looked at a group of medical providers and contracted with Harvey Watt & Co. in the USA; they have legal regulations regarding protected health information and their doctors are aviation specialists. They are paid a flat rate / pilot / month to review the medical records for completeness, check if it’s a pre-existing condition or Self-Reported Disability in accordance with the API Rules and forward it to the Trust.

(Q). If API is now clearly stating Harvey Watt is calling all the shots on which pilot gets paid, that is a total reversal of the original intent. Tail-wagging-the-dog. And all without proper notice to Members. Wake up. A single person, PD (shown in weird video above) is making all these changes, unauthorised by members. Same guy, PD, wrote the content of that letter. He's not even an emma-rates pilot any more.
(A). We have not stated in any way that Harvey Watt is calling the shots on which pilots get paid. They simply make a medical recommendation, taking the API Rules into account, and forward it to the Trustee. It is the Trustee’s legal responsibility to make the decision.

The guy who wrote this blames me, alone, for making all these changes. Of course it’s nonsense. No decision made by the managers of API is made unilaterally. Every decision we make from its birth as an idea to its final delivery is discussed with the entire team which includes Harvey Watt & Co. (for medical questions or clarity), our attorneys (for questions on UAE law), our contracted insurance company (for questions regarding life insurance) and the API Trust in Guernsey U.K. (for matters of the Trust, since they are the final arbiter and by law have the responsibility for the Plan and the fund).

I did write the content of the letter you received this week. I’m the guy charged with, for lack of a better term, corporate communications. I wrote a draft, I sent it to the other managers as well as to our accountants (for the financial data), Harvey Watt & Co. (for the medical view on Self-Reported Disability), the actuary in South Africa regarding the number of un-explainable claims), The Trust (for review regarding their mention) and the investment platform (for returns information). After everyone had provided their input we asked several line-serving Emirates pilots to read it and give their feedback. Only after that process was complete did we release it to the membership. FYI that email was months in the making and was viewed by numerous sets of eyes and no one picked up on the confusion point regarding self-reported benefits. So, I apologize to you for that. If you're also confused, the only change to benefits is for those pilots who submit claims that fall under Self-Reported Disabilities. Everything else is still til age 65.

Regarding the ‘allegation’ of “unauthorized by members”, I’m not sure what that means. Did he mean the members told us not to do something and we did? Or did he mean we didn’t ask the members’ approval before we did something? I prefer to think it’s the latter since rarely do we even hear from the members on policy and when we do we take those very seriously. If he’s trying to say we don’t communicate enough, maybe that is a valid point. But we don’t really hear that from the members. We’d be happy to communicate more but most of the stuff we do is just daily ‘day-to-day’ and, to be honest, is pretty dull. That being said, when we do make a big decision we make every attempt to notify you as quickly as we can; we put it in the medical newsletter and deliver it to your mailbox or, as in the most recent case we did a direct email and we always post it on the NEWS in the website. In the past we sent out surveys; shocking how few people even took the time to answer! We can do surveys again, if enough people suggest it. Its not free but if that’s what the members want that’s what we want.

(Q). The other pilot 'Consultants' are either; walking away or doing nothing.
(A). API is like any organization made up of people. They sign on, they do their work, they make a decision to go do something else. There is no one “doing nothing!”. On the contrary (and on this I will speak for the others) not one of us had any idea the colossal amount of time we would be spending on this when we approached LIPS and said, “Can I help?”

(Q). Why would any pilot hand their fate & family's financial future over to such a commercial company, when the plan is neither underwritten or insured. A single successful lawsuit, or even just the cost defending decisions can deplete the entire fund.
(A). We’re a non-profit, mutual benefit fund and we exist solely to help Emirates pilots. Everyone makes their own decision on their financial future but I can tell you there’s a few SFIs at Emirates and quite a few former Emirates pilots who were damn glad they had LIPS / API when they lost their medicals. If you haven’t yet, please visit the Claims section on our website and see just how many of your former pilots we’re helping.

(Q). If Harvey Watt is making decisions, then surely legal liability should be with them, and the fund not be using pilot members' money to defend against legal action.
(A). Harvey Watt & Co. isn’t making decisions. They’re only making a recommendation.

(Q). And why are offshore API pilot 'Consultants' needed or paid, if all decisions are outsourced & fully automatic?
(A). It’s true, we have set up a system whereby the medical recommendations are handled by Harvey Watt & Co. and sent directly to the Trustee who makes the decision based on the recommendation and we did that because we looked at the Plan as it was at the time and asked, ‘what happens if we (the managers of the plan) all die at the same time because we’re in the same car going for lunch? Who’s going to take care of the pilots?’ Under the current system, were we all to be…terminally unavailable…pilots could still send their records to Harvey Watt & Co. who could make a recommendation and forward it to the Trustee. We’ve done our primary duty to the pilots.

However, and this goes to the question of why we (or someone) is needed:

What happens when Harvey Watt & Co. decide they want to re-negotiate their fee per pilot? Who is going to do that for the members? Who would Harvey Watt & Co. even contact? That same question now goes for all our service providers; there are many and they constantly change.

What else do we, the consultants, do? A short list, off the top of my head would be:

Ensure website is functioning properly. Ensure changes to the website are properly tested and validated. Ensure “Emirates” is spelled correctly, not “emma-rates”

Answer this question.

Answer over a thousand questions like this every year on all subjects.

Manage the member’s resignation from Emirates in regards to Leave Service Benefit calculations and gather the required documents from the members to present to the Trustee when it’s time to approve the LSB payment.

Track the members from their first contact with us when their medical record is suspended.

Ensure the Trustee is supplied with the proper documentation as required by the Rules. Maintain the documentation!

Ensure an Annual Report is completed. Ensure the completed Annual Report is distributed. Make a decision that in the past printing the Annual Report was expensive and generally wound up in the bins at HQ so why don’t we just direct mail and post on the website and save money.

Invest the members’ funds. However, prior to investing the members’ funds, find a way to be able to legally and safely invest the members’ funds.

Sadly, to work with the families when there has been a death of a member or spouse. To help them collect their life-insurance from a faceless insurance company.

To give daily direction to the accounting company on policy changes, website problems, data entry problems.

Track who has (and has not) joined the API Trust and send reminders.

Send payment reminders. And Final Reminders.

When a member shows us that there's something wrong in the Rules, re-write the Rules.

When we see there's something more that could be done, do it. Recently one of our beneficiaries passed away and the decision was to continue benefits payments for an additional three months to help the spouse through the process. Would a survey been the proper forum to ask the members should we do this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I doubt it.

The list goes on and on, really. Hopefully this has been helpful to you; if there’s anything else, please don’t hesitate to write.

[777-Up]

Harvey Watt are an 'administrator' designed to assist in making decisions. Who says so? Harvey Watt, here;
Harvey Watt & Co. | Licensed TPA, Group Insurance, Pilot Medical Certification Services, Claim Absence Management, Reporting Technology

According to Harvey Watt, they are the; 'Only Third Party Administrator specializing in pilots'. Their own page states they are a commercial service. They are paid to do work the plan desires.

'Administrators' are not 'decision-makers'. Unless someone, PD, deliberately sets them up to be (without first asking the pilots being served, many of whom are too busy working, to research the details).

Pilots only find out after making a claim, their entire financial future (while also dealing with sickness) is now exclusively in the hands of an unknown USA 'administrator,' thousands of miles away they can never meet.

If Members are knowingly & happily willing to be covered under such an arrangement, that's fine.

Fact is, most pilots did not enter the plan on those terms. And they've not been consulted before serious rule & claim process changes were made. They have no say in their own, non-profit plan. Why not?

[Mister Warning]

Thanks for the detailed response, Tired!
There will always be negative posters on this forum.
You guys and LIPS/API are doing a great service for the pilots and most of us are very grateful.

[Thunderbirds54321]

To really know the aircraft you fly on, the Airbus for example, you need to read level 3 notes of the FCOM.

To really know the truth about aircrewprotection international (API) and how they really operate, you need to read the comments included below the videos Risky Risky WTF and Reckless “Superman” on YouTube channel posted by deep throat


Click on ‘show more’ and ‘read more’ to see the whole comment

People say the information in the comments below the videos is free for all to see.

[777-Up]

Originally Posted by Mister Warning

There will always be negative posters on this forum.

Presenting facts from Harvey Watt's own website, isn't being negative. It's highlighting the truth.

Referring to significant changes made to API; terms, conditions, rules & claim process, without prior consultation & permission of Members falls under same.

Pilots don't appreciate unauthorised changes, whether from a company, protection plan or recreation club.

Especially if they only become aware when they claim.

Highlighting facts isn't being negative. It's being positive & proactive regarding the truth.

The solution is for Members to have an annual vote, approving who runs their own fund, and how. This is a legal requirement for such a fund in certain jurisdictions. It takes 5-minutes the way APC (a social club) do it. Nothing to be afraid of.

Unless you're a paid, overseas Consultant, fearful pilots won't approve or appreciate what you've done.

Speaking of pay, who determines how much an API Consultant gets paid from pilot member contributions? It appears the unelected, unappointed Consultant now decides his own monthly API pay. Where else does that happen? Members have no say or control over such things, that's clear.

[Lynx8]

It is all very true what 777-Up is saying.

I have enquired many things to API and I was not satisfied by their email answers...ofter signed anonymously...yes only email cause no office in DXB, no phone in DXB to talk to bla bla bla.

At the end, as per our pilot instinct, we land or go-around.

I felt uncomfortable. I went around diverting to somewhere else leaving to API full 3 years of contributions, getting back zero, but I did what my instinct said.

It was "Emirates pilots helping Emirates pilots". Now the API website says "Pilots helping pilots". Who are those pilots? Where are working those pilots? Where are nowadays living those pilots? Who appointed those pilots?
It is not was it was anymore for all the 100 reasons you guys mentioned above.

Whoever is supporting API should not be afraid to let the others disclose the truth.

If any information mentioned in this forum is not true, any guy supporting API should just proof the facts with some documentation. Otherwise just keep quite cause things have gone in the wrong direction for a very long time already...isn't it?

[Thunderbirds54321]

Research revealed Mister Warning left the company eight years ago.
(his post history on here shows so)

So why Mister Warning do you write the happy clappy praise for Superman’s purported proxy post by Tired

777-Up is absolutely correct in the points he has made, his advice is sound and to the members who now decide to heed his call to wake up!....

You all need to act sooner than later ....I note deep throat just updated comments on Risky Risky WTF

[Tiredofbeingtired]

So many people write question on Pprune why you do not just answer them and be final with them (except the one who is three or four different screen name)?

Hi there and thanks for asking. We wish more people would contact us directly instead of just talking to each other (or, in the case of that certain individual to himself and himself and himself) but it is what it is. By the way, it’s only been since never that anyone asked us why we don’t engage on Pprune. Here’s why:

1. It’s a rumor network; in fact, its name is the Professional Pilot RUmour Network. We don’t deal in rumor, we deal in fact.

2. Most of the questions aren’t questions, they’re accusations. No answer can ever satisfy the accusation; even if it did it will be ignored, glossed over or called a lie because it doesn’t fit with the narrative of the thread.

3. If we answer even one question or accusation there, if we respond just once we’ve now committed ourselves to the court of anonymous opinion and its a court of discord and disharmony; it’s attractive and compelling but it isn’t fact-based, logical, open-minded or fair and none of us have the time or desire to make that commitment on behalf of API or the membership.

4. If it was policy to answer questions on Pprune then we would have the responsibility to monitor Pprune because when questions are asked and if we didn’t respond within some arbitrary timeline we’d be skewered for being afraid to answer or ignoring the question.

5. I (for one) don’t spend time on Pprune; I only find out something’s been posted when someone sends me an email and then I may look at it, most times I don’t.

6. If we were answering questions on Pprune it would give that website credibility as a place for people to go for answers from us. Our answers are on our website. We’re contactable through our website; come ask us there. You can pick up the phone and call (as you did several weeks ago); the number’s been up there since last year.

7. If someone goes to Pprune for answers about API (or anything) they’re not really serious about the quality of the answer. When you go to your Command upgrade interview (congrats by the way and good luck), would you start any answer with, “Well, according to Pprune…”? You would only if you wanted to fail. Searching for truth or things substantive on an anonymous internet forum is the fool’s failure. I think Socrates said that first, by the way.

Sometimes, man, it’s just simply important to know things. That takes effort and a desire to raise your own level of knowledge above that of the screaming crowd. It applies to everything, whether it’s your interview or this company you’re contributing to. We put everything on our website for you and we ask you to look at it; if you don’t see what you’re looking for or don’t understand it ask us. You pay us to support you and we will, but not on Pprune.


With that out of the way, it would be naïve of us not recognize that you’re trying to give us a voice on Pprune because we won’t shout back there. While we appreciate it, it’s not necessary. The people working at API (present and past) are intelligent and honorable, each one came forward with the sole goal of serving the pilots. The guys whose lives are better because you and the rest of the membership are taking care of them are our best testimonial and our real voice. You have our thanks but you have more important things to be doing and an important milestone approaching. Study hard. Be a good Captain.

[Thunderbirds54321]

So Superman PD you’ve learnt how to type and post legible English. You do post on pprune and feel it’s ok to talk down to the hard working pilots who contribute to the aircrewprotection international fund.

Think you’ll find from now on pilot members can look after themselves and don’t need you because they are getting free legal advice on how to look after themselves.

Before you fly off or fall off can you confirm that’s you in the motorcycle stunt above without the red Superman cape ....I think you ll find it is .....

[Payscale]

I cant see on the API website who are the managers. PD doesnt ring a bell. Would you PM me who guys are?
I been with you for 5-6 years

Thanks

[777-Up]

Originally Posted by Payscale

I can't see on the API website... PD doesnt ring a bell.

See lower portion of this page, here;
http://www.aircrewprotection.org/how-api-works

[Thunderbirds54321]

Question not accusation

We all know monies ( pilots contributed money from this scheme ) are in Guernsey Channel Islands .

Anyone know why Aircrew Protection International Limited are registered in the British Virgin Islands under ‘private’ directors and shareholders ?

Why the big secret on who the owners directors and shareholders are?

This is the response received from a company search service British Virgin Islands.

‘Please note these ( the identity of the directors and shareholders ) would only be included if the company have selected to make them available at the registry which, as you can see they have not.

Please note the register of directors and shareholders is held at the registered agent of the company in the BVI, access to this would only be available if you were a director or shareholder or if you had permission from the owner of the company.”


Benefits of registering a company in BVI:

All documents and legislation are in the official business language of English.
The incorporation time for a BVI company is short and any future administration simple and cost-efficient.
A BVI company offers a high level of privacy and confidentiality.
There are no requirement to pay capital gains, inheritance taxes or death duties.
No dividends, interest or royalties are required to be paid.
Registered or bearer shares are permitted.
Only one Director and Shareholder are required. The Directors and Shareholders can be any nationality and are not required to be resident in the BVI.
There is no requirement for an annual meeting to be held. If board meetings are required they can be held anywhere in the world.
Directors can be individual or corporate bodies.
There is no requirement to register initial or ongoing changes in Directors and Shareholders.
There are lenient accounting and auditing requirements.
No foreign exchange controls exist.
Corporate bank accounts can be opened without being present at the bank.


Original source: Key Benefits of company registration in British Virgin Islands (BVI) | Eltoma

Could this be the real reason behind the vehement defensiveness of this scheme by self serving Superman and Co?

Simple answer call up the manager of the fund in Guernsey and ask for the names of registered director and owners of the fund in the British Virgin Islands

Report update 280118
The date of incorporation /registration date of Aircrew Protection International Limited in BVI was 10/03/2015