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B777 Emergency DXB

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B777 Emergency DXB

Old 18th Oct 2016, 05:30
  #321 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant
Did anyone really expect any other outcome??? I think everyone knew at some point they'd be gone.

So typical of that place....
That would be the result in most companies guys! Look what BA did with the captain of the 777 crash in LHR, and it wasn't even his fault. Or Southwest with the captain of their La Guardia accident.... all of these do have unions!
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 06:02
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EK380
That would be the result in most companies guys! Look what BA did with the captain of the 777 crash in LHR, and it wasn't even his fault. Or Southwest with the captain of their La Guardia accident.... all of these do have unions!
SWA in La Guardia? Bad example there, EK380.

However, I agree with the gist of what you're saying..
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 07:02
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Look what BA did with the captain of the 777 crash in LHR
Is that the one who was awarded the BA Safety Medal and is still a BA Captain (although he did quit by taking voluntary redundancy and was then given his job back by the Company when he asked)?
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 07:49
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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Thats him Anson, also happens to be the only DEC that BA have ever taken I believe. Only reason he quit BA in the first place was due to a long hate campaign against him, orchestrated by the vicious pilot - hating camped up cabin crew. Apparently they thought they should get all the praise for a job well done. Hyped up egotistical self important lot that they are.
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 07:49
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by anson harris
Is that the one who was awarded the BA Safety Medal and is still a BA Captain (although he did quit by taking voluntary redundancy and was then given his job back by the Company when he asked)?
That's an incredibly misleading version of the story. Thankfully it ended up ok, years later.
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 12:14
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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That's an incredibly misleading version of the story. Thankfully it ended up ok, years later.
Nevertheless, I don't think there are any inaccurate statements there? The point is, could you imagine that happening in the ME?
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Old 6th Nov 2016, 12:44
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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Not being a Boeing pilot myself, from what I read, I believe that if being a few seconds late in realising that the automation is not doing what it is supposed to do (in a very high workload manoeuvre like a balked landing in challenging wind conditions) leads to a crash, then everyone of us could have crashed in the same circumstances.

If not reading and interpreting the FMA immediately can lead to a crash like that, the system is too weak.

not pilot error. Not even human error. It can happen to anyone, except to those of you guys who are reading this and think "no way, it wouldn't have happened to me". wow I admire you , aces of the sky.
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Old 6th Nov 2016, 13:02
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Except that it's not about reading FMA or detailed procedures it's about the big picture. Power + Pitch = Performance. It could well happen to a button pusher; it shouldn't happen to a pilot.
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Old 6th Nov 2016, 13:53
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Microburst..et al

Not being a Boeing pilot myself, from what I read, I believe that if being a few seconds late in realising that the automation is not doing what it is supposed to do (in a very high workload manoeuvre like a balked landing in challenging wind conditions) leads to a crash, then everyone of us could have crashed in the same circumstances.
That is a crock pure and simple. An aeroplane is an aeroplane, the 777 is a big C172, a baulked landing isn't a high workload situation if you ARE flying the aeroplane, it's merely a natural manoeuvre carried out in response to the circumstances.
All this workload BS is predicated on the slavish adherence to SOPs..FMAs, automation blah blah blah. IF all that was done was pushing the power up they would have flown away fat dumb and happy, and would have had plenty of time to debate the rest later.
When are we as a group of pilots going to cut through the chaff created by training Dept sim warriors, Safety managers and non flying technocrats who will never understand or embrace that you must fly the aeroplane FIRST, everything else is merely the crap that makes and drives some to feel overloaded when the simplicity of the solution is basic flying.
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Old 6th Nov 2016, 16:47
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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What he said😉
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Old 6th Nov 2016, 17:31
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Surely, the list learning, CBT trained, magenta line following generation have done enough damage. Sully lands a badly damaged bus on a river perfectly, so landing a fully serviceable triple on an actual runway shouldn't be too much of a challenge.
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Old 7th Nov 2016, 03:58
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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hec7or -
Sully lands a badly damaged bus on a river perfectly,
Not really a fair comparison, as there haven't been many dead stick river landings.

Whilst acknowledging Sully did a magnificent job, he still let the speed decay into the stall protection regime and the flight control laws stopped the aircraft from stalling.
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Old 7th Nov 2016, 04:18
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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That would never happen on the Boeing. Both yokes and the throttles move.
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Old 7th Nov 2016, 05:15
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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Don
Moot point if there's no thrust to control!

Rex
Thread creep but at what point did the stall protection work? Haven't read the report but I assumed degraded Flt Ctl law so Alt 1 or 2 or even Direct law.
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Old 7th Nov 2016, 05:33
  #335 (permalink)  
 
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MacSheik - Thread creep acknowledged -

Fromt the NTSB report -

2.7.2 High-AOA Envelope Limitations
The airplane’s airspeed in the last 150 feet of the descent was low enough to activate the alpha-protection mode of the airplane’s fly-by-wire envelope protection features. The captain progressively pulled aft on the sidestick as the airplane descended below 100 feet, and he pulled the sidestick to its aft stop in the last 50 feet, indicating that he was attempting to raise the airplane nose to flare and soften the touchdown on the water. The A320 alpha-protection mode incorporates features that can attenuate pilot sidestick pitch inputs. Because of these features, the
97
NTSB Aircraft Accident Report
airplane could not reach the maximum AOA attainable in pitch normal law for the airplane weight and configuration; however, the airplane did provide maximum performance for the weight and configuration at that time.
The Airbus simulation indicated that the captain’s aft sidestick inputs in the last 50 feet of the flight were attenuated, limiting the ANU response of the airplane even though about 3.5° of margin existed between the airplane’s AOA at touchdown (between 13° and 14°) and the maximum AOA for this airplane weight and configuration (17.5°). Airbus’ training curricula does not contain information on the effects of alpha-protection mode features that might affect the airplane’s response to pilot sidestick pitch inputs. The flight envelope protections allowed the captain to pull full aft on the sidestick without the risk of stalling the airplane.

also

However, FDR data indicated that the airplane was below green dot speed and at VLS or slightly less for most of the descent, and
about 15 to 19 knots below VLS during the last 200 feet.
The NTSB concludes that the captain’s difficulty maintaining his intended airspeed during the final approach resulted in high AOAs, which contributed to the difficulties in flaring the airplane, the high descent rate at touchdown, and the fuselage damage. (See additional discussion in section 2.7.1.)
During emergency situations, such as the accident event, pilots experience high levels of stress resulting from high workload, time pressure, and noise. Stress can distract pilots from cockpit duties and result in pilot errors or performance degradation.
I do agree though , that Sully was under a bit more stress than doing a go around in Dubai.
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Old 7th Nov 2016, 10:53
  #336 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Rex,
Figure I'd have been pulling through the aft stop too!
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Old 28th Mar 2017, 21:01
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone got any idea what happened to the pilots?
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 08:08
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Joker11
Anyone got any idea what happened to the pilots?
Post #323 is not true he was asked to resign before the final report so he can keep his full end of service ,,, not retirement for him
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 06:45
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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Just a little over twelve months. Any news? Any remedial?
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 13:44
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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The prelim report came out on 6/9/16 and was pretty detailed. Available online.

Full reports can take up to two years. I've heard it's coming in November.


Remedial training of GA after touchdown done in last phase. From colleagues at other airlines on Boeing heavies - was the hot topic also in their training due 521.

Last edited by fliion; 5th Aug 2017 at 14:36.
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