B777 Emergency DXB
Over the years I have had dozens of pilots who are religious FMA callers, fail to understand what the autopilot is doing. As a very subjective opinion, I have found that those most hard wired to the FMA and SOP's have the least awareness
EKs SOPs have evolved from an Airbus bias, the concept of a quiet dark cockpit doesn't apply here, Every other Boeing I've operated was based on verifying but not calling unless it's not what you expected.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: o.b
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can we not agree that both things are important? Maybe an FMA call out will alert you to trouble on one day and perhaps on the next, attitude and power will be your savior.
It is enlightening to learn that since I do call FMAs, I am one of those pilots with lower levels of awareness...
It is enlightening to learn that since I do call FMAs, I am one of those pilots with lower levels of awareness...
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Monrovia / Liberia
Age: 63
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAY IT; DO IT; SEE IT
Fwiw, I've flown in airlines that announce FMA changes, and also other airlines where FMA changes are not announced (that is unless a FMA mode change is not going as expected).
My personal preference is for a silent flightdeck, i.e. with callouts only being made when the FMA mode change is not as expected, though that of course assumes that you know what the FMA should be annunciating, as & when modes are changing?!
Wrt go-arounds I have always instructed the following 'technique' :
SAY IT = Call "Go Around; Flap <your aircraft's go-around flap setting>" (that is unless you're in Windshear, in which case leave the flaps where they are)
DO IT = Click the TOGA button / paddle-switch and advance the thrust levers with your hand (do NOT rely on the autothrottle, even if it's engaged)
SEE IT = Check that the FMA says 'TOGA' and that the engine thrust is set to 'GA' power (or something appropriate)
If you do nothing more than those 3 basic items above then you stand a very strong chance of climbing safely away back into the sky. The rest (gear retraction, roll mode, acceleration) all following as a matter of course.
It's not difficult, but some people really like to make it so.
My personal preference is for a silent flightdeck, i.e. with callouts only being made when the FMA mode change is not as expected, though that of course assumes that you know what the FMA should be annunciating, as & when modes are changing?!
Wrt go-arounds I have always instructed the following 'technique' :
SAY IT = Call "Go Around; Flap <your aircraft's go-around flap setting>" (that is unless you're in Windshear, in which case leave the flaps where they are)
DO IT = Click the TOGA button / paddle-switch and advance the thrust levers with your hand (do NOT rely on the autothrottle, even if it's engaged)
SEE IT = Check that the FMA says 'TOGA' and that the engine thrust is set to 'GA' power (or something appropriate)
If you do nothing more than those 3 basic items above then you stand a very strong chance of climbing safely away back into the sky. The rest (gear retraction, roll mode, acceleration) all following as a matter of course.
It's not difficult, but some people really like to make it so.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OKC
100%!! Too much emphasis at times placed on repeating by rote without actually checking the aircraft is doing what we say (think) it's doing. There should never be a hurry to retract the gear. Slow things down, fly the plane, do the basics, build up from there. Forget the radio until the plane is doing what you want it to do. We talk about Aviate, Navigate, Communicate (in that order), then throw it all out the window when startled!
Only practical and resilient training can help reduce accidents like this repeating themselves.
Harry
100%!! Too much emphasis at times placed on repeating by rote without actually checking the aircraft is doing what we say (think) it's doing. There should never be a hurry to retract the gear. Slow things down, fly the plane, do the basics, build up from there. Forget the radio until the plane is doing what you want it to do. We talk about Aviate, Navigate, Communicate (in that order), then throw it all out the window when startled!
Only practical and resilient training can help reduce accidents like this repeating themselves.
Harry
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fatbus
Yes, to some extent I agree but I do think it's also very much dependent on the airline's culture. Is it a culture which encourages airmanship and has the confidence in management to overlook minor SOP deviation's if the outcome is good and the overall performance is credible, i.e., big picture stuff, or is it one where even minor errors are highlighted, de briefed and written up? If it is the latter, is it any wonder that a newer generation of pilots will place their faith and trust in a system (machine & SOPs) that's inherently reliable and thus follow rules almost blindly! 30-40 years ago, higher failure rates brought with it a commensurate dose of suspicion. Today's reliable technology replaces that suspicion with complacency!
To prove my point, come down a little earlier next time in the hotel and place a few suitcases in a line that will eventually block an exit or through fare. Would you be at all surprised if I told you the cabin crew will continue to place their cases, line abreast as per SOP, until no hotel guests or staff can get by?
Following rules blindly is an art form in some Companies!
Harry
Yes, to some extent I agree but I do think it's also very much dependent on the airline's culture. Is it a culture which encourages airmanship and has the confidence in management to overlook minor SOP deviation's if the outcome is good and the overall performance is credible, i.e., big picture stuff, or is it one where even minor errors are highlighted, de briefed and written up? If it is the latter, is it any wonder that a newer generation of pilots will place their faith and trust in a system (machine & SOPs) that's inherently reliable and thus follow rules almost blindly! 30-40 years ago, higher failure rates brought with it a commensurate dose of suspicion. Today's reliable technology replaces that suspicion with complacency!
To prove my point, come down a little earlier next time in the hotel and place a few suitcases in a line that will eventually block an exit or through fare. Would you be at all surprised if I told you the cabin crew will continue to place their cases, line abreast as per SOP, until no hotel guests or staff can get by?
Following rules blindly is an art form in some Companies!
Harry
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Harry, please tell me you aren't that idiot that 'audits' our crew suitcases and writes ASRs? Such as their unacceptable location at outstations, hotels and how many locks were locked on each one on each leg of the trip?!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Criss crossing the Arabian Sea
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HA! I saw that 2 days ago. The CC lined up their suitcases very neatly in a row......right across a walkway leading to the elevators.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not a DXB culture. Observe any Asian airline in crew hotels anywhere do the exact same thing. I was amused at Harry's comments because I watched a CX crew do precisely the same thing yesterday. Zero SA.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is much easier for a pilot's brain to look at the Pitch, the N1, at the speed tape and the VSI/ALT to understand what the airplane is doing instead of calling out some "obscure " FMA readouts
Yup, a lot of advice out there. As always, some good, some not so good... The grizzled veteran set are not wrong in saying that piloting instincts are always correct - pitch, power etc....However, modern aeroplanes with hi tech flight decks have FMA's for a reason. The FMA is the real reflection of the aircraft actual performance and if your sop (EK) says call it, I really would. A happy compromise is normally the way forward: of course know pitch attitudes and power settings, a good pro should. However FMA adherence coupled with callouts is key in modern, automated aircraft. Airbus hammer this point home but in my very humble opinion having flown both sides of the divide, equally so on modern Boeings.
Of course you call the FMA--but first you fly! The calls are absolutely useless if you can't fly the airplane.