FZ 981 crashes in Rostov on Don Russia
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Someone seems to be scared
After the lates E Mail from STC,
looks like they are scared of leaking information.
Is there something to hide?
@ infreedom
maybe your excellent post has something to do with that?
Quote STC:
please avoid posting any insensitive information on our internal or external social media channels. If you have any serious concerns, please write to me ..
looks like they are scared of leaking information.
Is there something to hide?
@ infreedom
maybe your excellent post has something to do with that?
Quote STC:
please avoid posting any insensitive information on our internal or external social media channels. If you have any serious concerns, please write to me ..
To be fair Talparc, the email from STC is exactly what I would expect from any sitting CEO in a situation such as this, it is in my estimation nothing other than a request for a bit of discretion at a sensitive time.
In respect of this accident I'm sure that every aspect will be thoroughly investigated, including the crews rosters and previous experience.
RIP to all those unfortunate souls.
In respect of this accident I'm sure that every aspect will be thoroughly investigated, including the crews rosters and previous experience.
RIP to all those unfortunate souls.
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I agree with Monarch Man, he has not asked people to avoid posting sensitive information (ie secrets) but insensitive information which might upset the families involved. Seems reasonable to me, but he'd better not look at Rumours and News.....
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As a frequent flyer and not a pilot, my question is: Why circle a 737-8 for 2 hours instead of diverting?
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Careful guys, this is a public forum.
Second guessing what the crew did or did not do, is a place you do not want to go.
TC and Fly Dubai management have done a good job so far, remember, this is the first time for them.
Second guessing what the crew did or did not do, is a place you do not want to go.
TC and Fly Dubai management have done a good job so far, remember, this is the first time for them.
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To the pilots of Fly Dubai,
If you feel that there are issues which violate safe flying practices then you owe it to yourselves, your family, the people and the families of those who suffered losses in this tragic event, to report any shortcomings to the appropriate channels. Otherwise this will continue.
Speculation on this or any other forum would be inappropriate at this time.
If you feel that there are issues which violate safe flying practices then you owe it to yourselves, your family, the people and the families of those who suffered losses in this tragic event, to report any shortcomings to the appropriate channels. Otherwise this will continue.
Speculation on this or any other forum would be inappropriate at this time.
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I honestly don't think that making specific anonymous statements here about FD would be the most appropriate thing to do. If you feel strongly about an issue then there must be more appropriate channels through which to communicate your concerns. However, I had a "diversion" after a prolonged hold a few years back. I thought it might be sensible to share my experience in the hope that all fellow airmen never feel any pressure but to do what you think is most correct for the safest outcome of such a situation. I am certainly not implying that this fatal tragedy was the result of running out of fuel or that management pressures prevented a diversion. The reason I am writing this is to help encourage others to think about what they would do if they found themselves in a similar situation and what their decision and outcome would be.
As an M/E pilot of well over a decade (operating under the same GCAA) some years ago, I was called via SATCOM by the company and advised not to divert to my best "considered" diversion option after I informed the company via ACARS. Of course, time and fuel was not on my side and my decision to direct the aircraft to "my chosen" point of landing was well thought through and the safest thing to do, even if not commercially the best option for the company.
I was subsequently called in to explain my thoughts and actions throughout the flight at critical stages which I subsequently did. I was just above minimum fuel, under time pressure as well as "other pressures" and did what I had to do as a pilot to get the aircraft safely onto the ground.
This is not just the ME operations, it is global commercial pressure on pilots to keep the show in the road. Company's are always stressing that the first priority is SAFETY, as a pilot of over 30 years flying experience, I would suggest that this isn't always so.
We as pilots are the ones who direct the aircraft when it is under our control, us, just us in the cockpit, no one else has the final say or ability to do otherwise. Information from the company operations is just that, information and certainly not orders. No one in an office can ever be fully aware of a developing situation in a cockpit the way the trained professionals can. Seek advice and let it be that, we as pilots know what's best for the aircraft as we are staking our own life on the outcome of our actions. Always do what YOU think is the right thing to do at all times and then debrief the outcome subsequently if needs be.
Fly safe and once again a very very sad trajedy. BBC reporting the CVR and Black Box might be too damaged to be useful. I certainly hope that lessons can be learnt from this sad loss to help prevent further hardship.
J
As an M/E pilot of well over a decade (operating under the same GCAA) some years ago, I was called via SATCOM by the company and advised not to divert to my best "considered" diversion option after I informed the company via ACARS. Of course, time and fuel was not on my side and my decision to direct the aircraft to "my chosen" point of landing was well thought through and the safest thing to do, even if not commercially the best option for the company.
I was subsequently called in to explain my thoughts and actions throughout the flight at critical stages which I subsequently did. I was just above minimum fuel, under time pressure as well as "other pressures" and did what I had to do as a pilot to get the aircraft safely onto the ground.
This is not just the ME operations, it is global commercial pressure on pilots to keep the show in the road. Company's are always stressing that the first priority is SAFETY, as a pilot of over 30 years flying experience, I would suggest that this isn't always so.
We as pilots are the ones who direct the aircraft when it is under our control, us, just us in the cockpit, no one else has the final say or ability to do otherwise. Information from the company operations is just that, information and certainly not orders. No one in an office can ever be fully aware of a developing situation in a cockpit the way the trained professionals can. Seek advice and let it be that, we as pilots know what's best for the aircraft as we are staking our own life on the outcome of our actions. Always do what YOU think is the right thing to do at all times and then debrief the outcome subsequently if needs be.
Fly safe and once again a very very sad trajedy. BBC reporting the CVR and Black Box might be too damaged to be useful. I certainly hope that lessons can be learnt from this sad loss to help prevent further hardship.
J
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notapilot,
Yes it is sad, but it is always the same, blame the pilots, especially when they are not able to defend themselves.
I expect the talking heads who have to fill the void of when there is no information to "speculate" and it is always easiest to blame the pilots, unless the reason is totally obvious like the shoot down of MH17.
There is a good book about an accident at my old airline, "The mystery of flight 427: inside a crash investigation" by Bill Adair.
It is about the rudder handover problem that the B737 had and to what lengths Boeing went to put the blame on pilot error, after years of pilots from my old airline and ALPA (the Union), the truth about the rudder problem was proven.
All parties involved in this accident will now circle the wagons and try as hard as they can to put the blame on any other party to protect their interests, it will become very brutal.
As far a I can see, there is no group to protect the pilots, one of the problems in this part of the world of no unions. That is why I keep saying not to second guess the crew and add to the void.
If anyone knows who will be representing the pilots besides FZ/EK, please let me know.
Yes it is sad, but it is always the same, blame the pilots, especially when they are not able to defend themselves.
I expect the talking heads who have to fill the void of when there is no information to "speculate" and it is always easiest to blame the pilots, unless the reason is totally obvious like the shoot down of MH17.
There is a good book about an accident at my old airline, "The mystery of flight 427: inside a crash investigation" by Bill Adair.
It is about the rudder handover problem that the B737 had and to what lengths Boeing went to put the blame on pilot error, after years of pilots from my old airline and ALPA (the Union), the truth about the rudder problem was proven.
All parties involved in this accident will now circle the wagons and try as hard as they can to put the blame on any other party to protect their interests, it will become very brutal.
As far a I can see, there is no group to protect the pilots, one of the problems in this part of the world of no unions. That is why I keep saying not to second guess the crew and add to the void.
If anyone knows who will be representing the pilots besides FZ/EK, please let me know.
Last edited by north flyer; 21st Mar 2016 at 18:59.
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notapilot,
Yes it is sad, but it is always the same, blame the pilots, especially when they are not able to defend themselves.
As far a I can see, there is no group to protect the pilots, one of the problems in this part of the world of no unions. That is why I keep saying not to second guess the crew and add to the void.
If anyone knows who will be representing the pilots besides FZ/EK, please let me know.
Yes it is sad, but it is always the same, blame the pilots, especially when they are not able to defend themselves.
As far a I can see, there is no group to protect the pilots, one of the problems in this part of the world of no unions. That is why I keep saying not to second guess the crew and add to the void.
If anyone knows who will be representing the pilots besides FZ/EK, please let me know.
God help their families find some way to cope with this terrible tragedy.
Masalama😞
Very sad day for UAE aviation. RIP to the crew.
j/s - it is not strictly a global phenomenon to be 'told' where to divert. My previous airline - British, unionised and evolved in terms of industrial issues. As captain if you diverted you went where you decided was optimum using whatever DM model that suited the situation. As I remember no commercial pressure but an expectation to make a sensible decision. You were not required to liase or ask for advice. I agree: no speculation from me here on the catastrophe in Rostov. Let's see what transpires with the investigation. Tragic nevertheless.
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Glider 7, #50
A very telling post from the inside and frankly not surprising. I have seen the FO's roster. Not good. The airline will likely turn a blind eye and try to focus elsewhere, but its likely to be a significant part of the swiss cheese. I hope the real truth and all the factors are told whatever they might be. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
A very telling post from the inside and frankly not surprising. I have seen the FO's roster. Not good. The airline will likely turn a blind eye and try to focus elsewhere, but its likely to be a significant part of the swiss cheese. I hope the real truth and all the factors are told whatever they might be. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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To be fair Talparc, the email from STC is exactly what I would expect from any sitting CEO in a situation such as this, it is in my estimation nothing other than a request for a bit of discretion at a sensitive time.
In respect of this accident I'm sure that every aspect will be thoroughly investigated, including the crews rosters and previous experience.
Unfortunately i have very closely witnessed a fatal accident some time ago and the final report and findings were very revealing and disappointing to insiders.
Industry and political/national interests are well protected, believe me, and i am talking about a place in the western hemisphere.
Here we talk about two involved nations with a quite different attitude towards the truth ......
Last edited by glofish; 22nd Mar 2016 at 08:01.
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https://www.rt.com/news/336514-flydu...fatigue-crash/
It seems an ex flydubai Captain spilled the beans..?
It seems an ex flydubai Captain spilled the beans..?