FZ 981 crashes in Rostov on Don Russia
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This is the exact same scenario as the Tarastan Airlines 737 crash in 2103. Almost exactly the same flight profile.
That's great recceguy, but what you have experienced/ been able to achieve isn't a benchmark for International Air Transport Safety 'going forward'.
You had your time in the Herc and that is great, you received ongoing military training ( as did I but that is irrelevant) and now fly commercial aircraft to a very high standard I am sure........but how does that prevent accidents like this occurring in the future?
Most people who have flown for more than a few years understand that somotogravic illusion is a phenomenon that does occur and is usually dealt with in an appropriate manner due to well trained and rested crews.
What many in the industry are worried about right now is that rostering practices have developed to a point where crew are so tired/fatigued that they are less likely to be able to effectively deal with situations such as FZ981 due to slower mental processing. Even perhaps that crews unwittingly create situations such as FZ981 due to slower mental processing.
Your exceptional flying abilities don't really offer any solutions to the problems we are discussing.
You had your time in the Herc and that is great, you received ongoing military training ( as did I but that is irrelevant) and now fly commercial aircraft to a very high standard I am sure........but how does that prevent accidents like this occurring in the future?
Most people who have flown for more than a few years understand that somotogravic illusion is a phenomenon that does occur and is usually dealt with in an appropriate manner due to well trained and rested crews.
What many in the industry are worried about right now is that rostering practices have developed to a point where crew are so tired/fatigued that they are less likely to be able to effectively deal with situations such as FZ981 due to slower mental processing. Even perhaps that crews unwittingly create situations such as FZ981 due to slower mental processing.
Your exceptional flying abilities don't really offer any solutions to the problems we are discussing.
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Tell me, how many barrel rolls did you do in the clouds, flying on instruments ?
I spent my time trying to stay the right way up and making sure the jet's performance was limited appropriately by its weakest link.......me!
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Harry, I did say that sims use somatogravic illusion, not that it trains pilots how to combat it. But since they use it, they could easily be given an alternate motion algorithm to produce the effect, or you could just turn the motion off to screw with experienced pilots' senses. Frankly, the sim make me feel drunk for the first hour because of the motion, especially taxying.
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Recce, are your posts intended as anything more than bragging of what you claim to have flown? I stress claim, because most who have done that don't feel the insecurity to have to brag about it. Certainly your assertion that pilots can't suffer somatogravic illusion in a modern airliner suggests you have never flown anything at all - all pilots are likely to get the leans from time to time, some more than others. Aggressive manouvering shakes up the otoliths and vestibular canals and actually reduces the illusion, so much so that the doctors at North Luffenham would tech military pilots that momentarily shaking their head vigourously would "reset" them and clear the illusion. If you'd done it, you'd know that.
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Sciolistes I did look again, and other than the fact that Tarastan 737 only made it to 700m whereas the Fly Dubai 737 made it to 1500m, I stick with my contention that the profiles are pretty much exactly the same.
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According to the FR24 data, FZ981 had pretty much completed the go-around manoeuvre when the upset occurred. You can see from the ground speed, the airspeed would have been around clean speed, if not more. There is absolutely no evidence in that data of low speeds, nor a stall, just a sudden and extreme nose over.
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You speak like the expert. Tell me, how many barrel rolls did you do in the clouds, flying on instruments ? how much close formation also in the clouds, turning and descending, crossing cloud layers, day or night ? how much low level out at sea - 150 ft, 500 ft - with a gray horizon, turning at 60° bank without climbing ? how many desert landings at night with NVG ? how many loops just after take-off ? so who talks about vertigoes and illusions ?
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230 kph is equivalent to approx 124 kts . If (and I don't know ) the Ac is in clean configuration 124 kts and 25 deg nose up is a low speed condition However . 230 kph references ground speed .. So depending on the wind at 700 m ias could be more or less than 124 kts ..
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That graphic above is not the FZ981 profile, that is the Tarastan. FZ981 reached a ground speed of 185kts at the point of the upset, taking into account the headwind, this would be around clean speed, nowhere near 1g stall speed in any configuration.
Last edited by Sciolistes; 11th Apr 2016 at 09:41.
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The correct link to the above URL is: http://www.caa.co.za/Aviation%20Medi...rientation.pdf
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ekpilot
Yes, wasn't that what I said in my last sentence?
That's just the point. Regardless of training and how good your normal levels of situational awareness are, if you're very tired or fatigued, the ability to cognitively process this information, along with acute stress, makes the task very difficult. I'm sure most, if not all of us have found ourselves in a situation that went from fairly benign to seriously threatening in a very short space of time.
Definitely a 'I learned from that moment' type of experience. Most of us are lucky to be able to walk away from them.
Harry
Yes, wasn't that what I said in my last sentence?
That's just the point. Regardless of training and how good your normal levels of situational awareness are, if you're very tired or fatigued, the ability to cognitively process this information, along with acute stress, makes the task very difficult. I'm sure most, if not all of us have found ourselves in a situation that went from fairly benign to seriously threatening in a very short space of time.
Definitely a 'I learned from that moment' type of experience. Most of us are lucky to be able to walk away from them.
Harry
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An Illusion caused the accident:
An Illusion Made FlyDubai Pilots Crash Their Plane Into the Ground
An Illusion Made FlyDubai Pilots Crash Their Plane Into the Ground