Emirates. Not that bad, surely?
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How times have changed when cadets, not even holding a freshly minted ATPL, are at the stage where they are Emirates hopefuls.
Things have certainly changed and those posts prove it.
Things have certainly changed and those posts prove it.
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Exactly that, Tango.
Unfortunately, Emirates (and most other airlines, to be fair) are run by HR bean counters who are entirely focussed on chasing this years results, cost cutting target and bonus payment.
There is therefore no difference as far as they are concerned between a 1500 hour ATPL pilot and a 20000 hour ATPL pilot. Same licence and each can only produce 900 factored hours a year towards the bottom line. You and I know that is a very dangerous policy to follow but, hey, its legal.
I have nothing against inexperience at all, we were all there once, but if you lower the recruitment experience bar as much as Emirates has (rather than increase terms and conditions to maintain experience levels) then not only are there reduced experience levels coming into the airline but the decreasing terms, conditions and qol drive many experienced pilots (and many not so experienced too) out of the company.
When incidents then happen on the line the management fix is to penalise the entire remaining workforce with no notice line checks, etc etc rather than deal with individuals in a fair and just manner - thereby driving yet more experience out of the company.
We currently have 12 B777 parked at DWC but even with this reduction in capacity, crewing are constantly calling pilots who are on days off to ask if they will give up their day off and fly.
Factor in the ongoing evictions throughout DSO and the introduction of GST in a couple of months time and I can see things getting a whole lot worse if Emirates management does not alter course.
Unfortunately, Emirates (and most other airlines, to be fair) are run by HR bean counters who are entirely focussed on chasing this years results, cost cutting target and bonus payment.
There is therefore no difference as far as they are concerned between a 1500 hour ATPL pilot and a 20000 hour ATPL pilot. Same licence and each can only produce 900 factored hours a year towards the bottom line. You and I know that is a very dangerous policy to follow but, hey, its legal.
I have nothing against inexperience at all, we were all there once, but if you lower the recruitment experience bar as much as Emirates has (rather than increase terms and conditions to maintain experience levels) then not only are there reduced experience levels coming into the airline but the decreasing terms, conditions and qol drive many experienced pilots (and many not so experienced too) out of the company.
When incidents then happen on the line the management fix is to penalise the entire remaining workforce with no notice line checks, etc etc rather than deal with individuals in a fair and just manner - thereby driving yet more experience out of the company.
We currently have 12 B777 parked at DWC but even with this reduction in capacity, crewing are constantly calling pilots who are on days off to ask if they will give up their day off and fly.
Factor in the ongoing evictions throughout DSO and the introduction of GST in a couple of months time and I can see things getting a whole lot worse if Emirates management does not alter course.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 1st Nov 2017 at 21:19.
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I am generally pretty close to the legal limits these days with regard to 1 in 7 and 2 in 14. I would rarely be able to give up a day off and fly legally. With so many aircraft grounded and yet pilots flying so much and close to limits, it begs the question as to what would happen if they suddenly needed these aircraft to fly again.
When things are not working then you need to do something about it and change. That's why pilots are leaving. To stop the attrition the other side of the equation, EK, needs to change or we continue the downward spiral.
When things are not working then you need to do something about it and change. That's why pilots are leaving. To stop the attrition the other side of the equation, EK, needs to change or we continue the downward spiral.
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Just applied to emirates
So guys, little help here, I applied a week ago and oh boy were they fast in reacting. They called me early in the morning. I have about 5 K hours, still a rightseater on 320s. I mainly want the wide body experience and get the upgrade there hopefully. To date, I don’t know anything about Emirates. It was on a whim I applied and they have been frantic. I didn’t do the video interview. They said it s ok, we ll fast track you. Now I have got all this scary package of assessment process. I feel like a test subject. I was on upgrade tract but things seem to have slowed down for now and I was thinking instead of waiting another 5 years or so to fly wide body, I could go to them gulf companies to fly more on the right and eventually get the left seat proper. Now I am not so sure. I see so many negative posts, I think I am gonna continue my semi-miserable f/o life here, things will turn up hopefully and I ll get an upgrade.
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So guys, little help here, I applied a week ago and oh boy were they fast in reacting. They called me early in the morning. I have about 5 K hours, still a rightseater on 320s. I mainly want the wide body experience and get the upgrade there hopefully. To date, I don’t know anything about Emirates. It was on a whim I applied and they have been frantic. I didn’t do the video interview. They said it s ok, we ll fast track you. Now I have got all this scary package of assessment process. I feel like a test subject. I was on upgrade tract but things seem to have slowed down for now and I was thinking instead of waiting another 5 years or so to fly wide body, I could go to them gulf companies to fly more on the right and eventually get the left seat proper. Now I am not so sure. I see so many negative posts, I think I am gonna continue my semi-miserable f/o life here, things will turn up hopefully and I ll get an upgrade.
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So guys, little help here, I applied a week ago and oh boy were they fast in reacting. They called me early in the morning. I have about 5 K hours, still a rightseater on 320s. I mainly want the wide body experience and get the upgrade there hopefully. To date, I don’t know anything about Emirates. It was on a whim I applied and they have been frantic. I didn’t do the video interview. They said it s ok, we ll fast track you. Now I have got all this scary package of assessment process. I feel like a test subject. I was on upgrade tract but things seem to have slowed down for now and I was thinking instead of waiting another 5 years or so to fly wide body, I could go to them gulf companies to fly more on the right and eventually get the left seat proper. Now I am not so sure. I see so many negative posts, I think I am gonna continue my semi-miserable f/o life here, things will turn up hopefully and I ll get an upgrade.
What I suggest you is do what you think is the best for your family or carrier or whatever is your top priority
Don’t do it base in pprune comments, in 30 years I herd ALWAYS people complaining for somthing
Maybe the same people that before joining were flying for couple of thousand dollars on shi..ti planes in shi..ti places
Take all this as info then make your choise
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No offence viper but why did you apply if you don't know anything about EK? People coming in here blind is half the reason the place is such a disaster now.
Anyway.... come and do the interview, why not? You'll get a free 4 day trip to DXB. See if you like it. Then go home, you will have about 2-4 weeks to think about it before you get a YES or NO e-mail anyway. So plenty of time to discuss with the wife or whatever.
Good luck
Anyway.... come and do the interview, why not? You'll get a free 4 day trip to DXB. See if you like it. Then go home, you will have about 2-4 weeks to think about it before you get a YES or NO e-mail anyway. So plenty of time to discuss with the wife or whatever.
Good luck
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Moving to the Middle East “IS NOT” only a career change, “IT IS” a lifestyle change for the whole family.
Be aware that if the family are not happy with moving here then your career move will be a bad choice as you will return to your country, perhaps in a worse place than where you left with a family who are now less settled everywhere.
It’s not just you and your career, it’s the culture, education and happiness of your family you have to consider the most. For those without family’s, there are plenty of unattached girls here but then you are potentially locking yourself here for 10 plus years to get your command and potentially a foreign wife with added complications.
Moving to the ME should be your primary consideration and flying the Big shiny stuff second. As an Airbus pilot it is very likely you would end up on the 777 at this time.
Why have EK jumped at your application, that is an answer you have to answer and understand why you are not in a long queue of applicants.
Good weekend to all
J
Be aware that if the family are not happy with moving here then your career move will be a bad choice as you will return to your country, perhaps in a worse place than where you left with a family who are now less settled everywhere.
It’s not just you and your career, it’s the culture, education and happiness of your family you have to consider the most. For those without family’s, there are plenty of unattached girls here but then you are potentially locking yourself here for 10 plus years to get your command and potentially a foreign wife with added complications.
Moving to the ME should be your primary consideration and flying the Big shiny stuff second. As an Airbus pilot it is very likely you would end up on the 777 at this time.
Why have EK jumped at your application, that is an answer you have to answer and understand why you are not in a long queue of applicants.
Good weekend to all
J
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Originally Posted by jack schidt
As an Airbus pilot it is very likely you would end up on the 777 at this time.
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Almost right, mmmbop, old chum 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG0ochx16Dg
But well put, nevertheless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG0ochx16Dg
But well put, nevertheless
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I have recently been asked via Private Message if EK is really as bad as it is painted on these pages. Surely people exaggerate or even make things up for their own nefarious ends? It can't be possible for a major international airline- and wannabe major international brand- to behave in such an uncaring and cavalier fashion towards its employees. Can it?
Well, I have plenty of time to write a reply at the moment as I'm on a flight back to Dubai from my home country. I had six days off in a row, which is a reasonably rare event but not unheard of, so I went home for four days. I got downgraded to economy on the way out, despite having a waitlisted ID50 for business class. On the way back there was only one flight in two days where I was fairly confident I would get on at all and this is a destination with three flights per day. This is in late February, not school or public holiday time. Here is the first lesson- do not think it is easy to use staff travel when you do get days off especially with low seniority. Flights are very often full and, especially travelling with a family, it will be a stressful experience. It also starts to get expensive very quickly. Even ID90s are far from free.
More observant readers will have noticed that, although I had six days off, I only went home for four. This is because after my days off I am rostered for an ultra long haul flight and the company demands that I be back in Dubai for three full nights before such a duty. It is very common to have such flights rostered after a block of days off and it can often completely prevent travel. It is worth mentioning that the majority of pilots I have spoken too believe that the company's interpretation of the flight time limitations is not correct and there is no legal need to be in Dubai so early. However, only the company's interpretation matters and it is not negotiable. This is lesson two- having days off does not mean you are free of the demands of the company. It is also worth mentioning at this point that the company, being a government entity, does not have to follow any employment laws. Even in Dubai, where the employment laws tend to be biased in favour of employers, that is worth having a good think about but before you sign up.
My wife decided to stay at home for a couple of weeks. Or possibly months. As she pointed out, I am only actually in Dubai for 12 “useful” days in March. “Useful” means days when I have not just got back from a long flight at 6am and am either in bed or exhausted for the rest of the day. I am flying 100 hours in March and the last three months have all been between 95 and 105, with a similar number of days in Dubai. Not surprisingly my spouse is getting sick of effectively living on her own as I am often away for five or six days at a time. Everyone's marriage is different and I leave it up to you to speculate on the effect living like this is likely to have on yours. Lesson three. The job is a marriage wrecker. The irony is a lot of people bring their families to Dubai for a better life, then never see them. Or the wife gets sick of being a one parent family and goes back home. With your children. You will see them even less then- see lesson 1.
I actually did relatively well for leave this year and got some of what I wanted. However, I still have 7 days of “forced leave” allocated by the company at a time of year I certainly wouldn't have chosen. This 7 day block finishes only three weeks before a period of leave I actually asked for. I have no doubt, based on past experience, that I will be flying for 90 hours during the month when I have this week “off”. As that is almost a normal month's roster the leave is actually only the days off for the month compressed together. Lesson four and five- you don't choose when your holiday is, the company does and it isn't really holiday at all as you still do the same amount of work that month. Working here, you are tired and jet lagged. Constantly.
When I joined Emirates, just over a decade ago, I left a secure job at a reputable European airline. Indeed, I was just coming up for my wide body command there. Nobody I spoke to at the time, either inside or outside Emirates, thought it was a bad idea. This was one of the best jobs to have in aviation in terms of both lifestyle and salary. Indeed some people in my previous company were positively envious. Now, I doubt any pilot inside Emirates would give an unqualified yes to the question, “Should I apply?”
The sixth and final (for now) lesson. If you join today the terms and conditions you experience will be the best you will get for your time here. In ten plus years I can't think of anything I could honestly say has improved. Other posts have mentioned the rampant inflation (and, coming soon, VAT- for an instant 5% pay cut) and the difficulty of saving on an F/O salary.
So there you go. No, we aren't making it up. Almost all of the posts are true and when somebody does post something that is completely wrong somebody else will correct it pretty quickly. After all this is the internet!
Well, I have plenty of time to write a reply at the moment as I'm on a flight back to Dubai from my home country. I had six days off in a row, which is a reasonably rare event but not unheard of, so I went home for four days. I got downgraded to economy on the way out, despite having a waitlisted ID50 for business class. On the way back there was only one flight in two days where I was fairly confident I would get on at all and this is a destination with three flights per day. This is in late February, not school or public holiday time. Here is the first lesson- do not think it is easy to use staff travel when you do get days off especially with low seniority. Flights are very often full and, especially travelling with a family, it will be a stressful experience. It also starts to get expensive very quickly. Even ID90s are far from free.
More observant readers will have noticed that, although I had six days off, I only went home for four. This is because after my days off I am rostered for an ultra long haul flight and the company demands that I be back in Dubai for three full nights before such a duty. It is very common to have such flights rostered after a block of days off and it can often completely prevent travel. It is worth mentioning that the majority of pilots I have spoken too believe that the company's interpretation of the flight time limitations is not correct and there is no legal need to be in Dubai so early. However, only the company's interpretation matters and it is not negotiable. This is lesson two- having days off does not mean you are free of the demands of the company. It is also worth mentioning at this point that the company, being a government entity, does not have to follow any employment laws. Even in Dubai, where the employment laws tend to be biased in favour of employers, that is worth having a good think about but before you sign up.
My wife decided to stay at home for a couple of weeks. Or possibly months. As she pointed out, I am only actually in Dubai for 12 “useful” days in March. “Useful” means days when I have not just got back from a long flight at 6am and am either in bed or exhausted for the rest of the day. I am flying 100 hours in March and the last three months have all been between 95 and 105, with a similar number of days in Dubai. Not surprisingly my spouse is getting sick of effectively living on her own as I am often away for five or six days at a time. Everyone's marriage is different and I leave it up to you to speculate on the effect living like this is likely to have on yours. Lesson three. The job is a marriage wrecker. The irony is a lot of people bring their families to Dubai for a better life, then never see them. Or the wife gets sick of being a one parent family and goes back home. With your children. You will see them even less then- see lesson 1.
I actually did relatively well for leave this year and got some of what I wanted. However, I still have 7 days of “forced leave” allocated by the company at a time of year I certainly wouldn't have chosen. This 7 day block finishes only three weeks before a period of leave I actually asked for. I have no doubt, based on past experience, that I will be flying for 90 hours during the month when I have this week “off”. As that is almost a normal month's roster the leave is actually only the days off for the month compressed together. Lesson four and five- you don't choose when your holiday is, the company does and it isn't really holiday at all as you still do the same amount of work that month. Working here, you are tired and jet lagged. Constantly.
When I joined Emirates, just over a decade ago, I left a secure job at a reputable European airline. Indeed, I was just coming up for my wide body command there. Nobody I spoke to at the time, either inside or outside Emirates, thought it was a bad idea. This was one of the best jobs to have in aviation in terms of both lifestyle and salary. Indeed some people in my previous company were positively envious. Now, I doubt any pilot inside Emirates would give an unqualified yes to the question, “Should I apply?”
The sixth and final (for now) lesson. If you join today the terms and conditions you experience will be the best you will get for your time here. In ten plus years I can't think of anything I could honestly say has improved. Other posts have mentioned the rampant inflation (and, coming soon, VAT- for an instant 5% pay cut) and the difficulty of saving on an F/O salary.
So there you go. No, we aren't making it up. Almost all of the posts are true and when somebody does post something that is completely wrong somebody else will correct it pretty quickly. After all this is the internet!
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Upgrades are taking longer and longer. some pilots are now realizing , more so on the 777, that they need attrition in order to upgrade. Hence the sky is falling on Pprune.
Last month 70k in the bank , company housing, OT, TRI pay, 13 days off. Close to 15 years , exit plan not because of EK or Dubai but because the money bucket almost full.
Last month 70k in the bank , company housing, OT, TRI pay, 13 days off. Close to 15 years , exit plan not because of EK or Dubai but because the money bucket almost full.
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Salamalecom. Not busy in Costa today I guess. Please go back to third floor where you no doubt do your best to look busy and important.
I’m back in DXB for a few days, come down to the Irish village for a beer and a pork chop.
I’m back in DXB for a few days, come down to the Irish village for a beer and a pork chop.
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Are most of the guys in the EK’s cockpits as negative as people here? I understand that terms and conditions are falling down at the increasing rate but it must be challenging to share the flightdeck with the guy who moans about the company for 9+ hours.
P.S. for some pilots EK, even with all its flaws, is a much much better place than those airlines they work for.
P.S. for some pilots EK, even with all its flaws, is a much much better place than those airlines they work for.
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It actually IS the company’s responsibility to please you or guess what happens? You leave.
Pay me or trade me. Please me or I’ll walk. There is a severe pilot shortage in case you have your head up your arse.
There is such a massive difference in Delta and Emirates. Everyone tries and helps each other and also to help the company. It is such a refreshing change after 3 years of hell at Emirates.
I know not everyone can work in the states but there are airlines that treat their employees right and you should try and work there. You will be so much better off in your paycheck and your psyche. The only wish is that I got to leave the sand sooner.
Salamalecon highlights everything wrong with Emirates and the Middle East. It is not all like that outside of EK. I don’t know where he come from.
Pay me or trade me. Please me or I’ll walk. There is a severe pilot shortage in case you have your head up your arse.
There is such a massive difference in Delta and Emirates. Everyone tries and helps each other and also to help the company. It is such a refreshing change after 3 years of hell at Emirates.
I know not everyone can work in the states but there are airlines that treat their employees right and you should try and work there. You will be so much better off in your paycheck and your psyche. The only wish is that I got to leave the sand sooner.
Salamalecon highlights everything wrong with Emirates and the Middle East. It is not all like that outside of EK. I don’t know where he come from.
