Emirates. Not that bad, surely?
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Upgrades are taking longer and longer. some pilots are now realizing , more so on the 777, that they need attrition in order to upgrade. Hence the sky is falling on Pprune.
Last month 70k in the bank , company housing, OT, TRI pay, 13 days off. Close to 15 years , exit plan not because of EK or Dubai but because the money bucket almost full.
Last month 70k in the bank , company housing, OT, TRI pay, 13 days off. Close to 15 years , exit plan not because of EK or Dubai but because the money bucket almost full.
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Making up problems to, hopefully, accelerate the upgrade seems a stretch, Fatbus.
Guys complaining because their upgrade is taking longer than they would like has zero impact on my stay/go mindset. Maybe that is just me, though.
Certainly doesn't explain the FOs leaving. Especially the ones that are in the upgrade window now.
Knowing you're leaving and your financial future is secure must make these issues less serious to you. If one is considering their longer term career, however, they take on more significance.
Guys complaining because their upgrade is taking longer than they would like has zero impact on my stay/go mindset. Maybe that is just me, though.
Certainly doesn't explain the FOs leaving. Especially the ones that are in the upgrade window now.
Knowing you're leaving and your financial future is secure must make these issues less serious to you. If one is considering their longer term career, however, they take on more significance.
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I'm not going looking for the bad, it comes to find me. There are still some positives about the job- the people I fly with are generally great and I manage to save a bit of money every month. After over a decade here I would damn well hope I would!
My money bucket is nowhere near full yet and I fully accept that the days of coming to the Land of Sand for 10 years and then retiring were over about 40 years ago. I have looked at jobs back in Europe and, for me, they didn't work. Hence I'm staying at Emirates a bit longer. This doesn't mean I don't want to be out as quickly as possible it just means that I'm approaching an age (and a seniority) where it is better for me to stay than to go. Would I come now, if I was in the same position I was when I first joined? No chance. Ten years ago I recommended Emirates to people in my old company. No way I would do that now.
To those who are still saying you have to look at the positives and it isn't that bad, not really, I would say: I don't know how long you have been here but tell me what about the job has improved in the time you have worked for Emirates? Because in 10 years just about everything I can think of, from leave to staff travel to inflation adjusted salary has deteriorated. Birdie on first and what goes up, I'm talking to you.
My money bucket is nowhere near full yet and I fully accept that the days of coming to the Land of Sand for 10 years and then retiring were over about 40 years ago. I have looked at jobs back in Europe and, for me, they didn't work. Hence I'm staying at Emirates a bit longer. This doesn't mean I don't want to be out as quickly as possible it just means that I'm approaching an age (and a seniority) where it is better for me to stay than to go. Would I come now, if I was in the same position I was when I first joined? No chance. Ten years ago I recommended Emirates to people in my old company. No way I would do that now.
To those who are still saying you have to look at the positives and it isn't that bad, not really, I would say: I don't know how long you have been here but tell me what about the job has improved in the time you have worked for Emirates? Because in 10 years just about everything I can think of, from leave to staff travel to inflation adjusted salary has deteriorated. Birdie on first and what goes up, I'm talking to you.
There are the aqueducts?
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Well, yes, obviously. And sanitation, roads, irrigation, medicine, education, wine and public order. But apart from that...
Actually there are certain similarities to the way the Holy Roman Empire ran things (they thought they ruled by Divine Right. Until suddenly they didn't) and Emirates...
To the youngsters who have no idea what we are on about, well, you just have no culture. Sorry.
Actually there are certain similarities to the way the Holy Roman Empire ran things (they thought they ruled by Divine Right. Until suddenly they didn't) and Emirates...
To the youngsters who have no idea what we are on about, well, you just have no culture. Sorry.
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BigG
I don't disagree with you. A lot of things are not the same as they used to be. But such is the industry... Aviation is not the same it used to be 15 years ago.
If I compare what I have here to what I could get if I did the move, this is still the best option... That is true for myself and my family.
If one doesn't like it and has options.. Move on. If no other options, put up with it and don't make your life bitter (and others... :-) )
I don't disagree with you. A lot of things are not the same as they used to be. But such is the industry... Aviation is not the same it used to be 15 years ago.
If I compare what I have here to what I could get if I did the move, this is still the best option... That is true for myself and my family.
If one doesn't like it and has options.. Move on. If no other options, put up with it and don't make your life bitter (and others... :-) )
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Fatbus,
Do you consider 13 days off to be a positive or a negative? In the aviation world I grew up with a wide body pilot would expect at least 18 off in a month. 70k tax free is good but you are working your tail off to achieve that number. Doesn't Ryan Air give you at least 13 days off without having to cross up to 12 time zones? Are Ryan Air rosters the new gold standard?
Do you consider 13 days off to be a positive or a negative? In the aviation world I grew up with a wide body pilot would expect at least 18 off in a month. 70k tax free is good but you are working your tail off to achieve that number. Doesn't Ryan Air give you at least 13 days off without having to cross up to 12 time zones? Are Ryan Air rosters the new gold standard?
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It is the best option at the moment, out of a pretty bad bunch, for me and my family as well- which is why I'm still here. However, I've already been here a long time so my situation is different to a 20-something who is just starting off a 25 year stint.
You said in your post, "It's not as bad as portrayed". So perhaps I should rephrase my question to, "Which parts of the portrayal on this board are inaccurate?" After all, that is the question which kicked off the whole thread and I think it deserves an answer. I've said, and backed up with personal experience, that it is pretty much as it is described.
I really think that it is important to get a balanced response because I'm a bit fed up flying with F/Os who are thoroughly disillusioned after only a year or two in the company. They joined thinking Pprune was a gross exaggeration from a few bitter and twisted individuals who wouldn't be happy anywhere. Then they discovered, the hard way and much too late, that what is written here is pretty accurate.
You said in your post, "It's not as bad as portrayed". So perhaps I should rephrase my question to, "Which parts of the portrayal on this board are inaccurate?" After all, that is the question which kicked off the whole thread and I think it deserves an answer. I've said, and backed up with personal experience, that it is pretty much as it is described.
I really think that it is important to get a balanced response because I'm a bit fed up flying with F/Os who are thoroughly disillusioned after only a year or two in the company. They joined thinking Pprune was a gross exaggeration from a few bitter and twisted individuals who wouldn't be happy anywhere. Then they discovered, the hard way and much too late, that what is written here is pretty accurate.
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Blinders
BOF is a 380 captain and completely oblivious as to the suffering of his colleges. He is in a seat that virtually no new hire will ever be in. He enjoys 50-100% more days off then my fleet with the added bonus of 7.000 aed more than us. For him life is GREAT!!. The rest of us should shut up, as we are cramping his vibe.
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What_goes_up,
Disagree with you. The industry as a whole has improved dramatically as compared to 15 years ago. Remember what happened to decimate the industry almost 15 years ago, look at the profits most well run airlines are experiencing and look at the employment opportunities compared to 15 years ago. EK seems to be the exception, not the rule. As the landscape improves for airlines, most are returning their major investment (employees) to a level not seen in decades. Not there yet but getting there.....except EK. Retirements of pilots and the price of fuel is "fueling" a robust return of T&Cs at many major worldwide airlines for pilots. Why is EK different? Ask yourself that.
WGU, can you name three things that have improved at EK for its flight crew, with regards to T&Cs, over the last decade. Anything? Loss of buying power, loss of annual leave, restriction of days off in a row, 25% increase in flying hours to over 100 hours per month for many, forced moves from long term accommodations, school fees not covering the cost of education, productivity hours threshold increased....do I need to go on. Well, there has been increase in the utilities allowance (there I named one for you). And not even mentioning the basics, just what has been lost over the last decade. Why aren't these loses being restored as other major airlines are doing? So if T&Cs continue to be deteriorated during these good times, what's to prevent more to be taken from us? There is nothing that will or could prevent that from continuing. Operations keep chugging along and new joiners continue to show up.
So Big G, all you say is spot on. Those reading these pages have to take this to heart. Perhaps if one's airline is in the "toilet", EK could be an improvement to one's career. Good luck.
Disagree with you. The industry as a whole has improved dramatically as compared to 15 years ago. Remember what happened to decimate the industry almost 15 years ago, look at the profits most well run airlines are experiencing and look at the employment opportunities compared to 15 years ago. EK seems to be the exception, not the rule. As the landscape improves for airlines, most are returning their major investment (employees) to a level not seen in decades. Not there yet but getting there.....except EK. Retirements of pilots and the price of fuel is "fueling" a robust return of T&Cs at many major worldwide airlines for pilots. Why is EK different? Ask yourself that.
WGU, can you name three things that have improved at EK for its flight crew, with regards to T&Cs, over the last decade. Anything? Loss of buying power, loss of annual leave, restriction of days off in a row, 25% increase in flying hours to over 100 hours per month for many, forced moves from long term accommodations, school fees not covering the cost of education, productivity hours threshold increased....do I need to go on. Well, there has been increase in the utilities allowance (there I named one for you). And not even mentioning the basics, just what has been lost over the last decade. Why aren't these loses being restored as other major airlines are doing? So if T&Cs continue to be deteriorated during these good times, what's to prevent more to be taken from us? There is nothing that will or could prevent that from continuing. Operations keep chugging along and new joiners continue to show up.
So Big G, all you say is spot on. Those reading these pages have to take this to heart. Perhaps if one's airline is in the "toilet", EK could be an improvement to one's career. Good luck.
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Disagree with you. The industry as a whole has improved dramatically as compared to 15 years ago. Remember what happened to decimate the industry almost 15 years ago, look at the profits most well run airlines are experiencing and look at the employment opportunities compared to 15 years ago. EK seems to be the exception, not the rule. As the landscape improves for airlines, most are returning their major investment (employees) to a level not seen in decades. Not there yet but getting there.....except EK.
All I was referring to, was that just because some individuals hate it here, it is not necessarily true for all of us. Some like it here for whatever (for you and the likes) obscure reason. All I know is that if I hated the place that much, I would not be here anymore but found some better QOL (maybe for the price of less money...). Done that before and would do it again.
Out of this discussion as I am not here to change anyone's opinion.
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13 days off plus 2 rest days plus 2 midnight arrivals . Also just because it's a wide body does not mean it's a long haul operation. Yes some airlines still have @18 days off flying wide body long haul, not denying that. Can't compare Delta 777 to EK. Compare EK to CX or SQ or CZ or KE to get an idea of which is better or not.
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thank you for the posts. From both sides....
I see it less as pilot bitching more of here is how my life has changed and examples given.
I know there are a ton of more pilots reading this thread that haven't commented but keep clicking "refresh"
I see it less as pilot bitching more of here is how my life has changed and examples given.
I know there are a ton of more pilots reading this thread that haven't commented but keep clicking "refresh"
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WGU,
I am still here for various reasons which precludes most of the options I talked about. Not bitter at all and enjoying my time here, knowing it will not be a career here. But you stated the industry has gone downhill for the last 15 years. I'm disagreeing because for the last few years it is climbing and climbing healthy. And many of the flight crew ARE reaping the benefits of this recovery. Meanwhile, EK continues to take. You cannot deny that. Abused wives stay with their abusers for many reasons. Doesn't mean they're not abused. And perhaps for many, this is a better option than their present situation. Just be prepared for nothing more positive with regard to T&Cs.
But still waiting for three things that have improved with regard to T&Cs for the entire pilot group, in the last decade.
I am still here for various reasons which precludes most of the options I talked about. Not bitter at all and enjoying my time here, knowing it will not be a career here. But you stated the industry has gone downhill for the last 15 years. I'm disagreeing because for the last few years it is climbing and climbing healthy. And many of the flight crew ARE reaping the benefits of this recovery. Meanwhile, EK continues to take. You cannot deny that. Abused wives stay with their abusers for many reasons. Doesn't mean they're not abused. And perhaps for many, this is a better option than their present situation. Just be prepared for nothing more positive with regard to T&Cs.
But still waiting for three things that have improved with regard to T&Cs for the entire pilot group, in the last decade.
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What_goes_up,
Disagree with you. The industry as a whole has improved dramatically as compared to 15 years ago. Remember what happened to decimate the industry almost 15 years ago, look at the profits most well run airlines are experiencing and look at the employment opportunities compared to 15 years ago...As the landscape improves for airlines, most are returning their major investment (employees) to a level not seen in decades. Not there yet but getting there.....except
Disagree with you. The industry as a whole has improved dramatically as compared to 15 years ago. Remember what happened to decimate the industry almost 15 years ago, look at the profits most well run airlines are experiencing and look at the employment opportunities compared to 15 years ago...As the landscape improves for airlines, most are returning their major investment (employees) to a level not seen in decades. Not there yet but getting there.....except
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With respect to the last couple of posters, you are missing the point of this thread. We know terms and conditions are flexible at Emirates and changes are always in favour of the company. We also know that, generally, the industry has been going downhill for the last 10 years.
I started this thread because somebody asked me if things were really as bad as people on Pprune say they are. So far, nobody has been able to point to any glaring inaccuracies in any of the posts about Emirates. There are worse (and better) airlines out there, there always will be. For any potential joiners though I think the overriding lesson is to read the posts on the numerous EK threads very carefully. Because they are almost all accurate. Then make your own decision but don't sit next to me in 2 or 3 years (I'll probably still be here, trying to save enough to leave) complaining that it is worse than you thought it would be.
I started this thread because somebody asked me if things were really as bad as people on Pprune say they are. So far, nobody has been able to point to any glaring inaccuracies in any of the posts about Emirates. There are worse (and better) airlines out there, there always will be. For any potential joiners though I think the overriding lesson is to read the posts on the numerous EK threads very carefully. Because they are almost all accurate. Then make your own decision but don't sit next to me in 2 or 3 years (I'll probably still be here, trying to save enough to leave) complaining that it is worse than you thought it would be.
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Greetings Desert Dwellers,
Firstly apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I didn't feel like creating a new one as I thought this one would be perfectly adequate to get my questions across. I must admit that this particular thread among-st the many other surprisingly abundant 'EK is not OK' types I've been binging on has really jaded my mind set as to whether coming over to the pit would 'really' prove worthwhile.....Can someone please provide me some updated info on advancement within the company? Is it based on seniority, merit, something else? I'm coming from a 2300+ total hours with about 2000 on the 738 background, in a company/situation that I have grown tired of and fed up with, the way I see it it simply can't get worse than where I am. My expectation would be to get some wide body experience and then maybe an upgrade ~5-6 years thereafter? Please feel free to rain on my parade or correct my Utopian expectations accordingly.
Just a bit of background info; In my late twenties, due to get married very soon. Currently an SFO at an Irish LOCO and I'm seriously considering the long haul opportunity the likes of EK/QR are offering with a goal/mindset/game plan to come to the desert do my time of a decade or so worth of graft and come back to Blighty hoping to be mortgage free with some respectable savings amassed in the process. For the record I'm not one of those self absorbed blingy flashy social media lothario types. Me and my wife to be are simply seeking to make the most of what we got whilst were young and able really. So I'm under no illusion of becoming a pilot gazzilionaire down there. Just sick and tired of slogging it in the LOCO world that's all...anyways meaningless rant over
I've always had a good impression on the aforementioned carriers, that is until I resorted to some heavy Googling of late which has left me a little bewildered or just in denial about the conditions over there, then I think to myself it surely can't get any worse then where I am; on a zero hour contract,no free H20, perkless on all accounts. What other credible outfit actually charges their own for RSTs/LPC/OPC. To top it off the recent absurd remarks spouted by the head harpist in the media makes you sick to the stomach, absolute defamation of the profession and its resolute workforce SMH. Anyways, I really don't have any viable contacts to consult with over there....hence why I'm making a plea on here really, Sigh, I've really got some big decisions ahead of me and frankly any advise/suggestions/guidance on the matter would be immensely appreciated either on here or via PM
Thank you for your time & have a Good evening folks!
EM
Firstly apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I didn't feel like creating a new one as I thought this one would be perfectly adequate to get my questions across. I must admit that this particular thread among-st the many other surprisingly abundant 'EK is not OK' types I've been binging on has really jaded my mind set as to whether coming over to the pit would 'really' prove worthwhile.....Can someone please provide me some updated info on advancement within the company? Is it based on seniority, merit, something else? I'm coming from a 2300+ total hours with about 2000 on the 738 background, in a company/situation that I have grown tired of and fed up with, the way I see it it simply can't get worse than where I am. My expectation would be to get some wide body experience and then maybe an upgrade ~5-6 years thereafter? Please feel free to rain on my parade or correct my Utopian expectations accordingly.
Just a bit of background info; In my late twenties, due to get married very soon. Currently an SFO at an Irish LOCO and I'm seriously considering the long haul opportunity the likes of EK/QR are offering with a goal/mindset/game plan to come to the desert do my time of a decade or so worth of graft and come back to Blighty hoping to be mortgage free with some respectable savings amassed in the process. For the record I'm not one of those self absorbed blingy flashy social media lothario types. Me and my wife to be are simply seeking to make the most of what we got whilst were young and able really. So I'm under no illusion of becoming a pilot gazzilionaire down there. Just sick and tired of slogging it in the LOCO world that's all...anyways meaningless rant over
I've always had a good impression on the aforementioned carriers, that is until I resorted to some heavy Googling of late which has left me a little bewildered or just in denial about the conditions over there, then I think to myself it surely can't get any worse then where I am; on a zero hour contract,no free H20, perkless on all accounts. What other credible outfit actually charges their own for RSTs/LPC/OPC. To top it off the recent absurd remarks spouted by the head harpist in the media makes you sick to the stomach, absolute defamation of the profession and its resolute workforce SMH. Anyways, I really don't have any viable contacts to consult with over there....hence why I'm making a plea on here really, Sigh, I've really got some big decisions ahead of me and frankly any advise/suggestions/guidance on the matter would be immensely appreciated either on here or via PM
Thank you for your time & have a Good evening folks!
EM
Last edited by Exiled Martian; 10th Oct 2017 at 19:20.