EK F/O - Cost of living in Dubai
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Less and Less
You will never make as much as your first year here. Next year the VAT is coming. The cost of living here increases 10-12% a year. So to be break even next year you would need a pay raise of 17%. Not going to happen. Kids on an FO salary is a hard slog. Schooling is far from free. I understand it looks like a lot of $, and in fact it is. It just does not get you far here when you have kids. Used car and furniture is a must. You will not save $ here with more than two kids on an FO salary. The Provident fund aside. But you must stay here for 5 years to get that. Everyone I spoke to with kids, it was 2-3 years before they were break even from the move here. So your first two years are a wash. There are many leaving now who thought this their career airline. My opinion is your health is not worth it. There is a reason why people are leaving, and some without jobs. While the dwindling $ is part of it. Mostly the rostering and T&C degradation is really why people are going. That and the utter contempt EK has towards its pilot group. "If you don't like it leave.", is a true story, and that precisely sums up how you will be treated. EK is currently short about 20% on their pilots. They plan on hiring enough to cover attrition and some of the new aircraft. Meaning they will be even shorter next year. Worse rostering and leave. You are not entering into a place that is going to get better any time soon. All this IMHO.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Simply put... Very expensive. I have three children. My FO pay packet has been diminishing quicker every year longer I have been here, go figure! We live simply. Very little take away's or eating out. We shop as cheap as possible. Our children do minimal sports outside of school. We have one car only, no boats, motorbikes or any other toys. School fees are climbing at a much greater rate then the allowances provided! As a new joiner there are many hidden costs, UAE id cards for instance that are not covered for your family. Letter translations, typing etc. Licences, phones etc. The 45k helps with the cash flow but it will disappear very rapidly.
I personally still enjoy the flying although the hours are getting out of control. I think management have forgotten its not a domestic airline! I have a very supportive family but the strain is showing on the wife, understandably. The kids regularly ask when I'm going to be home? Reason I left the last airline!
I don't regret the move but every year I do wonder how many more I actually have in me here.
Not saying don't come, in fact we need you but if you are happy and have family around you I would consider carefully the move.
Good luck all.
I personally still enjoy the flying although the hours are getting out of control. I think management have forgotten its not a domestic airline! I have a very supportive family but the strain is showing on the wife, understandably. The kids regularly ask when I'm going to be home? Reason I left the last airline!
I don't regret the move but every year I do wonder how many more I actually have in me here.
Not saying don't come, in fact we need you but if you are happy and have family around you I would consider carefully the move.
Good luck all.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dubai
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4000x20%=800
Are you saying undermanned by 800 pilots?
Are you saying undermanned by 800 pilots?
Not to mention lack of leave availability and 110 block hours in a month being the new norm
Join Date: Jul 2011
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800 Is a bit over but it's not crazy over:
4,000 pilots are each flying a min of 10 hours/month too many. That's 40,000 hours/month. 40,000 hours requires 470 pilot flying 85 hours/month.
I'd estimate that each of those 4,000 pilots are at least 7 days short of leave. Taking the company's lead of each leave day being worth 2.5 hours, that means 70,000 hours short/year. 70,000 hours requires 82 pilots flying 850 hours a year.
If you add on a few for training, sickness etc. I'd say we're at least 600 pilots short. That's 15%. Wonder how much of that saving was spent paying TCAS a bonus?
4,000 pilots are each flying a min of 10 hours/month too many. That's 40,000 hours/month. 40,000 hours requires 470 pilot flying 85 hours/month.
I'd estimate that each of those 4,000 pilots are at least 7 days short of leave. Taking the company's lead of each leave day being worth 2.5 hours, that means 70,000 hours short/year. 70,000 hours requires 82 pilots flying 850 hours a year.
If you add on a few for training, sickness etc. I'd say we're at least 600 pilots short. That's 15%. Wonder how much of that saving was spent paying TCAS a bonus?
Join Date: Jan 2014
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20%?
Fair enough if you arrive at a different number. But to get the hours down to 75-80 and get it so people are actually receiving meaningful leave. (Not working a full months roster then being sent on leave.) Useful leave not forced in 7 day blocks, then 20% is my number. If you want to throw in credit for sims, ground school, distant learning and vacation then I think it goes up more. Flying 90 house a month on the sunny side is one thing, but flying the entire back of the clock 4-10 times a month then yes the schedules need to be closer to 70 hours for safety and long term health.
For the record, its a max of 78hrs we should be rostered in a 31 day month. That's what they promised when they gave the pay cut way back when. Any more and they are still stealing. The company is about to make over $US 2 BILLION. Its about time they stop stealing from our pay packets.
Thanks Gloie, I feel special now.
short flights long nights
They stole when the put the overtime up from 78 to 92, and it has continued from there.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Cost of living:
Be very careful. What looks ok today is below par tomorrow.
The blokes from the southern hemisphere, be it SA or BZ, will find a better life in the pit, no doubt. But then we are not talking cost!
If we talk cost, my honest conviction is, that as for the moment EK is just barely covering the daily cost for a FO with a wife that does not work. That is if you live a quiet life without hobbies.
If you add kids, then you will go backwards, as the money simply does not cover a life an average pilot expects. (examples of a simple life are to be found above).
Be very careful. What looks ok today is below par tomorrow.
The blokes from the southern hemisphere, be it SA or BZ, will find a better life in the pit, no doubt. But then we are not talking cost!
If we talk cost, my honest conviction is, that as for the moment EK is just barely covering the daily cost for a FO with a wife that does not work. That is if you live a quiet life without hobbies.
If you add kids, then you will go backwards, as the money simply does not cover a life an average pilot expects. (examples of a simple life are to be found above).
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Even as a captain I struggle to make ends meet. With three kids i've had to pay for the first year of school for each of them. EK only pays from 4 years old, fine some might say then don't send them to school until they are covered by EK. The school then steps in and says sorry sir we cannot offer a you a place for your child unless he goes to school for the first year which EK doesn't cover. If you like me with three kids that will leave you 40 000 a year out of pocket per child. That adds up to 120000 for all three kids over a 5year period.
The money EK offers might look good, but if you factor in all the extras required just for day to day living then it is way below par. Dubai is extremely expensive on even the most frugal lifestyle.
The money EK offers might look good, but if you factor in all the extras required just for day to day living then it is way below par. Dubai is extremely expensive on even the most frugal lifestyle.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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With a general analysis and my dodgy mathematical skills, something doesn't add up. Here in Sydney, with a wife and 2 kids, I'm forking out 90k Oz a year on all the things Emirates covers in Dubai: mortgage, tax, school fees, extra car, utilities/rates, some insurances and the like. Granted there likely is some top-up for a better school over there, but I still can't see how you'd blow most of your FO cash? Sydney is exorbitant these days, and a check on cost of living websites puts Dubai on a par for groceries/grog/eating out. I'm not judging anyone here. Horses for courses and all that, but I can't reconcile how you could spend 2500-3000 Oz per week.
Getting flogged, losing leave and pay not matching inflation aside, I'm just curious as all the blokes leaving my workplace have financial benefits number 1 on their list.
Getting flogged, losing leave and pay not matching inflation aside, I'm just curious as all the blokes leaving my workplace have financial benefits number 1 on their list.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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500g of butter at Carrefour UAE, AU$11,50
20Mbit/s Internet in UAE (Etisalat): AU$132 /month
Soccer (once a week) for kids, AU$900 per term (3 terms per year)
Should I continue?
20Mbit/s Internet in UAE (Etisalat): AU$132 /month
Soccer (once a week) for kids, AU$900 per term (3 terms per year)
Should I continue?
Last edited by kcar; 16th Mar 2016 at 01:48.
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I will have a go at explaining the type of costs a joining FO can expect. I have been here a while now and with a family, I can remember having almost nothing left at the end of every month on FO pay when I joined.
Remember that this is known average prices and if anyone has major differences then feel free to list them.. The purpose of posting this is to try to help new joiners to get a real understanding that the salary looks attractive but it is tight when you subtract living costs in Dubai.
Average monthly expenditure.............
All prices are UAE Dirhams (AED)
All quotes are estimates as I am not going to look up specific numbers (CBA)
Elife TV and Internet 600 (basic package)
Mobile phone bill self and family with data 650 includes phone purchase
Fuel for car (includes school runs) 500
Education fee (1 child) 2000 (most have at least 2 children) = 4000
Schools are always needing a cheque for XYZ activity or trip 500 (2 kids) = 1000
Medical benefits family 400
Provident scheme payment 2500
Food is always @500 per trip to a supermarket me that is around every 3 days as food does not last long here, even in the fridge. 500x10 (30 days in a month) = 5000
Car maintenance (2 x service annually minimum including parts and labour on a car averaging 7 years old) 10k to 15k so average it at 12k or per month 1000. There is still always an expense, even on your brand new car. Tyres need changing every 3 years and will cost you over 2500 min.
Monthly trip to ACE hardware as something always needs repairing on the house 700
Car and home contents insurance pm 300
Monthly clothing replacement (incl school uniforms) and shoes etc bill 4 people 600
If you are an FO then you will most likely be paying off a car loan, intrest free to the company for around a (75k loan) and the rest with intrest from a bank over 4 years. Monthly repayment @ 3000 (150k car / 4 years = 37,500 / 12) = 3125
600
650
500
4000
1000
400
2500
5000
1000
700
300
600
3125
Above Total = 20,375 AED
The list is not exhaustive and now let's say you do go out for lunch just once a week with your loved one = 300 x 4 = 1200
If you drink alcohol and socialise at home and purchase your booze from the local liquor shops then you will be 150 incl tax for the cheapest 2 bottles of wine. 150 pw x 4 = 600. ( If you are not spending 150 pw on booze then you have a soda problem).
Should you decide to go out to dinner only once a month and have a bottle of wine with the meal then a cheap night out is 600
1200
600
600
Above total = 2400 (optional expenses but everyone needs a coffee out at least)
20,375
+
2,400
22,775 GRAND TOTAL, without hobbies or otherwise like family trips.
Converting to current exchange rates, a minimalistic lifestyle, 2 children, having lunch once a week out with your wife and maybe going out once a month for dinner. It includes my best guess for average prices from my head without checking exact amounts. Remember that no holidays, family trips for days out or hobbies are included in the list. To me this is my best approximation of how much your expenses would be in your first 4 years to come fly the shiny jets. The totals at the bottom do not include any form of saving, this is just a very average lifestyle in Dubai during the first 4 years.
AUD 8,200pm
US 6,091pm
UK 4,400pm
EUR. 5,496pm
Remember that this is known average prices and if anyone has major differences then feel free to list them.. The purpose of posting this is to try to help new joiners to get a real understanding that the salary looks attractive but it is tight when you subtract living costs in Dubai.
Average monthly expenditure.............
All prices are UAE Dirhams (AED)
All quotes are estimates as I am not going to look up specific numbers (CBA)
Elife TV and Internet 600 (basic package)
Mobile phone bill self and family with data 650 includes phone purchase
Fuel for car (includes school runs) 500
Education fee (1 child) 2000 (most have at least 2 children) = 4000
Schools are always needing a cheque for XYZ activity or trip 500 (2 kids) = 1000
Medical benefits family 400
Provident scheme payment 2500
Food is always @500 per trip to a supermarket me that is around every 3 days as food does not last long here, even in the fridge. 500x10 (30 days in a month) = 5000
Car maintenance (2 x service annually minimum including parts and labour on a car averaging 7 years old) 10k to 15k so average it at 12k or per month 1000. There is still always an expense, even on your brand new car. Tyres need changing every 3 years and will cost you over 2500 min.
Monthly trip to ACE hardware as something always needs repairing on the house 700
Car and home contents insurance pm 300
Monthly clothing replacement (incl school uniforms) and shoes etc bill 4 people 600
If you are an FO then you will most likely be paying off a car loan, intrest free to the company for around a (75k loan) and the rest with intrest from a bank over 4 years. Monthly repayment @ 3000 (150k car / 4 years = 37,500 / 12) = 3125
600
650
500
4000
1000
400
2500
5000
1000
700
300
600
3125
Above Total = 20,375 AED
The list is not exhaustive and now let's say you do go out for lunch just once a week with your loved one = 300 x 4 = 1200
If you drink alcohol and socialise at home and purchase your booze from the local liquor shops then you will be 150 incl tax for the cheapest 2 bottles of wine. 150 pw x 4 = 600. ( If you are not spending 150 pw on booze then you have a soda problem).
Should you decide to go out to dinner only once a month and have a bottle of wine with the meal then a cheap night out is 600
1200
600
600
Above total = 2400 (optional expenses but everyone needs a coffee out at least)
20,375
+
2,400
22,775 GRAND TOTAL, without hobbies or otherwise like family trips.
Converting to current exchange rates, a minimalistic lifestyle, 2 children, having lunch once a week out with your wife and maybe going out once a month for dinner. It includes my best guess for average prices from my head without checking exact amounts. Remember that no holidays, family trips for days out or hobbies are included in the list. To me this is my best approximation of how much your expenses would be in your first 4 years to come fly the shiny jets. The totals at the bottom do not include any form of saving, this is just a very average lifestyle in Dubai during the first 4 years.
AUD 8,200pm
US 6,091pm
UK 4,400pm
EUR. 5,496pm
Last edited by jack schidt; 16th Mar 2016 at 02:29. Reason: Spelling (darn auto spellers)
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Jack is correct.
Also remember, just because you moved to Dubai doesn't necessarily mean you don't have financial responsibilities back home.
Placing tenants in your house can help with repayments for your home loan, but you will have expenses back home that need to be addressed also.
Also remember, just because you moved to Dubai doesn't necessarily mean you don't have financial responsibilities back home.
Placing tenants in your house can help with repayments for your home loan, but you will have expenses back home that need to be addressed also.
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Some excellent figures, the only thing we found dramatically different was the school fees. No, our kids didn't go to Gems World Academy either. 
Depending on what school your children attend or where they can get a seat, what grades/year they are in (in the lower years - FS2-Year 6, EK covers considerably less yet some schools charge the same no matter what year/grade your child is in), and whether or not they take the bus, the fees can vary dramatically. I remember when we first came here our school fees were well over 40,000 dhs per year with two kids in school at that time.
With that said, if you have kids, you might want to research exactly what school you would like your children to go to, and what the actual costs are going to be...provided they can get a seat there. Good luck!
Depending on what school your children attend or where they can get a seat, what grades/year they are in (in the lower years - FS2-Year 6, EK covers considerably less yet some schools charge the same no matter what year/grade your child is in), and whether or not they take the bus, the fees can vary dramatically. I remember when we first came here our school fees were well over 40,000 dhs per year with two kids in school at that time. With that said, if you have kids, you might want to research exactly what school you would like your children to go to, and what the actual costs are going to be...provided they can get a seat there. Good luck!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I lived a while ago over the bay in lovely Doha, did fly for their lovely airline over there(if you find sarkasm, you may keep it ;-) ).
I was a captain on one of their widebody fleets, same pattern, barely never at "home" in Doha(which is in fact a bonus if you are single, but not good for a family father and husband).
I think costs of living in Doha (at that time) have been lower then in DXB, even there are less things to do(and spend your money on).
BUT - even on a captains salary, there was not really that much money remaining - if you lock your family in the house maybe yes, otherwise, not really.
Life in the ME is expensive, if you buy books or DVD's in the Virgin store, some dress or other non arab made stuff, all is expensive. Often twice as what you would pay in shops in Europe.
Then there are the extra costs for school(uniform, sometimes books, registering fee, etc.) which are not paid by the company. Normally they just pay for the annual school fee(seems to be the same in EK).
Normally you need a club membership for your family, gyms at the company facilities are lousy, pools hot and barely cleaned, which makes again up to 5000 USD/year/family. Depending how "fancy" it has to be. But you want something with a big inddor pool or a cooled outdoor pool(otherwise you swim in a 40°C soup over the lovely summer), and that is usually not cheap.
THEN you want to bring them most likely out for eating every now and then, and there you can really spend a sh**load of money on(I was surprised how much one of this nice restaurants in front of this bloddy "music" fountain is costing. Shocking.(Have been there on one of my last rotations with my current, european, operator. Doing a layover. And one of the FA's told us that we HAVE to see that place.... Well, I have seen enough[and paid enough]).
Sure, then there are lots of cheaper place where a pilot would went to. At least that's what I did after that "fountain incident". But if you are anyway barely never there and then go out with your wife it should be something nice...
And we could go on - if you are not there because they always keep you flying your family would most likely to have a life and not sitting locked up at home. And everything comes with a big pricetag down there.
If you have still a life(e.g. flat, house,insurance...) back in your homecountry it will cost you as well a bit. For a European(Western) usually this means a good amount of money spent there. I had all of above and at the end there is not much remaining of a captains salary, I can imagine (or better, I can't) how to make a decent living on a FO's salary(talking of a man with family and kid(s) not a kid enjoying the ME of course).
I must say I do not (and never will) regret saying goodby to that shiny(and fake) ME world.
I earn now much much less but have a life, have time with my family. Much more then I ever had down there. Plus I know I always have legal means against my employer in case ever something is going seriously wrong.
Below the line there is nearly as much money remaing as it did on my much better paid job down there. As a bonus I live where I want and see a nice landscape if I look out of the window.
Especially for UAE/Dubai consider as well - they will implement the VAT very soon(I think I read somewhere 10%) plus earlier or later there will be as well income tax. And it is not sure if they(EK) will really increase the salary. After all they need to earn the money first before they can spend it. Dubai is more or less broke, so not much money can be pumped into the airline, not like the much richer brothers in the neighbourhood.
If you have been a Captain before plan to sit on the right seat for a while, I think 5 years will be a realistic minimum. But it could be much longer as well.
As a South American you have one bonus - the earned money in the UAE is much more worth back home then in comparison for someone from Western Europe. Or Africa(I flew with some guys back then and with this money they earned in QR they have been like small kings back in their african home country - farm, tons of workers, etc.). I instead repaid the loan for my small flat back home, and that was it.
Consider well what you want to do and how long. Make yourself aware that commiting to one of this airlines is a long term commitment. Especially as a FO. Otherwise it will just cost you money and a lot of stress.
If you never have been to the ME before consider having a trip over there and think if you really could stand that sand, dust, traffic, unfriendly people, heat, high prices, poor building quality,... for a lot of years, not just for a week of holidays(whoever would go there for holidays, but that's a personal choice).
I was a captain on one of their widebody fleets, same pattern, barely never at "home" in Doha(which is in fact a bonus if you are single, but not good for a family father and husband).
I think costs of living in Doha (at that time) have been lower then in DXB, even there are less things to do(and spend your money on).
BUT - even on a captains salary, there was not really that much money remaining - if you lock your family in the house maybe yes, otherwise, not really.
Life in the ME is expensive, if you buy books or DVD's in the Virgin store, some dress or other non arab made stuff, all is expensive. Often twice as what you would pay in shops in Europe.
Then there are the extra costs for school(uniform, sometimes books, registering fee, etc.) which are not paid by the company. Normally they just pay for the annual school fee(seems to be the same in EK).
Normally you need a club membership for your family, gyms at the company facilities are lousy, pools hot and barely cleaned, which makes again up to 5000 USD/year/family. Depending how "fancy" it has to be. But you want something with a big inddor pool or a cooled outdoor pool(otherwise you swim in a 40°C soup over the lovely summer), and that is usually not cheap.
THEN you want to bring them most likely out for eating every now and then, and there you can really spend a sh**load of money on(I was surprised how much one of this nice restaurants in front of this bloddy "music" fountain is costing. Shocking.(Have been there on one of my last rotations with my current, european, operator. Doing a layover. And one of the FA's told us that we HAVE to see that place.... Well, I have seen enough[and paid enough]).
Sure, then there are lots of cheaper place where a pilot would went to. At least that's what I did after that "fountain incident". But if you are anyway barely never there and then go out with your wife it should be something nice...
And we could go on - if you are not there because they always keep you flying your family would most likely to have a life and not sitting locked up at home. And everything comes with a big pricetag down there.
If you have still a life(e.g. flat, house,insurance...) back in your homecountry it will cost you as well a bit. For a European(Western) usually this means a good amount of money spent there. I had all of above and at the end there is not much remaining of a captains salary, I can imagine (or better, I can't) how to make a decent living on a FO's salary(talking of a man with family and kid(s) not a kid enjoying the ME of course).
I must say I do not (and never will) regret saying goodby to that shiny(and fake) ME world.
I earn now much much less but have a life, have time with my family. Much more then I ever had down there. Plus I know I always have legal means against my employer in case ever something is going seriously wrong.
Below the line there is nearly as much money remaing as it did on my much better paid job down there. As a bonus I live where I want and see a nice landscape if I look out of the window.
Especially for UAE/Dubai consider as well - they will implement the VAT very soon(I think I read somewhere 10%) plus earlier or later there will be as well income tax. And it is not sure if they(EK) will really increase the salary. After all they need to earn the money first before they can spend it. Dubai is more or less broke, so not much money can be pumped into the airline, not like the much richer brothers in the neighbourhood.
If you have been a Captain before plan to sit on the right seat for a while, I think 5 years will be a realistic minimum. But it could be much longer as well.
As a South American you have one bonus - the earned money in the UAE is much more worth back home then in comparison for someone from Western Europe. Or Africa(I flew with some guys back then and with this money they earned in QR they have been like small kings back in their african home country - farm, tons of workers, etc.). I instead repaid the loan for my small flat back home, and that was it.
Consider well what you want to do and how long. Make yourself aware that commiting to one of this airlines is a long term commitment. Especially as a FO. Otherwise it will just cost you money and a lot of stress.
If you never have been to the ME before consider having a trip over there and think if you really could stand that sand, dust, traffic, unfriendly people, heat, high prices, poor building quality,... for a lot of years, not just for a week of holidays(whoever would go there for holidays, but that's a personal choice).