Emirates Goes Non-Stop Dubai-Auckland from March
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Apparently EK asked Boeing if they could convert the aux tanks back for use, and Boeing said no eff'ing way, so hence the PTY launch is on hold...oops...probably the same thing will hold up the direct AKL. Maybe if the left hand talked to the right hand? hahah!
Besides, hasn't Air India already stolen the mantle of "longest flight" or whatever with DEL-SFO? Unlike EK, they're actually...doing it. So who gives a ****?
Besides, hasn't Air India already stolen the mantle of "longest flight" or whatever with DEL-SFO? Unlike EK, they're actually...doing it. So who gives a ****?
so hence the PTY launch is on hold...oops...probably the same thing will hold up the direct AKL. Maybe if the left hand talked to the right hand? hahah!
"Yeah Ops, its gonna be great, the worlds longest flight!"
"But commercial, we cant do it"
"Yes we can (jabbing and pointing at the 200LR brochure with specs)"
"Um commercial, yes thats all well and good, but we cant do it"
"Yes we can"
"No we can't"
"Yes we can!"
"no we can't"
"Ok Mr negative Ops, why not?"
"because Mr Blue sky thinking commercial, our 777-200LR's don't have AUX tanks in them so don't have the range, thats why"
"What?"
"You heard me, no tanks no PTY"
"What kind of stupid idiots decided to remove the AUX tanks?"
"You guys commercial, you told us to take them out"
"Don't worry Ops, we wont blame you, we'll blame Boeing or maybe those negative pilots on PPrune for ruining our recruiting plans, would you like a Latte'? Costa gives Platinum discount here"
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The very same AUX tank design has been in continuous service with QF since 2003. Fitted in each of their 6 B747-400ER's.
Nitrogen inerting systems are only required when the fuel tank is sitting over a heat source. Hence on most Boeing aircraft including the B777, the center tank must now be fitted with a nitrogen inerting system as the pack system beneath the center tank represents the heat source.
Removing the AUX tank was a good decision as it eats up pallet space. And considering no EK -200LR flight to date required the AUX tank, removing it made perfect sense. Only 4 or 5 of the 10 aircraft were purchased with 1 AUX tank option and the the relevant plumbing and fixtures to accommodate the tank. (Boeing offers 1 and 3 AUX tank options on the -200LR).
There is absolutely nothing preventing engineering from re-fitting said AUX tanks. When fuel volume limited, said AUX tank increases the range by ~200nm, at a constant ZFW.
The 10 -200LR are still at 343,369kgs MTOW. With a quick phone call and wire transfer to Boeing, this can become 347,451kgs. The freighters were purchased with the highest MTOW option.
PTY was delayed due to the the late approval of the codeshare agreement with Copa. This route would never have launched without it.
any evidence the aux tanks were ever certified ? My understanding is they weren't and is a Boeing issue ? Anyone know of any in use on 777LR. ? 747 isn't relevant as a lot of other Boeing and Airbus types have the same tanks in the past .
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http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...01SE_Rev38.pdf
Page 21, Note: 10 (Just in case you think my screenshot is doctored
)Boeing has from day one, offered and continues to offer 1, 2 or 3 optional AUX tanks for the -200LR in its official B777 customer options catalogue.
EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR (1 AUX tank for EK). They knew what the aircraft was capable of from day one, and hence did not purchase the highest MTOW and removed the AUX tank upon delivery. No route to date has required the additional fuel volume or MTOW, and keeping the AUX tank in the hold all these years would have been countless wasted cargo space.
With a upcoming AKL launch they can if need be increase MTOW (on all 10), and re-fit the single AUX tank to the frames that were originally delivered with the tank and have the relevant plumbing (not retrofittable).
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You have to realize you are talking to EK pilots. They know everything there is to know about operating an airline . They claim EK ( the airline) has no idea what they are doing, including the statis of the current fleet
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@B-HKD
Your statement
"EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR"
is not true.
Air India also purchased 4 x 200LRs with AUX tanks. VT-ALF/G/H and VT-ALE(current EY A6-LRE).
Don't know if EY kept the aux tank or not, but at least 3x200LRs STILL have aux tanks.
Originally VT-ALD intended to be the worlds first longest range aircraft, but certification delays changed plans and VT-ALD was delivered without aux tank.
Your statement
"EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR"
is not true.
Air India also purchased 4 x 200LRs with AUX tanks. VT-ALF/G/H and VT-ALE(current EY A6-LRE).
Don't know if EY kept the aux tank or not, but at least 3x200LRs STILL have aux tanks.
Originally VT-ALD intended to be the worlds first longest range aircraft, but certification delays changed plans and VT-ALD was delivered without aux tank.
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@B-HKD
Your statement
"EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR"
is not true.
Air India also purchased 4 x 200LRs with AUX tanks. VT-ALF/G/H and VT-ALE(current EY A6-LRE).
Don't know if EY kept the aux tank or not, but at least 3x200LRs STILL have aux tanks.
Originally VT-ALD intended to be the worlds first longest range aircraft, but certification delays changed plans and VT-ALD was delivered without aux tank.
Your statement
"EK is to date the only operator that purchased the the AUX tank option on the -200LR"
is not true.
Air India also purchased 4 x 200LRs with AUX tanks. VT-ALF/G/H and VT-ALE(current EY A6-LRE).
Don't know if EY kept the aux tank or not, but at least 3x200LRs STILL have aux tanks.
Originally VT-ALD intended to be the worlds first longest range aircraft, but certification delays changed plans and VT-ALD was delivered without aux tank.
However, you also forgot about VT-ALA/B/C/D.
This official Air India tender lists the equipment for all 4 and shows the single AUX tank fitted.
http://mmd.airindia.co.in/aimmd/tend...ifications.pdf
So to clear it up all AI -200LR were delivered with AUX tanks?
Not only did those idiots never put the aircraft to use, let alone the AUX tanks, but they also ordered the small aft cargo door option. Hence, even if EY removed the tank after buying the 5 ex-AI aircraft, they cannot carry pallets in the aft cargo hold.
Last edited by B-HKD; 1st Feb 2016 at 20:44.
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Well they started using 200LRs on DEL-SFO-DEL and LOADS are REAL GREAT.
Unlike EK, other commercial airlines carry more HUMANS than DRY FRUITS, so small aft cargo door is not a major issue.
They didn't throw away the AUX tanks and even if they removed, they are skilled enough to put it back.
Of course EK can operate 200LRs to anywhere, just keep PLF lower than 30%, which is not out of the norm.
Unlike EK, other commercial airlines carry more HUMANS than DRY FRUITS, so small aft cargo door is not a major issue.
They didn't throw away the AUX tanks and even if they removed, they are skilled enough to put it back.
Of course EK can operate 200LRs to anywhere, just keep PLF lower than 30%, which is not out of the norm.
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notapilot15,
Are you high?
Air India seat 238 in their 3 -200LR's.
That is the lowest density of any carrier operating the aircraft. They have been operating with empty or 1 seat booked in the F cabin on average, 30-35% in J, and 50-60% in Y and that with rubbish yields.
Supposedly they will begin (finally) removing the F cabin and re-configuring to a more commercially viable seat count of 298.
For comparison, EK seat 266, DL 297, AC 301 (new configuration).
Furthermore AI does not have approval to operate in the polar region, and that won't change anytime soon (they most likely never go through the regulatory process) and hence must take a slight detour (longer).
The flight does not even operate daily.
Do you seriously believe high yielding pax are going to choose that excuse of a airline over EK? Especially on the lucrative SFO-BLR segment?
Nobody in their right mind (except yourself of course) would choose AI's 3x week SFO-DEL-BLR (DEL-BLR is on a A321....) over EK's offering. Which is precisely why EK operates a A380 loaded to the gills.
Like it or not, EK is the worlds largest operator of the B777 and the only one to have operated every derivative, and that for nearly 20 years. They know a thing or two about operating the aircraft.
Hate on EK all you want, just don't start inventing fairy tales.
Are you high?
Air India seat 238 in their 3 -200LR's.
That is the lowest density of any carrier operating the aircraft. They have been operating with empty or 1 seat booked in the F cabin on average, 30-35% in J, and 50-60% in Y and that with rubbish yields.
Supposedly they will begin (finally) removing the F cabin and re-configuring to a more commercially viable seat count of 298.
For comparison, EK seat 266, DL 297, AC 301 (new configuration).
Furthermore AI does not have approval to operate in the polar region, and that won't change anytime soon (they most likely never go through the regulatory process) and hence must take a slight detour (longer).
The flight does not even operate daily.
Do you seriously believe high yielding pax are going to choose that excuse of a airline over EK? Especially on the lucrative SFO-BLR segment?
Nobody in their right mind (except yourself of course) would choose AI's 3x week SFO-DEL-BLR (DEL-BLR is on a A321....) over EK's offering. Which is precisely why EK operates a A380 loaded to the gills.
Like it or not, EK is the worlds largest operator of the B777 and the only one to have operated every derivative, and that for nearly 20 years. They know a thing or two about operating the aircraft.
Hate on EK all you want, just don't start inventing fairy tales.
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I am not sayin AI is a shining star, but at least it is not a sixth freedom carrier stealing others passengers.
AI is in current state because of capacity dumping by ME3.
@b-hkd
Are you complaining for AI 77Ls not being cattle carriers like others? I wouldn't change their 77L Y seat.
For you to claim AI F has 25% LF is hypocritical. It has daily total F capacity of 24 seats to US and EU combined (8xSFO,4xORD,4xJFK,4xEWR,4xLHR).
SFO route is more than 80% booked two months out.
Unlike US and EU carriers which retreat on the onset of ME3 presence, Indian carriers fight back, a major rub for EK.
AI not maintaining their planes is a EK paid PR stunt.
Guess what, EY bought 5 x AI 77Ls and Saudi bought 2 x AI 17 year old A332s, while EK A332s are going to scrap yard.
Why aren't your own neighbors not buying WELL maintained EK planes???
AI is in current state because of capacity dumping by ME3.
@b-hkd
Are you complaining for AI 77Ls not being cattle carriers like others? I wouldn't change their 77L Y seat.
For you to claim AI F has 25% LF is hypocritical. It has daily total F capacity of 24 seats to US and EU combined (8xSFO,4xORD,4xJFK,4xEWR,4xLHR).
SFO route is more than 80% booked two months out.
Unlike US and EU carriers which retreat on the onset of ME3 presence, Indian carriers fight back, a major rub for EK.
AI not maintaining their planes is a EK paid PR stunt.
Guess what, EY bought 5 x AI 77Ls and Saudi bought 2 x AI 17 year old A332s, while EK A332s are going to scrap yard.
Why aren't your own neighbors not buying WELL maintained EK planes???
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Neither were delivered new to AI. The former was operated by 13 operators the latter by 8.
Neither of them are owned by Saudia. In fact, they both went into storage for 6 months before being picked up by Turkish operator Onur Air. Who is operating them on a WET LEASE on behalf of Saudia. So please do yourself a favor and stop spreading bull****.
In addition, of the 14 former EK A332's, at least 5 have found new operators. EK could care less if most of these find a new home as they were mostly leased. They got their money's worth out of every single one of these frames as for years they represented the backbone of the fleet. As they spent a considerable amount of time in their last few years of service doing regional flying, they are mostly very high on cycles and thus more attractive second hand options exist in the market. When a lessee returns a aircraft to the lessor, it has to be returned in a contractually pre-determined condition/state. No issues here for EK.
This is how Air India maintains its aircraft by the way....
VT-ALH sat like this for 4 years at BOM, while being cannibalized for spare parts to support the rest of the AI B77L fleet. Improperly stored in hot/humid/polluted air for years and years aka CORROSION
On and when you do choose to fly AI's B777s in First Class, this is the seat that awaits you.
The stain is a nice touch of India
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Notapilot15
I wasn't aware airlines "Owned" passengers. So how EK be stealing passengers??
You check prices on any given route that EK flies on, it is rarely, I mean serious rarely anywhere near the cheapest. So let put this dumping tosh to bed habibi.
AI, is a mess, I have flown with Ex AI flight deck at EK, the stories they tell, are a very sad tale of a once great airline, full of corruption and political interference.
EK has quite clearly stated it welcomes competition, no rub.
EK's 330's are owned by leasing companies, the aircraft are returned as white tails at the end of service. What leasing co's do with the aircraft is up to them. Some have flown on, some haven't. Our neighbours, like EK buy new aircraft habibi.
SyB
I wasn't aware airlines "Owned" passengers. So how EK be stealing passengers??
You check prices on any given route that EK flies on, it is rarely, I mean serious rarely anywhere near the cheapest. So let put this dumping tosh to bed habibi.
AI, is a mess, I have flown with Ex AI flight deck at EK, the stories they tell, are a very sad tale of a once great airline, full of corruption and political interference.
EK has quite clearly stated it welcomes competition, no rub.
EK's 330's are owned by leasing companies, the aircraft are returned as white tails at the end of service. What leasing co's do with the aircraft is up to them. Some have flown on, some haven't. Our neighbours, like EK buy new aircraft habibi.
SyB