INSANITY
short flights long nights
Emma is spot on the money. Any action would cause the EK PR machine into overdrive. Pilots would not stand a chance. The public would hear story's of, limos to work, luxury accomodation, tax free salarys, Saftey is the number one priority.....ra ra ra.
And the would ground the airline if they had to, anything to save face.
And the would ground the airline if they had to, anything to save face.
Furby,
Your suggestion didn't work very well in 1989.
Your suggestion didn't work very well in 1989.
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Furbpilot
We must agree to disagree on some points. Striking is against the law. Giving anyone the finger is a Criminal Offence. Both are widely publicized. I don’t think a bunch of pilots would get special treatment and I think prosecution would be unavoidable. Nor do I think the rest of the world would have much sympathy or understanding for a group of finger raising, striking pilots.
You appear part of the problem. We are, or should be, professionals, not uneducated labour. Going straight for a strike before even attempting massive complaint through recognized channels in this place would be like ditching in preference to flying to an airfield with an engine failure. Both would result in a catastrophic and avoidable outcome.
On the issue that most of the pilots have no balls – I agree. Most complain but don’t put it down in writing. What they are scared of I don’t understand. As I said they are probably too stupid to articulate themselves or even understand the problems that affect their lives. “Root cause analysis” is a buzzword these days. It used to be common sense. But, what the heck, the whole profession is being dumbed down. Stupid people make good minions.
Pixy gets it. But then he’s probably smarter than most of the managers who themselves are dumbed down, self serving administrators, without the imagination to serve both parties. As suggested he’s probably from a different generation of pilots. Most of the company problems are relatively straightforward to address to everyone's benefit. But that level of sophistication has not caught on yet.
As for being slaves; everyone here is exploited labour. The price for the exploitation varies. But anyone who works for a big company is a slave to the machine…The 1%. It’s a global phenomenon.
We must agree to disagree on some points. Striking is against the law. Giving anyone the finger is a Criminal Offence. Both are widely publicized. I don’t think a bunch of pilots would get special treatment and I think prosecution would be unavoidable. Nor do I think the rest of the world would have much sympathy or understanding for a group of finger raising, striking pilots.
You appear part of the problem. We are, or should be, professionals, not uneducated labour. Going straight for a strike before even attempting massive complaint through recognized channels in this place would be like ditching in preference to flying to an airfield with an engine failure. Both would result in a catastrophic and avoidable outcome.
On the issue that most of the pilots have no balls – I agree. Most complain but don’t put it down in writing. What they are scared of I don’t understand. As I said they are probably too stupid to articulate themselves or even understand the problems that affect their lives. “Root cause analysis” is a buzzword these days. It used to be common sense. But, what the heck, the whole profession is being dumbed down. Stupid people make good minions.
Pixy gets it. But then he’s probably smarter than most of the managers who themselves are dumbed down, self serving administrators, without the imagination to serve both parties. As suggested he’s probably from a different generation of pilots. Most of the company problems are relatively straightforward to address to everyone's benefit. But that level of sophistication has not caught on yet.
As for being slaves; everyone here is exploited labour. The price for the exploitation varies. But anyone who works for a big company is a slave to the machine…The 1%. It’s a global phenomenon.
When it becomes irrational for you to stay ( ie the pay doesn't make up for the loss of lifestyle and health issues) , you will resign. It's pretty simple. You won't change the powers that be in DXB, so leave ( unless you'd rather stay and keep the pay) .
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The Power of Labor in the Internet Age
As for the proposed strike. How would you know that a thousand, a hundred or even 10 colleagues were to crusade loyally with you into the great uncertainty? So many colleagues have big mouths and raisin sized balls. Won't even carry a coffee by the FDM. Do you think you can trust them to follow through on a strike that is organized anonymously on the web? Most of them would just be happy to watch you sacrificing yourself for their benefit.
I tried writing seriously to the management before I walked out. Guess what the response was.
The one thing that seems to have gotten their attention was the WSJ article and complaints to various authorities. Honestly I think it can only be done after you leave but still have fresh evidence.
So here is my proposal. Let's get together as former pilots who still care, active pilots can contribute but stay out of the spotlight. Let's hit them where it hurts. The media, authorities and I think there are some interested parties in the US even in the presidential race. All of these channels are out of their control. They can't beat you once you left. The way EK is heading is a danger to the traveling public and an even bigger risk to anyone's health who is working as a pilot.
SOPS, Kap et al. What do you say? Feel free to PM me. Or just keep venting here.
I tried writing seriously to the management before I walked out. Guess what the response was.
The one thing that seems to have gotten their attention was the WSJ article and complaints to various authorities. Honestly I think it can only be done after you leave but still have fresh evidence.
So here is my proposal. Let's get together as former pilots who still care, active pilots can contribute but stay out of the spotlight. Let's hit them where it hurts. The media, authorities and I think there are some interested parties in the US even in the presidential race. All of these channels are out of their control. They can't beat you once you left. The way EK is heading is a danger to the traveling public and an even bigger risk to anyone's health who is working as a pilot.
SOPS, Kap et al. What do you say? Feel free to PM me. Or just keep venting here.
I had a look at studies on flight crew mortality. The fact is that (so far) there does not seem to be any concrete evidence that the changes in pilot's working conditions are showing up in the mortality rates.
The good news is that (probably because of healthy cohort effects e.g. pilots are a healthier than average at the start) mortality rates are lower than the general population. The well known increase in skin cancer risk is one known factor. The other much more elevated risk is of dying in a plane accident. Given these are mainly when private flying there is a facetious argument that the harder we work and the less money we make the longer we will probably live as we wont have the time or money to indulge in this.
On a more serious note I did come across an interesting study of increased mortality in higher status jobs in Japan following the economic downturn. There is evidence that increased stress and work has had a slightly negative effect on mortality. Other factors for example being unemployed have a much stronger correlation with reduced life expectancy.
Overall I cannot (yet) see anything that would make the bean counters pay attention. I think the only hope is market forces (running out of pilots). Even there the situation only in the last few weeks does not look good with Transaero probably in trouble, Air France anouncing a long haul fleet reduction, Air Berlin and probably several also reducing their requirement for pilots.
I think a point will come where it is recognised that happy (and probably more healthy employees) are of benefit to airlines. Sadly I do not think we have reached that point yet with most of our employers. However a long term study focussing on Emirates and Ryanair would be most interesting. It is probably unlikely though to be supported by them.
The good news is that (probably because of healthy cohort effects e.g. pilots are a healthier than average at the start) mortality rates are lower than the general population. The well known increase in skin cancer risk is one known factor. The other much more elevated risk is of dying in a plane accident. Given these are mainly when private flying there is a facetious argument that the harder we work and the less money we make the longer we will probably live as we wont have the time or money to indulge in this.
On a more serious note I did come across an interesting study of increased mortality in higher status jobs in Japan following the economic downturn. There is evidence that increased stress and work has had a slightly negative effect on mortality. Other factors for example being unemployed have a much stronger correlation with reduced life expectancy.
Overall I cannot (yet) see anything that would make the bean counters pay attention. I think the only hope is market forces (running out of pilots). Even there the situation only in the last few weeks does not look good with Transaero probably in trouble, Air France anouncing a long haul fleet reduction, Air Berlin and probably several also reducing their requirement for pilots.
I think a point will come where it is recognised that happy (and probably more healthy employees) are of benefit to airlines. Sadly I do not think we have reached that point yet with most of our employers. However a long term study focussing on Emirates and Ryanair would be most interesting. It is probably unlikely though to be supported by them.
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Anyone joining a ME carrier has to be a zero self respect idiot
Furby is a former EK pilot who left some years ago just to come back on his knees a few months later begging to be rehired with very little success..
He's not capable of making a point without spitting venom like a fat cobra.
tz
An absolutely lovely person and human being, I had the pleasure of having her as my F/O on a couple of trips.
That being said, this is a deliberate tactic of the company to portray certain things in a positive light based around the perspective of one individual, it should be viewed that way and in the context of the local big wallahs wanting more females in the workforce.
If any of you are naive enough to believe that one newspaper article=sweetness and enlightenment, then quite frankly you need to seek a professional physiatrist who will help you with your delusions.
That being said, this is a deliberate tactic of the company to portray certain things in a positive light based around the perspective of one individual, it should be viewed that way and in the context of the local big wallahs wanting more females in the workforce.
If any of you are naive enough to believe that one newspaper article=sweetness and enlightenment, then quite frankly you need to seek a professional physiatrist who will help you with your delusions.
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Originally Posted by emratty
A picture in front of an engine at an outstation....a couple of pilots got fired for that a few years ago.
and so photography on the apron was not really a 'top 100 common sense' thing to do!
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Security wasn't the reason they got fired though.
It was customer complaints - the pax saw the crew and assumed the ongoing delay to their flight was due to crew/engine selfies. "Embarrass" the brand n all that...
It was customer complaints - the pax saw the crew and assumed the ongoing delay to their flight was due to crew/engine selfies. "Embarrass" the brand n all that...
