The dramatic A380 landing
777 FCTM
Had to point this out to the SFI/TRI etc on my last manual handling sim when he mentioned I was slightly left of the centre line in a crabbed landing 
You got to love it when the teachers don't even know what they are teaching
Crosswind Landing Techniques
Three methods of performing crosswind landings are presented. They are the de-crab technique (with removal of crab in flare), touchdown in a crab, and the sideslip technique. Whenever a crab is maintained during a crosswind approach, offset the flight deck on the upwind side of centerline so that the main gear touches down in the center of the runway.
Three methods of performing crosswind landings are presented. They are the de-crab technique (with removal of crab in flare), touchdown in a crab, and the sideslip technique. Whenever a crab is maintained during a crosswind approach, offset the flight deck on the upwind side of centerline so that the main gear touches down in the center of the runway.
You got to love it when the teachers don't even know what they are teaching
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MM
Maybe he was trying to be subtle, rather than directly point out your nose was actually over the grass! And for the record, a TRI and SFI are different.
You got to love it when line guys don't even know who's doing their teaching!
Harry
Maybe he was trying to be subtle, rather than directly point out your nose was actually over the grass! And for the record, a TRI and SFI are different.
You got to love it when line guys don't even know who's doing their teaching!
Harry
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The A380 s flown on centerline and decrabed in the flare. In high winds a approx 2 deg bank into the wind is possible to stop drift.
North Flyer, there is nothing wrong with actually knowing facts about your airplane. After 40 years in aviation maybe it time to sit behind that hangar all the time anyway...Skaal
North Flyer, there is nothing wrong with actually knowing facts about your airplane. After 40 years in aviation maybe it time to sit behind that hangar all the time anyway...Skaal
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Monarch your quote and presumably what you so knowledgeably pointed out to your TRI says to aim upwind so the main gear touches down on the centre line, the main gear...are you serious? The technique mentioned by Speedy from the FCTM is of course correct. Its the same way the autopilot achieves it in an autoland, rudder to decrab and a little into wind to prevent/correct any drift...The autopilot applies the wing drop as it is straightening and as such stays tracking the LOC. In a manual landing your nose "appears" to drift down wind as you straighten so you should apply wing drop in the same manner. The technique error arises by pilots not recognising or anticipating this drift early enough, as the AP does and therefor applying wing drop after straightening from a downwind position. They then think by aiming upwind next time all will work.....and it does but all they and you are doing is masking poor technique.
Nice one Harold
Play the man and not the ball eh? Given that YOU weren't there, I'll assume your comment is based on ignorance, otherwise I'll make an assumption just like you have, you are speaking out of your rectum and what spouts forth is bovine manure.
Jebus, I'm struggling to make sense of your comments given that I am very serious in that to make sure the mains touch down on the centreline whilst crabbed, you must, given a couple of geometric certainties offset the nose of the aircraft upwind to ensure that this happens. What have I missed? The instructor or TRI/SFI etc, was not only ignorant of this reality, he went as far as to suggest that this was an incorrect technique. My point to him was the exact opposite and I mentioned that his opinion/technique/personal preference/feeling in his bones was mistaken.
What you describe with respect to maintaining the centreline is the technique for de crabbing in the flare and tracking the centreline with a combination of aileron and rudder inputs. A forward slip approach tends to make the poor punters in the back sick which is why I haven't practised it in anything other than the 777F.
It's not about poor piloting technique, it's what's appropriate for the conditions.
It's not that hard if it's taught properly by people that actually have a clue about what they are doing, which brings me back to my original point.
MM
Maybe he was trying to be subtle, rather than directly point out your nose was actually over the grass! And for the record, a TRI and SFI are different.
You got to love it when line guys don't even know who's doing their teaching!
Harry
Maybe he was trying to be subtle, rather than directly point out your nose was actually over the grass! And for the record, a TRI and SFI are different.
You got to love it when line guys don't even know who's doing their teaching!
Harry
Jebus, I'm struggling to make sense of your comments given that I am very serious in that to make sure the mains touch down on the centreline whilst crabbed, you must, given a couple of geometric certainties offset the nose of the aircraft upwind to ensure that this happens. What have I missed? The instructor or TRI/SFI etc, was not only ignorant of this reality, he went as far as to suggest that this was an incorrect technique. My point to him was the exact opposite and I mentioned that his opinion/technique/personal preference/feeling in his bones was mistaken.
What you describe with respect to maintaining the centreline is the technique for de crabbing in the flare and tracking the centreline with a combination of aileron and rudder inputs. A forward slip approach tends to make the poor punters in the back sick which is why I haven't practised it in anything other than the 777F.
It's not about poor piloting technique, it's what's appropriate for the conditions.
It's not that hard if it's taught properly by people that actually have a clue about what they are doing, which brings me back to my original point.
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MM
Actually, my comment was based on a little humour and a wind up hence that last line. Keep the blue side up old boy and maybe a few chill pills with a beer or two wouldn't harm you.
Harold
Actually, my comment was based on a little humour and a wind up hence that last line. Keep the blue side up old boy and maybe a few chill pills with a beer or two wouldn't harm you.
Harold
MM, when flying a CAT 1 to minima do you offset from the LLZ to upwind if there is a crosswind?
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Looked alright to me. Nice stable approach, slightly late taking the drift off but safe landing in the right place. It always amazes me how wrapped up some people get about expecting perfection in relatively unusual circumstances. Yep, I reckon I do at most 2 or 3 landings a year with a serious crosswind (outside of the sim).
I never look at the localiser below minima, the instrument outside the window always seems much more interesting. I know the manuals say reference the localiser but personally I always drift a tad upwind on short final to try and put the main wheels down on the centreline but that is only because the bogey on the big bus is so wide. It is not SOP but it makes me feel more comfortable. The outer downwind wheel is 7 m from the centreline without wind so maybe 15m away at max crosswind. Any drift downwind puts it quite close to the edge on a 45m runway and I remember from board games it is critical to keep the dice on the IPS.
I never look at the localiser below minima, the instrument outside the window always seems much more interesting. I know the manuals say reference the localiser but personally I always drift a tad upwind on short final to try and put the main wheels down on the centreline but that is only because the bogey on the big bus is so wide. It is not SOP but it makes me feel more comfortable. The outer downwind wheel is 7 m from the centreline without wind so maybe 15m away at max crosswind. Any drift downwind puts it quite close to the edge on a 45m runway and I remember from board games it is critical to keep the dice on the IPS.
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LOC antennae is located in the nose of the A380 and it looks pretty much as though the cockpit was tracing the centreline all the way down to the flare. Doing a strong crosswind landing on the A380 (especially on a 45m wide runway) is a challenge (take a 60m runway if available). The aircraft does not like landing with side force on the gear and it is critical to get it straight at touchdown for that reason.
The crosswind training in the sim is nothing like the reality of the real thing, the sim = 700fpm on any approach for the slope and in the real world with gusty variable winds that RoD requires adjustment. The HUGE tailplane/rudder is very effective at getting the aircraft straight very quickly. The whole postioning of the aircraft into the flare/decrab is a skill which is not practiced or used that often, that makes it harder still.
The Bus has an ability to pick up a dropped wing itself and that can be compounded by the pilot wanting to naturally input roll into the sidestick when using rudder to straigthen the aircraft which compounds a roll problem if done like so. Practice makes perfect and we don't get that much practice.
J
The crosswind training in the sim is nothing like the reality of the real thing, the sim = 700fpm on any approach for the slope and in the real world with gusty variable winds that RoD requires adjustment. The HUGE tailplane/rudder is very effective at getting the aircraft straight very quickly. The whole postioning of the aircraft into the flare/decrab is a skill which is not practiced or used that often, that makes it harder still.
The Bus has an ability to pick up a dropped wing itself and that can be compounded by the pilot wanting to naturally input roll into the sidestick when using rudder to straigthen the aircraft which compounds a roll problem if done like so. Practice makes perfect and we don't get that much practice.
J
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"The aircraft does not like landing with side force on the gear and it is critical to get it straight at touchdown for that reason."
What a delicate and mincing device that must be. You may compare it to the competition:
"The airplane can land using crab only (zero sideslip) up to the landing crosswind
guideline speeds"
Good thing all the geniuses and astronauts are on the whale.
What a delicate and mincing device that must be. You may compare it to the competition:
"The airplane can land using crab only (zero sideslip) up to the landing crosswind
guideline speeds"
Good thing all the geniuses and astronauts are on the whale.
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Well, it certainly isn't built like a tractor....
Seriously though, the FCOM does allow 5 degrees of crab on touchdown. I think much more than that would start to get uncomfortable for the passengers anyway.
Seriously though, the FCOM does allow 5 degrees of crab on touchdown. I think much more than that would start to get uncomfortable for the passengers anyway.
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The amount of experience shown by the posters here make me soo HAPPY to know that you "Astronauts" will make sure that I have the "Ultimate Flying Experience" and be in "THE" most capable hands, whilst flying in the back (with an Adult Beverage of course).
Now stop all this nonsense!!
I'm bored already
Now stop all this nonsense!!
I'm bored already
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@ Fearless, I think the correct spelling is "Austronauts" to be precise. It is a true fact that the Australians were going to be the first country into space back in the 60s. The only reason they never made it is because they are still briefing!
j
j
Don,
No, but after transitioning to the visual, if there is any significant crosswind and corresponding drift, then I do as a matter of technique ensure that the mains touch down on the centreline, which may or may not require offsetting the nose to the upwind side of the centreline. It's a minor correction to make.
MM, when flying a CAT 1 to minima do you offset from the LLZ to upwind if there is a crosswind?