Emirates DEC
and interviewing and saying ...OK we can't offer you the left seat but the right seat... is a 
on the face... 
It's called protecting the business Dave, this is why there is an assessment. Not all commanders are equal. It's up to the individual if they want to accept the job or not.
The ones they think will never make the left seat won't get the offer.
Surely it's not that hard a concept to understand.
The ones they think will never make the left seat won't get the offer.
Surely it's not that hard a concept to understand.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's called protecting the business Dave, this is why there is an assessment. Not all commanders are equal. It's up to the individual if they want to accept the job or not.
Maybe you would rather them not making any offers?
That is pretty common in most contracts worldwide that offer DEC positions..., a lot of guys that I know were offered F/O positions instead of DEC after assessment are now captains...., they didn't take the ridiculous pride stance and after a couple of years of gaining more experience are now on the left seat.
What's wrong with that...?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the 4th Stripe -
Don and Dom
I think you got my message out of context. I FULLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT... whats specific to this case is that its with ref to EK who have a lot of F/O's already in the company eligible and competent for hiring onto the left seat. I am aware QR and "XYZ" have also hired Capts as F/O's. And many DECs that applied to EK as FO's in the past were hired as FO's regardless of their previous experience.
If EK choose to open up DEC and call someone for the job and then say OK your not good enough to go left now but you can go right, well keep in mind if that individual wanted to come as an F/O he would have applied for an F/O position. So telling the guy your not up the mark is disrespectful.
All that said ! I know of one DEC with an interesting flying record and most importantly he's got an exemplary CRM record so the recruitment team clearly slipped up.
Desperate times call for desperate measures! Provided its done the right way
I think you got my message out of context. I FULLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT... whats specific to this case is that its with ref to EK who have a lot of F/O's already in the company eligible and competent for hiring onto the left seat. I am aware QR and "XYZ" have also hired Capts as F/O's. And many DECs that applied to EK as FO's in the past were hired as FO's regardless of their previous experience.
If EK choose to open up DEC and call someone for the job and then say OK your not good enough to go left now but you can go right, well keep in mind if that individual wanted to come as an F/O he would have applied for an F/O position. So telling the guy your not up the mark is disrespectful.
All that said ! I know of one DEC with an interesting flying record and most importantly he's got an exemplary CRM record so the recruitment team clearly slipped up.
Desperate times call for desperate measures! Provided its done the right way
The recruitment team get to see someone for a few hours over a few days. They get 40min to see them operate the SIM on a profile that the candidate already knows. To tell everything about someone's past in that time is impossible. Reference checks are the only help, but doubtful true references will be given if something is dodgy. The recruitment team do a great job. So do training, some DEC don't pass the course if they don't make the grade.
It's not rocket science. If you feel disrespected because companies aren't falling over to make you a DEC I suggest you may need to Harden up.
It's not rocket science. If you feel disrespected because companies aren't falling over to make you a DEC I suggest you may need to Harden up.
How is it disrespectful to tell someone they won't make the grade-sounds like a simple and realistic statement of fact. If it offends you then maybe it is time for some self reflection. Just because you already hold a LHS somewhere does not guarantee you meet the necessary requirements of the new job you are applying for. If someone does not meet the required standard on a check is it 'disrespectful' to award a fail???? It would be if the same logic is applied-that is why we say our jobs are on the line every 6 months-nothing is guaranteed.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To a pilot that thinks his job is on the line every 6 months well your in the wrong profession, the truth is every flight puts our job on the line. A fellow pilot once told me hours of boredom and seconds of terror so you need to be at your best regardless.
Keep in mind I am not saying its wrong to put down a person thats not up to the mark for any position at the end of the day every pilot needs to be proficient.
But if you know of a single pilot that APPLIED FOR DEC and ACCEPTED to join EK as an FO I arrest my case,
until that I didn't waste my time doing a minor in Human Psychology for nothing. Which the EK recruitment seems to know a lot about ...or not. And for the record I'm still a humble FO....
Bon Vol
Keep in mind I am not saying its wrong to put down a person thats not up to the mark for any position at the end of the day every pilot needs to be proficient.
But if you know of a single pilot that APPLIED FOR DEC and ACCEPTED to join EK as an FO I arrest my case,
until that I didn't waste my time doing a minor in Human Psychology for nothing. Which the EK recruitment seems to know a lot about ...or not. And for the record I'm still a humble FO....
Bon Vol
Last edited by A320CaptDav; 14th Dec 2015 at 16:45.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave
I know two.
One a long time WB freighter and military Capt, came as DEC got offered FO to get familiar with pax OPS, took the job, now a skipper. The other too specific to give details on and kept the dynamics of alternate offer pvt.
You've been arrested.
I know two.
One a long time WB freighter and military Capt, came as DEC got offered FO to get familiar with pax OPS, took the job, now a skipper. The other too specific to give details on and kept the dynamics of alternate offer pvt.
You've been arrested.
Last edited by fliion; 14th Dec 2015 at 17:28.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LEFT TO RIGHT, RIGHT TO LEFT
fliion - you have my hands up
P.S - This company is having problems getting the 'right' F/Os I think they are gonna have a bigger problem getting the RIGHT DECs
P.S - This company is having problems getting the 'right' F/Os I think they are gonna have a bigger problem getting the RIGHT DECs
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Not sure now
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
P.S - This company is having problems getting the 'right' F/Os I think they are gonna have a bigger problem getting the RIGHT DECs
Has a certain country in South America ran out of guys with parker pen captain time?
TP
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Star
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is also a couple of guys who failed the NAC portion of the course and were offered FO positions. But only a couple in either case.
Truth or fiction?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NAC = Nomination As Commander. The potential DEC does the full course as any FO would, then does the NAC course.
And yes, only two DECs from the latest round of DECs on 330. No 777 DEC seen yet this time around which is as expected of course since it would take a few months to join from getting the offer.
And yes, only two DECs from the latest round of DECs on 330. No 777 DEC seen yet this time around which is as expected of course since it would take a few months to join from getting the offer.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reality Bites!
In the 2012 recruitment rush, the company hired about 87 DECs (50 B777 and 37 A330). The company argued that at the time it had an operational need, and no one would be disadvantaged.
During the last 12 months, they have hired 10 B777 DECs and 11 A330 DECs. Hundreds of FOs on the B777 have completed selection, have upgrade letters and are waiting courses have all been bypassed. Time to command at EK is now much longer than previously reported.
Mods - to keep it all together, could we pls merge this thread with http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58...-s-coming.html
During the last 12 months, they have hired 10 B777 DECs and 11 A330 DECs. Hundreds of FOs on the B777 have completed selection, have upgrade letters and are waiting courses have all been bypassed. Time to command at EK is now much longer than previously reported.
Mods - to keep it all together, could we pls merge this thread with http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58...-s-coming.html
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the 2012 recruitment rush, the company hired about 87 DECs (50 B777 and 37 A330). The company argued that at the time it had an operational need, and no one would be disadvantaged.
During the last 12 months, they have hired 10 B777 DECs and 11 A330 DECs. Hundreds of FOs on the B777 have completed selection, have upgrade letters and are waiting courses have all been bypassed. Time to command at EK is now much longer than previously reported.
Mods - to keep it all together, could we pls merge this thread with http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58...-s-coming.html
During the last 12 months, they have hired 10 B777 DECs and 11 A330 DECs. Hundreds of FOs on the B777 have completed selection, have upgrade letters and are waiting courses have all been bypassed. Time to command at EK is now much longer than previously reported.
Mods - to keep it all together, could we pls merge this thread with http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58...-s-coming.html
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree , please provide details as a the FO's being by passed. DECs are for a short fall in FO recruitment, some pilots can't seem to figure that out. An upgrade requires 2 news hires, without new hires no upgrades. Back fill with DECs
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“I don't really see how FOs are being bypassed. Recent NaC course participants have approx 4 years 9 months in the company.”
The recruitment of B777 DECs occurred when upgrade courses were effectively on hold. Almost nobody was upgraded for 9 months last year and we all sat around wondering when it would start again. People got so tired with the company and they started leaving, so the replacement training cost was horrendous. We burned out the trainers because for every TRE that resigned we needed to upgrade a replacement TRI, and for every TRI upgrade a line captain, and for every line captain train a DEC (company decision) or delay a FO, and for every FO that resigned beg the recruiters to find a replacement FO who didn’t mind filling the ranks for 4yrs and 9months before upgrade. So people were inadvertently delayed or bypassed when DEC were recruited, inducted and trained.
The Airbus guys had it even worse because they had the smaller fleet. The portal shows some of the early A330 DECs have already moved to the A380, the remaining A330 DECs have been assigned A380 courses by end of 2016. There is no short fall in FO recruitment on the A380 but the guys who transition do not have the OM-A command requirements - some of these guys have less than 300hrs and 6 months on the line at EK and they are becoming A380 skippers. @The Crew might argue that this is nothing more than A380 DEC recruitment by stealth, but clearly any FO who was in the company for the last 4yrs 9 months and who has greater than 300hrs of combined Airbus time has had the effect of being bypassed.
We all know that the two course argument is not valid, because DECs do a full type course and then they do a full NaC upgrade course. The DEC training cost and timeline causes delays to others in the pipeline.
AFAIK there is no bypass policy at EK or compensation paid to those effected.
Last edited by The Guru; 24th Jul 2016 at 12:44. Reason: 50 + 37 + 10 + 11 is greater than 100, within the last 4yrs 9 months!
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airbus fleet takes even better.
not long ago direct entry FO had been hired directly to the A380. some A330 FO especially with A340 had been delayed to transfer to the 380. most of the Direct joiners have not the required 2000 widebody upfront EK, which are required by the OMA.
Now today these FO reach the 2000hr mark on the 380 and starting the CCP courses, while all the A330/340 guys not having the 380hr are delayed again, because the company does not recognize the A330 time for the 380 upgrade.
witch means even an FO with 1500 - 2000 hr on A330 and sometimes more than 4 years in EK starts at 0 again and can fly with numbers having just 2,5 years in the company on the left. beside of the lost money for these guys.
not long ago direct entry FO had been hired directly to the A380. some A330 FO especially with A340 had been delayed to transfer to the 380. most of the Direct joiners have not the required 2000 widebody upfront EK, which are required by the OMA.
Now today these FO reach the 2000hr mark on the 380 and starting the CCP courses, while all the A330/340 guys not having the 380hr are delayed again, because the company does not recognize the A330 time for the 380 upgrade.
witch means even an FO with 1500 - 2000 hr on A330 and sometimes more than 4 years in EK starts at 0 again and can fly with numbers having just 2,5 years in the company on the left. beside of the lost money for these guys.