How about flydubai???
Supercharged PPRuNer
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FO Monthly Salary
Basic: AED17,000
Housing: AED 12,600
Transport: 2,000
Flight Pay: AED125 / block hour (actual time, not scheduled)
If you fly 80hrs (and that's a quiet month these days) it works out to around AED41,600. Obviously less if you take annual leave.
Rosters . . .
Can be great for a few at the top of the seniority list, but increasingly grim the more junior you get. Bottom line is we are very short of crew, more people are leaving all the time, and rostering are trying to cover an ever increasing flying programme with an inadequate number of pilots. And that's putting it politely. Expect to do much / most of your flying at night, with plenty of 20hr rest periods and flipping from nights to early starts. Fatigue reports increasing by the month, but hey - "It's legal Captain" so obviously there's no problem. Rosters are the biggest single reason why so many people are leaving.
Work Environment
Assuming you survive the journey to work, and manage to get parked, and remember to NOT take your cup of coffee through security, you'll be ready for a sit-down. The good news is that once the doors close and the mobiles are off, it's usually a pretty good day out (or night). Most colleagues are great; professional operators with a good handle on CRM. Naturally there are some exceptions to the rule, but every company has them. Shiny new aircraft - normally you jump in, turn the key and they work. If you're reasonably competent / standard and can resist making "500' stable" a target rather than a limit, you'll be fine.
Upgrades
Young, growing airline, plenty of movement, chance of command within a couple of years of joining - in theory it's the best gig in town. In theory. In reality it's a bit of a lottery. You'll need 'good' scores in two consecutive sims, and some of the judging criteria is pretty subjective, so much depends on who you get as a trainer. Some very competent FOs - with previous command experience - have been held back for pretty dubious reasons. More than a few FOs have paid to buy out their bond and leave, rather than hang on for command. That tells you a story.
P.S. I wouldn't worry about the sunscreen. Eye shades and ear plugs would be more useful out here.
Basic: AED17,000
Housing: AED 12,600
Transport: 2,000
Flight Pay: AED125 / block hour (actual time, not scheduled)
If you fly 80hrs (and that's a quiet month these days) it works out to around AED41,600. Obviously less if you take annual leave.
Rosters . . .
Can be great for a few at the top of the seniority list, but increasingly grim the more junior you get. Bottom line is we are very short of crew, more people are leaving all the time, and rostering are trying to cover an ever increasing flying programme with an inadequate number of pilots. And that's putting it politely. Expect to do much / most of your flying at night, with plenty of 20hr rest periods and flipping from nights to early starts. Fatigue reports increasing by the month, but hey - "It's legal Captain" so obviously there's no problem. Rosters are the biggest single reason why so many people are leaving.
Work Environment
Assuming you survive the journey to work, and manage to get parked, and remember to NOT take your cup of coffee through security, you'll be ready for a sit-down. The good news is that once the doors close and the mobiles are off, it's usually a pretty good day out (or night). Most colleagues are great; professional operators with a good handle on CRM. Naturally there are some exceptions to the rule, but every company has them. Shiny new aircraft - normally you jump in, turn the key and they work. If you're reasonably competent / standard and can resist making "500' stable" a target rather than a limit, you'll be fine.
Upgrades
Young, growing airline, plenty of movement, chance of command within a couple of years of joining - in theory it's the best gig in town. In theory. In reality it's a bit of a lottery. You'll need 'good' scores in two consecutive sims, and some of the judging criteria is pretty subjective, so much depends on who you get as a trainer. Some very competent FOs - with previous command experience - have been held back for pretty dubious reasons. More than a few FOs have paid to buy out their bond and leave, rather than hang on for command. That tells you a story.
P.S. I wouldn't worry about the sunscreen. Eye shades and ear plugs would be more useful out here.
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Hi G SXTY,
Thanks for a clear and concise answer, please may I jump in here and ask 2 questions, I am sure this has been covered in the other thread, so I apologize in advance...
1) Is there any form of pension or provident fund at Flydubai? If not then what are the guys/gals doing regarding a pension/provident fund.
2) Would one say that Flydubai would be an airline that would be a long term career, or is it used as a "steppingstone" to gain experience in order to join another airline, for example Emirates etc.
I thank you very much in advance for any constructive advice/opinions
Thanks for a clear and concise answer, please may I jump in here and ask 2 questions, I am sure this has been covered in the other thread, so I apologize in advance...
1) Is there any form of pension or provident fund at Flydubai? If not then what are the guys/gals doing regarding a pension/provident fund.
2) Would one say that Flydubai would be an airline that would be a long term career, or is it used as a "steppingstone" to gain experience in order to join another airline, for example Emirates etc.
I thank you very much in advance for any constructive advice/opinions
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Fuzuma,
No, there is no pension or anything remotely like that here at FZ. Probably never will be either as it would now cost way to much to implement.
As a career FZ is not a good option. As a stepping stone, yes, providing you regard the stepping stones as crocodiles, and watch where you put your feet.
https://youtu.be/OhUlXS09lM0
No, there is no pension or anything remotely like that here at FZ. Probably never will be either as it would now cost way to much to implement.
As a career FZ is not a good option. As a stepping stone, yes, providing you regard the stepping stones as crocodiles, and watch where you put your feet.
https://youtu.be/OhUlXS09lM0
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Spot on
I agree with all of the above. 100% accurate.
If you're thinking of FZ, please read all of this VERY CAREFULLY. If you're coming as a stepping stone, it might be a good move (though if you want an upgrade it's a bit of a lottery, as said before). Be prepared to do a few years, then move on with jet experience, but maybe not LHS time. You might be lucky, you might not.
If you've got a family, be very aware of the cost of living per month. If you want a house with a garden (I know, crazy expectations here!), be prepared to pay all of your housing allowance and maybe more. If you're single, you'll be fine. Especially if you don't mind sharing with a friend.
If you're coming as a captain, you'll be at the bottom of a very long list for a VERY long time. Most people joining at the bottom can't take the levels of and fatigue for more than a few years before something has to change. If you're dreaming of commuting, dream on. You'll probably lose your family, sanity or health before long.
If however you're out of a job then its a great place to come! They pay you every month and don't really bother you when you're not on duty. (Apart from the odd condescending email asking why you took 3 kg too much fuel or pushed back a minute earlier than you're supposed to.)
Most people here always have one eye on the exit, and at the moment, with the market picking up elsewhere, quite a lot are heading in that direction. Quite a lot more are adopting a wait-and-see attitude, maybe for another few months or a year. But if nothing changes this year, (and I suspect it won't) with regards rosters/pay/fatigue/housing/transport/retirement (delete as appropriate) then the current outflow of people will continue. It will be very interesting to see in January how many pilots have flown the nest.
If you're thinking of FZ, please read all of this VERY CAREFULLY. If you're coming as a stepping stone, it might be a good move (though if you want an upgrade it's a bit of a lottery, as said before). Be prepared to do a few years, then move on with jet experience, but maybe not LHS time. You might be lucky, you might not.
If you've got a family, be very aware of the cost of living per month. If you want a house with a garden (I know, crazy expectations here!), be prepared to pay all of your housing allowance and maybe more. If you're single, you'll be fine. Especially if you don't mind sharing with a friend.
If you're coming as a captain, you'll be at the bottom of a very long list for a VERY long time. Most people joining at the bottom can't take the levels of
and fatigue for more than a few years before something has to change. If you're dreaming of commuting, dream on. You'll probably lose your family, sanity or health before long.If however you're out of a job then its a great place to come! They pay you every month and don't really bother you when you're not on duty. (Apart from the odd condescending email asking why you took 3 kg too much fuel or pushed back a minute earlier than you're supposed to.)
Most people here always have one eye on the exit, and at the moment, with the market picking up elsewhere, quite a lot are heading in that direction. Quite a lot more are adopting a wait-and-see attitude, maybe for another few months or a year. But if nothing changes this year, (and I suspect it won't) with regards rosters/pay/fatigue/housing/transport/retirement (delete as appropriate) then the current outflow of people will continue. It will be very interesting to see in January how many pilots have flown the nest.
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Thanks for all the honest answers/opinions, it is greatly appreciated. So if one had to come to Dubai on a long term, as is my case, if FZ is not necessarily considered a long term career airline, would Emirates be more to where I should be looking?
I am very aware of all the opinions on Emirates, so I'm not going in uneducated, and don't need lectures, just honest constructive opinions on what would be a better airline environment to apply for....for lack of a better term, the lesser evil?
Once again thanks in advance, it's hugely appreciated!
I am very aware of all the opinions on Emirates, so I'm not going in uneducated, and don't need lectures, just honest constructive opinions on what would be a better airline environment to apply for....for lack of a better term, the lesser evil?
Once again thanks in advance, it's hugely appreciated!
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Guys and Gals out there
There is a lot written about the outfits in the pit, the big 3 and the smaller ones.
You should get a pretty accurate picture about the situation. Having new questions popping up almost weekly shows that either you were too lazy to search or you simply don't want to believe what's written.
Research and believe is what i would urgently prescribe, asking the same questions all over again will certainly not change the sad situation, not even for you.
Generally speaking: The salary with all the allowances will be enough for a single FO. You will be able to live a somewhat acceptable lifestyle and you will be able to put a little bit aside. It will however not be enough to fill your retirement piglet. If you come with a family, unfortunately the packages are simply insufficient in every aspect.
Life in the pit will be bearable to begin with but will wear you out within a year or two. The staffing and rostering are without exception planned to the thinnest minimum, meaning little leave (at EK not even the legal minimum) and in short bursts, rostering will be limited to very few days off in a row. There is a system behind this all over the sandpit: To keep you there to spend whatever little money is left at the end of the month and to limit the possibilities for interviews with other airlines. You will feel stuck and the longer it lasts, the less you can escape the trap.
We all know that you guys and gals work in hell, that anything else is better, especially when the jets seem bigger and shinier. Even the salary seems abundant, compared to what you make and have to let go in taxes. We all thought the same and, believe me, we all did our homework and are basically not very much dumber than you.
If you really want to leave for greener pastures, or if you have to leave, still consider the above. There are similarly good packages all around Asia. Maybe China, Vietnam or other countries do not have the same appeal as DXB or AUH, but this all wears out so fast you would not believe it. What remains is your escape, be that monthly or yearly.
Choose wisely. Choose the outfit that gives you the possibility to get out and home regularly, you will need it. What actually happens with the mentioned outfits in the pit is nothing less than a trap. As long as there is the possibility to go without any accountability in respect of breaking contracts and promises, i would be extremely reluctant to quit your job and come here.
They are able to get away by not giving you the contractual amount of leave, they can give the remaining in tiny portions of 4 days and still get 80h/m out of you. They can limit bidding and rostering to a maximum of 5 consecutive days off (not cumulative over 2 periods) and if you are lucky you might get one of those stretches every third month.
That means you can go with almost a year without possibility to get to your home country.
Salary, shiny jets and even a (presumably) shorter path to command can never compensate for the above. You might think that you can live with it for a few years, but you will have a hard time getting a partner, not to speak retaining one. But more importantly you will learn that with 45deg outside and almost everyone outside the pilot job having left for leave for 2 months in summer, your sanity is on a tough test.
There is a lot written about the outfits in the pit, the big 3 and the smaller ones.
You should get a pretty accurate picture about the situation. Having new questions popping up almost weekly shows that either you were too lazy to search or you simply don't want to believe what's written.
Research and believe is what i would urgently prescribe, asking the same questions all over again will certainly not change the sad situation, not even for you.
Generally speaking: The salary with all the allowances will be enough for a single FO. You will be able to live a somewhat acceptable lifestyle and you will be able to put a little bit aside. It will however not be enough to fill your retirement piglet. If you come with a family, unfortunately the packages are simply insufficient in every aspect.
Life in the pit will be bearable to begin with but will wear you out within a year or two. The staffing and rostering are without exception planned to the thinnest minimum, meaning little leave (at EK not even the legal minimum) and in short bursts, rostering will be limited to very few days off in a row. There is a system behind this all over the sandpit: To keep you there to spend whatever little money is left at the end of the month and to limit the possibilities for interviews with other airlines. You will feel stuck and the longer it lasts, the less you can escape the trap.
We all know that you guys and gals work in hell, that anything else is better, especially when the jets seem bigger and shinier. Even the salary seems abundant, compared to what you make and have to let go in taxes. We all thought the same and, believe me, we all did our homework and are basically not very much dumber than you.
If you really want to leave for greener pastures, or if you have to leave, still consider the above. There are similarly good packages all around Asia. Maybe China, Vietnam or other countries do not have the same appeal as DXB or AUH, but this all wears out so fast you would not believe it. What remains is your escape, be that monthly or yearly.
Choose wisely. Choose the outfit that gives you the possibility to get out and home regularly, you will need it. What actually happens with the mentioned outfits in the pit is nothing less than a trap. As long as there is the possibility to go without any accountability in respect of breaking contracts and promises, i would be extremely reluctant to quit your job and come here.
They are able to get away by not giving you the contractual amount of leave, they can give the remaining in tiny portions of 4 days and still get 80h/m out of you. They can limit bidding and rostering to a maximum of 5 consecutive days off (not cumulative over 2 periods) and if you are lucky you might get one of those stretches every third month.
That means you can go with almost a year without possibility to get to your home country.
Salary, shiny jets and even a (presumably) shorter path to command can never compensate for the above. You might think that you can live with it for a few years, but you will have a hard time getting a partner, not to speak retaining one. But more importantly you will learn that with 45deg outside and almost everyone outside the pilot job having left for leave for 2 months in summer, your sanity is on a tough test.
Last edited by glofish; 16th Sep 2015 at 10:56.
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Fuzuma,
If you've read it all then you probably already know what people will say. If you are looking for something different, i.e. a positive spin on life here, be prepared to not find it.
There is more than enough written within this forum for you to make a sound judgement on joining a ME carrier. You have had the warnings, the rest my friend is up to you.
Good luck
P.S. What works for some, doesn't work for others. With that in mind, only you can make the decision to come here or not. Most of my friends are leaving if that helps...
I am very aware of all the opinions on Emirates, so I'm not going in uneducated, and don't need lectures, just honest constructive opinions on what would be a better airline environment to apply for....for lack of a better term, the lesser evil?
There is more than enough written within this forum for you to make a sound judgement on joining a ME carrier. You have had the warnings, the rest my friend is up to you.
Good luck
P.S. What works for some, doesn't work for others. With that in mind, only you can make the decision to come here or not. Most of my friends are leaving if that helps...
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Glofish 
I'm a naturally optimistic, cheerful, 'glass half full' type person. I came here with a 5 year plan, which rapidly became a 3 year plan - and is now just an escape plan.
This place can grind you down very quickly indeed.
I'm a naturally optimistic, cheerful, 'glass half full' type person. I came here with a 5 year plan, which rapidly became a 3 year plan - and is now just an escape plan.
This place can grind you down very quickly indeed.
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what-to-do,et al
Thanks for the replies, as I said previously, I apologize for the repetition of threads.
I hear all the opinions and take everything on board, I'm in the very unfortunate position that "home" is no longer an option, and have no intention of ever returning to the "motherland" once arriving in DXB, where to after DXB for me is anyone's guess...... I was just trying to get some honest feedback on FZ vs EK, as a long term choice, not as a steppingstone to return "home with experience"
Thanks to all on the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the replies, as I said previously, I apologize for the repetition of threads.
I hear all the opinions and take everything on board, I'm in the very unfortunate position that "home" is no longer an option, and have no intention of ever returning to the "motherland" once arriving in DXB, where to after DXB for me is anyone's guess...... I was just trying to get some honest feedback on FZ vs EK, as a long term choice, not as a steppingstone to return "home with experience"
Thanks to all on the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.
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Hello Fuzuma,
Im also researching various topics and thinking in same line like you (which would be a better choice between the two ,EK or Flydubai? ). My understanding is that both are good in terms of salary (almost equal) and both are bad in terms of roster (80 plus flying hours and lots of night flying).
But since upgrade in Flydubai is faster than in EK (2 years to upgrade compared to 6-7 years in EK) I assume that someone who plans to spend lets say 5-10 years in Dubai would make a lot more money if he was staying in Flydubai providing that he gets an upgrade in 2 or 3 years after his start date. I guess most people would agree on this ??
Im also researching various topics and thinking in same line like you (which would be a better choice between the two ,EK or Flydubai? ). My understanding is that both are good in terms of salary (almost equal) and both are bad in terms of roster (80 plus flying hours and lots of night flying).
But since upgrade in Flydubai is faster than in EK (2 years to upgrade compared to 6-7 years in EK) I assume that someone who plans to spend lets say 5-10 years in Dubai would make a lot more money if he was staying in Flydubai providing that he gets an upgrade in 2 or 3 years after his start date. I guess most people would agree on this ??
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Go to the flydubai thread, there are thousands of posts that should answer your questions. No need to start a new thread and don't rely on other people to make your decision for you.
Command upgrade at FZ is NOT handed out by virtue of time spent in FZ. There are many guys and girls here who have not been selected for upgrade and have had their application put on hold for another 12 months..... having already been here two years. Even then, it is not certain that they will get their upgrade then.
Please understand this before uprooting yourself and your family to the desert, especially if everything you have planned is based on a definite upgrade after two years.