How big do you think the exodus from EK will be....
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How big do you think the exodus from EK will be....
Latest rumour:
777 CMD courses for the rest of the year cancelled for FOs who had already passed their interviews.
The reason?
Short FOs and so DECs are about to be recruited onto the fleet.
I reckon 2 FOs for every 1 DEC they get.
Keep discovering.
777 CMD courses for the rest of the year cancelled for FOs who had already passed their interviews.
The reason?
Short FOs and so DECs are about to be recruited onto the fleet.
I reckon 2 FOs for every 1 DEC they get.
Keep discovering.
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Remain calm...
That was Thursday's plan.
When they realise that there are no DEC's interested, the plan will change again.
Probably start recruiting DEC's from Turboprop background...
That was Thursday's plan.
When they realise that there are no DEC's interested, the plan will change again.
Probably start recruiting DEC's from Turboprop background...
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Allegedly, and this a rumour network after all, DSVP FO is at a loss as to why so many are leaving!
This, if true, stuns me as he is a bright and grounded bloke IMHO. Maybe we are really all imagining how far our QoL has gone down the plumbing.
I'm not really totally pooped all the time it's really a feeling of euphoria from being so well loved and treated by my bosses.
Time for another "happy pill" .........................................
For those of an age, I have an Air Europe feeling about the current situation.
For those of younger years, it is not a good feeling or outcome.................
This, if true, stuns me as he is a bright and grounded bloke IMHO. Maybe we are really all imagining how far our QoL has gone down the plumbing.
I'm not really totally pooped all the time it's really a feeling of euphoria from being so well loved and treated by my bosses.
Time for another "happy pill" .........................................
For those of an age, I have an Air Europe feeling about the current situation.
For those of younger years, it is not a good feeling or outcome.................
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Habibis, they will not get many DEC's for the 777, look at the recruitment disaster of the A330 DECs. Not one made it thru selection, of the few that applied. There maybe a few more, as the 777 fleet is viewed as marginally more appealing, given less night flights to the Sub continent for now.
I have been here a fair while, and of course as a pilot I am entitled to bitch and moan and praise when right (the latter being rare these days). The recipe has all of a sudden changed, colleagues are not just talking about leaving, they are actually leaving in droves. I myself have never been to a roadshow for other airlines, here in DXB or elsewhere. i am going to both the Korean and Jet2. I am now looking actively for opportunities, not what I thought I would be doing.
EK Address these issues and you will have no issues crewing the aircraft.
1.Let the rostering system do its job, let us bid for what we want, leave the current or new system alone. Keep the rotating bid system as is. Stop putting in ludicrous restrictions, and making bidding difficult.
2. Reduce the workload, 95+hrs a month is unsustainable for most of us. Back of the curve night duties, are not good for our longevity.
3. Honour our contract and give us our leave, 4 or 5 day blocks do not count.
4.Pay increase- Doesn't have to be huge, but the annual increment does not count.
5. Let us have a guaranteed block of days off a month. 7 days would work!
Add your wishes below folks.
Many are leaving as the workload is unsustainable. We are constantly tired, and that affects our health and personal lives. Those that are leaving are mainly leaving because of quality of life issues. Thats why I am looking at other jobs.
SyB
I have been here a fair while, and of course as a pilot I am entitled to bitch and moan and praise when right (the latter being rare these days). The recipe has all of a sudden changed, colleagues are not just talking about leaving, they are actually leaving in droves. I myself have never been to a roadshow for other airlines, here in DXB or elsewhere. i am going to both the Korean and Jet2. I am now looking actively for opportunities, not what I thought I would be doing.
EK Address these issues and you will have no issues crewing the aircraft.
1.Let the rostering system do its job, let us bid for what we want, leave the current or new system alone. Keep the rotating bid system as is. Stop putting in ludicrous restrictions, and making bidding difficult.
2. Reduce the workload, 95+hrs a month is unsustainable for most of us. Back of the curve night duties, are not good for our longevity.
3. Honour our contract and give us our leave, 4 or 5 day blocks do not count.
4.Pay increase- Doesn't have to be huge, but the annual increment does not count.
5. Let us have a guaranteed block of days off a month. 7 days would work!
Add your wishes below folks.
Many are leaving as the workload is unsustainable. We are constantly tired, and that affects our health and personal lives. Those that are leaving are mainly leaving because of quality of life issues. Thats why I am looking at other jobs.
SyB
short flights long nights
Alwayzinit, it's funny that you bring up Air Europe. I have read a couple of books about that compsny and its history, and you are right, it does have an Air Europe feel to it.
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Oh dear
Was in ground school this year and guess what, every Pilot I spoke to was on a short term plan, tired of fatigue angry wife's. No quality of life...long haul operator that puts night turns in between trips...sustainable?
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Just curious but Boeing and EK have a working relationship. Boeing not unlike other pilot contract companies, supplies pilots for various assignments. What's to stop Boeing from supplying EK with short term contract pilots?
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Alwayzinit,... I too remember the demise of AE only too well (on 8th March 1991), wherein I lived it, first hand... and, fwiw, I'm still in regular contact with GJB, and hoping to drop by and see him in the next week or so. 
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Disconnect
Alwayzinit, the current disconnect of EK management from their employees and reality is very unfortunate but was easy to predict. Here is a sequence of events:
- Install authoritative regime without the burdens of check and balance
- Achieve quick victories that would have been impossible in a slow, balanced environment
- Become drunken on your own success and start to believe in your own superiority
- Crush any critical voices that spoil the party. Enjoy your absolute power. In airman language: turn off the warning systems because they create unpleasant noise
- Use any crisis to cement your power by eradicating scapegoats. A welcome way to get rid of the last independent thinkers. By now information is definitely only flowing top-down.
- Reality has become distorted because it doesn't reach you any more. The layers below tweak any hard truths - or they wouldn't be there any more. You are now cruising based on pure luck. You are eating into your gains from the past, in this case the excellent pilot corps you had attracted earlier.
- Because you have become unable to face and fix small unpleasant truths in the past you are ill prepared to accept and deal with any real big problem. But that is what's heading your way. Self-induced and/or from external factors.
In short, it is a recipe for disaster followed by the Romans, the Germans in their 1000 year empire (12 years in the history books) and by various Communist regimes. It is ranked as a leading cause for corporate bankruptcy.
Chances are that this is not going to end well. I am sure that they will squeeze the remaining crew even harder before the inevitable end game. By now a change of direction would be a major effort for a competent management team. But you know who leads you and that personal pride will prohibit any loss of face.
I left when I had the opportunity but I have not forgotten your suffering. Good luck for what is about to come.
- Install authoritative regime without the burdens of check and balance
- Achieve quick victories that would have been impossible in a slow, balanced environment
- Become drunken on your own success and start to believe in your own superiority
- Crush any critical voices that spoil the party. Enjoy your absolute power. In airman language: turn off the warning systems because they create unpleasant noise
- Use any crisis to cement your power by eradicating scapegoats. A welcome way to get rid of the last independent thinkers. By now information is definitely only flowing top-down.
- Reality has become distorted because it doesn't reach you any more. The layers below tweak any hard truths - or they wouldn't be there any more. You are now cruising based on pure luck. You are eating into your gains from the past, in this case the excellent pilot corps you had attracted earlier.
- Because you have become unable to face and fix small unpleasant truths in the past you are ill prepared to accept and deal with any real big problem. But that is what's heading your way. Self-induced and/or from external factors.
In short, it is a recipe for disaster followed by the Romans, the Germans in their 1000 year empire (12 years in the history books) and by various Communist regimes. It is ranked as a leading cause for corporate bankruptcy.
Chances are that this is not going to end well. I am sure that they will squeeze the remaining crew even harder before the inevitable end game. By now a change of direction would be a major effort for a competent management team. But you know who leads you and that personal pride will prohibit any loss of face.
I left when I had the opportunity but I have not forgotten your suffering. Good luck for what is about to come.
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I don't think Emirates or Dubai was ever a great Empire. Far from it.
If tomorrow is going to be worse than today and the day after tomorrow worse than tomorrow why does anyone stay at Emirates? We are somewhat intelligent people and most of us can see what is happening here; we as Emirates employees have to pay for Dubai excess'. This creates an environment where everything is taken away and nothing given. The Emperors have gotton so drunk on power that they don't even give us the items that don't cost anything.
This is so sad. It is to the point even if they give us an industry leading contract very few pilots will come. It is the attitude and treatment that are so bad (in addition to the pay) at Emirates.
Rumor is every fleet is short of pilots in September and Ad-Opt can't complete its task. I wonder how late the rosters will be?
There are lots of great airline jobs out there nowadays. Get out before tomorrow.
If tomorrow is going to be worse than today and the day after tomorrow worse than tomorrow why does anyone stay at Emirates? We are somewhat intelligent people and most of us can see what is happening here; we as Emirates employees have to pay for Dubai excess'. This creates an environment where everything is taken away and nothing given. The Emperors have gotton so drunk on power that they don't even give us the items that don't cost anything.
This is so sad. It is to the point even if they give us an industry leading contract very few pilots will come. It is the attitude and treatment that are so bad (in addition to the pay) at Emirates.
Rumor is every fleet is short of pilots in September and Ad-Opt can't complete its task. I wonder how late the rosters will be?
There are lots of great airline jobs out there nowadays. Get out before tomorrow.
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Lets be honest though; threads like this start on a weekly basis and so far there has been no significant rumour of flight cancellations due to Pilots shortage. As previous threads seem to indicate the attrition rate at EK is around 3%, this is entirely normal and anything less than around 10% will not change anything. The guys who are truly not happy need to leave in order to make things better for everybody else.
I can't see much success with any kind of type rated DEC programme because anybody with a 777 on his/her license is already in a company where they will have a contract similar or better than EK and seniority.
I can't see much success with any kind of type rated DEC programme because anybody with a 777 on his/her license is already in a company where they will have a contract similar or better than EK and seniority.
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What a stupid comment Polax. For you to be happy the unhappy pilots have to leave? You are an idiot aren't you?
If everyone that was unhappy left EK the airline would be grounded. Beside Harry who else do you know that is really happy? The SAs don't count. Or a more important question is with all that has happened who is still happy at EK.
What will be the final straw that breaks the rest of the pilots backs? We all know it is going to get worse so what will it be? VAT, 120 flt hrs, no leave.
If everyone that was unhappy left EK the airline would be grounded. Beside Harry who else do you know that is really happy? The SAs don't count. Or a more important question is with all that has happened who is still happy at EK.
What will be the final straw that breaks the rest of the pilots backs? We all know it is going to get worse so what will it be? VAT, 120 flt hrs, no leave.
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Polax…
Agree with LHR on your comments….
How on earth would anyone leaving EK help the problems. That is not the culture we live in here.
So you're saying if more guys leave, it'll be better for you? You're saying Fewer pilots would mean LESS flying hours per month, FEWER crazy rotations of day night/night day ops followed preceded by a 10 hour time zone ULR… and you say that would make things better for you if lots of pilots left??? You think you'd get your 42 days vacation if more pilots left??? You think the 94 hours plus each month would be LESS if lots of pilots left? I honestly don't follow your logic.
It's akin to you simply sticking your head in the proverbial sand hoping the the problems disappear….
I simply fail to see the logic in your statement. But in good EK CRM tradition, I'm willing to listen to an explanation.
Specifically though… I'd like to ask you to answer this: Why are fewer and few pilots getting only 30 days vacation at 4 and 5 day clips vs the "entitled" 42 each year? Also, don't know about your roster, but mine is WELL over 92 hours anymore these days. Why would that be if as you imply, there is no pilot shortage? And the 3% you mention….. You do realize that anyone who leaves over age 50 is NOT counted in that 3%, right? They are considered to have RETIRED and so therefore HR can come to wash-up and tell us everything is normal. Laughable….
Kap
Agree with LHR on your comments….
How on earth would anyone leaving EK help the problems. That is not the culture we live in here.
So you're saying if more guys leave, it'll be better for you? You're saying Fewer pilots would mean LESS flying hours per month, FEWER crazy rotations of day night/night day ops followed preceded by a 10 hour time zone ULR… and you say that would make things better for you if lots of pilots left??? You think you'd get your 42 days vacation if more pilots left??? You think the 94 hours plus each month would be LESS if lots of pilots left? I honestly don't follow your logic.
It's akin to you simply sticking your head in the proverbial sand hoping the the problems disappear….
I simply fail to see the logic in your statement. But in good EK CRM tradition, I'm willing to listen to an explanation.
Specifically though… I'd like to ask you to answer this: Why are fewer and few pilots getting only 30 days vacation at 4 and 5 day clips vs the "entitled" 42 each year? Also, don't know about your roster, but mine is WELL over 92 hours anymore these days. Why would that be if as you imply, there is no pilot shortage? And the 3% you mention….. You do realize that anyone who leaves over age 50 is NOT counted in that 3%, right? They are considered to have RETIRED and so therefore HR can come to wash-up and tell us everything is normal. Laughable….
Kap
Last edited by Kapitanleutnant; 16th Aug 2015 at 00:09.
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They make it difficult to like them
They make it difficult to like them!!
A purser said this to me one day and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
The situation today within the company is so diametrically opposed to when I
joined.
I can hardly believe how this has come about. It saddens and puzzles me at
the same time.
From flying with colleagues who praised their tenure within the company, to
currently flying with colleagues who despise and profess their hatred for it.
I literally do not know anyone who is not actively looking for other options or
who would go out of their way to help the company.
If this is the company style that management want, it is going to be a rude
awakening when their lack of respect for human desires and needs leads to
the inevitable crisis.
I can only hope that I have moved on before then.
A purser said this to me one day and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
The situation today within the company is so diametrically opposed to when I
joined.
I can hardly believe how this has come about. It saddens and puzzles me at
the same time.
From flying with colleagues who praised their tenure within the company, to
currently flying with colleagues who despise and profess their hatred for it.
I literally do not know anyone who is not actively looking for other options or
who would go out of their way to help the company.
If this is the company style that management want, it is going to be a rude
awakening when their lack of respect for human desires and needs leads to
the inevitable crisis.
I can only hope that I have moved on before then.
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As much as I agree with the previous poster...
or who would go out of their way to help the company.
We are our own worst enemies!
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In the past there has been talk of an exodus but this time people are acting on their desire to leave. Unless there is a radical change of attitude from AS replacement the company will end up in a terminal decline.
I feel that flight safety is now being compromised the recipe for disaster is there.....overworked, tired de motivated pilots in my near 13 years here I have never known it like this.
I am not going to work under these conditions 95 hours plus every month does not interest me and for long term health it's a non starter.
I feel that flight safety is now being compromised the recipe for disaster is there.....overworked, tired de motivated pilots in my near 13 years here I have never known it like this.
I am not going to work under these conditions 95 hours plus every month does not interest me and for long term health it's a non starter.
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Some numbers I heard from a reliable source in the last few days.
36 skippers resigned in the last month and about 400 f/o's short on the 777.
Any substance to these numbers....can anyone verify it?
36 skippers resigned in the last month and about 400 f/o's short on the 777.
Any substance to these numbers....can anyone verify it?