Lowered requirements Emirates
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Gore tex, do you put in feedback after recurrent or read the news letter. Big strides have be make to change things from checking to training and feed back refects that.
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It's a logical evolution.
You need to lower the newbee's requirements, because you need to keep the same big experience gradient between the actual TRI/E's and the trainees.
I acknowledge that there was a strive to change from numb checking to training, but the bad influence from fleet and upper management successfully eroded what little progress had been achieved.
Just read the ASR summary and extrapolate it with what will be trained shortly!
You need to lower the newbee's requirements, because you need to keep the same big experience gradient between the actual TRI/E's and the trainees.
I acknowledge that there was a strive to change from numb checking to training, but the bad influence from fleet and upper management successfully eroded what little progress had been achieved.
Just read the ASR summary and extrapolate it with what will be trained shortly!
Jebus, speaking to a couple of fellow ex Lyneham inmates, nearly all of them would opt for VS or BA through the various ex service pilot schemes on offer. Jetpoo are also offering openings for TP guys who have done their EASA conversion.
This is all being targeted at the likes of the 20 something year old TP pilots in First world countries who feel stuck, and want a jet job.
Bandaid at best given that there are relatively few large TP's in service.
This is all being targeted at the likes of the 20 something year old TP pilots in First world countries who feel stuck, and want a jet job.
Bandaid at best given that there are relatively few large TP's in service.
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MM agree however it might come as a surprise for you to know this but not all large military TP crews are British. Apparently other nations have acquired the hardware and skills....even the Americans and dare I say it but those annoying colonial types as well.
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We should all see this as a clear indication that EK management have zero interest in changing terms and conditions in a positive direction, the only reason they can't attract suitable jet time candidates is because of the package, turboprop guys are stuck in a rut as low cost carriers will not take them and they will leap from high places at a chance like this, and the package will look to them like cream with lots of strawberries on top. And that is how it will stay.
And what for next year, 26 new 380's arriving, what then, just who is going to operate these aircraft, is there enough 330/340 captains to fill these ranks, leaving another hole to fill, more low time guys filling position that they just don't have the experience to handle.
What is needed is a pay increase upwards of 20/30% this and only this wil start to change the tide, anything else offered at the moment is bull
, this and only this will make quality candidates look again in the direction on EK, then as the numbers increase the other terms will start to be honoured.
How on earth the company expects large numbers of turbo prop guys to get through sim training let alone the interview process when a large number of high jet time guys have failed in the past is beyond me, no doubt our standards in the sim will be lowered along with the experience requirements.
I would not fancy being a trainer with all this going on, good luck guys you are going to need it, remember that 2 is now a 3, or else!!!!
And what for next year, 26 new 380's arriving, what then, just who is going to operate these aircraft, is there enough 330/340 captains to fill these ranks, leaving another hole to fill, more low time guys filling position that they just don't have the experience to handle.
What is needed is a pay increase upwards of 20/30% this and only this wil start to change the tide, anything else offered at the moment is bull
, this and only this will make quality candidates look again in the direction on EK, then as the numbers increase the other terms will start to be honoured. How on earth the company expects large numbers of turbo prop guys to get through sim training let alone the interview process when a large number of high jet time guys have failed in the past is beyond me, no doubt our standards in the sim will be lowered along with the experience requirements.
I would not fancy being a trainer with all this going on, good luck guys you are going to need it, remember that 2 is now a 3, or else!!!!
Last edited by bia botal; 28th Jul 2015 at 13:12.
Join Date: Sep 2014
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This is a sad day
They have a fixed package and they want to run an airline around it
Seats will be filled .. No doubt
I wanted to throw in a few words about the subject but what's the point ?
This is clearly a slap in the face to the current workforce
They have a fixed package and they want to run an airline around it
Seats will be filled .. No doubt
I wanted to throw in a few words about the subject but what's the point ?
This is clearly a slap in the face to the current workforce
short flights long nights
They are trying to fill seats, no matter what. The 9th floor culture won't allow to accept something is wrong. That would involve loss of face, and taking responsibility, something the culture does not allow.
A few floors down, they can not admit there is a problem, because they will lose their enormous bonuses. They just sit and watch, and count the money.
The wheels have well and truely fallen off.
A few floors down, they can not admit there is a problem, because they will lose their enormous bonuses. They just sit and watch, and count the money.
The wheels have well and truely fallen off.
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Emirates wont be the first or last airline to reduce requirements. Just look at their upcoming orders! I think mgmt has decided they'd better train their own well for the long run, than have a hiring spree of pilots in the global market in haste later on.
From my knowledge, their National cadet program enrollment every year has been increasing but we must also note that more and and more pilots are considering other expanding airlines like Qatar and Etihad.
From my knowledge, their National cadet program enrollment every year has been increasing but we must also note that more and and more pilots are considering other expanding airlines like Qatar and Etihad.
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With all due respect bia botal, and I don't disagree that you guys deserve a pay rise and I wish you all the very best with getting one ...
... but if you seriously believe that a good young turboprop captain, with a few years command time in a Dash-8 or ATR-72, who's been trained by a top shelf first world operator like Qantaslink or Wideroe or Flybe or Air New Zealand, is somehow not a "quality candidate", or is going to require standards to be lowered in order to occupy the right seat of an EK jet, then you sir are completely full of .
I'd argue that hiring those kind of guys, will probably turn out to be a very good thing for the overall airline operating standard, as long they pick them correctly. It's a smart and long overdue move by the airline.
... but if you seriously believe that a good young turboprop captain, with a few years command time in a Dash-8 or ATR-72, who's been trained by a top shelf first world operator like Qantaslink or Wideroe or Flybe or Air New Zealand, is somehow not a "quality candidate", or is going to require standards to be lowered in order to occupy the right seat of an EK jet, then you sir are completely full of
.I'd argue that hiring those kind of guys, will probably turn out to be a very good thing for the overall airline operating standard, as long they pick them correctly. It's a smart and long overdue move by the airline.
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How on earth the company expects large numbers of turbo prop guys to get through sim training let alone the interview process when a large number of high jet time guys have failed in the past is beyond me, no doubt our standards in the sim will be lowered along with the experience requirements.
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Props are not the issue
There appears to be some confusion about what the guys are concerned about here. Flying the airplane is a very very small part of the job. At EK it's about 1% of the time. So it is not that they hate TP guys nor think them inferior pilots. The same concern would be levied against a Red Bull air racer. The simple fact is most props are limited to a very tiny region of the globe, and hence so is your TP experience. Yes, there are exceptions. I am saying most. Now, you are a captain on your 7th day in a row, flying a trip that has been reduced from three pilots to two pilots. (Due to lack of crew.) You have a TP guy with 2000 hours sitting next to you over deepest darkest Africa, in an airplane that may be 100 times heavier, fly 3 times faster and take 10 times the runway to stop then what he just stepped out of, and facing weather he has never seen. As a TP he will have very little to offer except SOP regurgitation, which will get you through 95% of it. But when it counts, really counts, and things are going pear shaped, there are safety issues that need to be addressed. The TP pilot may very well may end up adding stress to the problem. The concerns have very little to do with flying the airplane it has to do with experience. This is not an offense, many of us started there, myself included. However, I can tell you there is a legitimate concern. Now, if EK wants to do 50 sectors with the TP guys and let them fill their boots, then no worries. Or hey, better the T&C and keep the guys you have. All this IMHO.....
Years ago a CRJ 70 was not good enough but a CRJ 90 was. Same plane. The things EK does rarely make sense.
Years ago a CRJ 70 was not good enough but a CRJ 90 was. Same plane. The things EK does rarely make sense.
120,
How is that any different to that same Captain sitting next to a easy/ryan/wiz/enter your own P2F FO now?
The turbo prop fella might know how to actually fly. The turbo prop fella is use to flying in the weather.
Other airlines have hired Turbo prop onto jets for years. I cant see the issue. Interesting to see that some that refer to this as being a lowering of requirements were themselves were only hired after the requirements were lowered last time. But that is somehow different I guess. Just as those that joined post 2004 can whine about flying 90hrs per month, having leave held back, and DECs. These things didn't count when they were happening to other people here, when/before you joined, but is important now as it happens to you.
I just hope I don't have to sit next to a whining ex turbo prop FO complaining that his 2 year promised command isn't happening, as I do with those fine, hair gelled, 4000hr sky gods now.
Is it rude to say we told you so?
How is that any different to that same Captain sitting next to a easy/ryan/wiz/enter your own P2F FO now?
The turbo prop fella might know how to actually fly. The turbo prop fella is use to flying in the weather.
Other airlines have hired Turbo prop onto jets for years. I cant see the issue. Interesting to see that some that refer to this as being a lowering of requirements were themselves were only hired after the requirements were lowered last time. But that is somehow different I guess. Just as those that joined post 2004 can whine about flying 90hrs per month, having leave held back, and DECs. These things didn't count when they were happening to other people here, when/before you joined, but is important now as it happens to you.
I just hope I don't have to sit next to a whining ex turbo prop FO complaining that his 2 year promised command isn't happening, as I do with those fine, hair gelled, 4000hr sky gods now.
Is it rude to say we told you so?
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I have to agree with Don Corleone, flying an Airliner is not rocket science, I get your point africa flying,massive storms, crossing the pond, etc, again not rocket science maybe a good challenge and a steep learning curve, but not hard to learn. Cheers.
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Haha you guys are hilarious. Do you know we have 50+ guys out on sick leave for heart stroke?! Flying wide body aircraft through 20+ time zones is nothing like flying a TP for 8 hours in 2 time zones! Come on over and fly 0100 to 0900 and see how long it takes to grow grey hair with 96 hours a month and 6-8 days off a month, we are dying over here!!@!@!
There are enough pilots to fill into all of our (everyone who has been whining) boots so let's not go down that route. Don't like something, stop, find something that suits you and move on.