Lowered requirements Emirates
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: another place
Posts: 732
So the pilots determining recruitment policy in Emirates is the way forward? You guys are funny.
Reality, you need bums on seats. I know enough guys working there who tell me so they can have easier rosters and get leave.
It's not just about enticement for me, you want narrow and wide body jet guys? As for me, I have no interest in BSJs, just cash for retirement. And I'm better off where I am at the moment. But the world of work is a fluid situation.
Oh and the ppruners as always don't always prove to be a representative scientific sample group. Some say Harry the cod has Stockholm syndrome. The probable reality is, it seems to work for him and that's the real trick in this industry. Sorry to drag you into the topic skycod.
Reality, you need bums on seats. I know enough guys working there who tell me so they can have easier rosters and get leave.
It's not just about enticement for me, you want narrow and wide body jet guys? As for me, I have no interest in BSJs, just cash for retirement. And I'm better off where I am at the moment. But the world of work is a fluid situation.
Oh and the ppruners as always don't always prove to be a representative scientific sample group. Some say Harry the cod has Stockholm syndrome. The probable reality is, it seems to work for him and that's the real trick in this industry. Sorry to drag you into the topic skycod.
Last edited by Deep and fast; 22nd Sep 2015 at 14:17.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 50
Posts: 329
It doesn't matter how many suckers, er New Hires come to Emirates the company will only hire enough pilots to allow for us to fly 92 hrs a month with 30 days leave a year.
The reason we are so short now is because of so many pilots that have left the company. Probably approaching 150 pilots this year so the company will only try to hire 200 or so pilots. 150 to make up for the attrition and 50 or so to fill the expansion.
It is very telling that the company can't even hire 200 pilots this year. Hence the lower requir,nets and standards. If Emirates paid us what other airlines make the company probably wouldn't have any problem filling the ranks.
Does anyone think that is gong to happen here? Me neither.
The reason we are so short now is because of so many pilots that have left the company. Probably approaching 150 pilots this year so the company will only try to hire 200 or so pilots. 150 to make up for the attrition and 50 or so to fill the expansion.
It is very telling that the company can't even hire 200 pilots this year. Hence the lower requir,nets and standards. If Emirates paid us what other airlines make the company probably wouldn't have any problem filling the ranks.
Does anyone think that is gong to happen here? Me neither.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NAT
Age: 36
Posts: 68
It seems that they are throwing a wider fish net out there.
A380 NTR FO:
ICAO ATPL
ELP 4
AviationJobs.Me Flight Crew: A380 Non Type Rated First Officers Emirates UAE
Link on above website takes you directly to the emirates careers site.
Reminds me of an Eagle's song...
A380 NTR FO:
ICAO ATPL
ELP 4
AviationJobs.Me Flight Crew: A380 Non Type Rated First Officers Emirates UAE
Link on above website takes you directly to the emirates careers site.
Reminds me of an Eagle's song...
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 70
Deep and fast.
While what you say is undoubtedly accurate, I don't think you'll have much luck convincing the incumbent egos in EK of the reality of the situation. To point out that company is quite capable of finding suitable candidates by lowering some of the arbitrary thresholds somehow diminishes their fragile self-esteem and the status of their position.
Unfortunately, a lot of the established captains in EK are some way removed from having their feet on the ground probably as a result of living the Dubai dream and having successfully navigated their way through a pedantic regime into the LHS. Humility is often not the product of those 2 factors. Add in the fact that many are trapped by the cash, fed up with the roster and in denial about their health and it's no surprise that they don't like being told that they are not universally revered after all.
While what you say is undoubtedly accurate, I don't think you'll have much luck convincing the incumbent egos in EK of the reality of the situation. To point out that company is quite capable of finding suitable candidates by lowering some of the arbitrary thresholds somehow diminishes their fragile self-esteem and the status of their position.
Unfortunately, a lot of the established captains in EK are some way removed from having their feet on the ground probably as a result of living the Dubai dream and having successfully navigated their way through a pedantic regime into the LHS. Humility is often not the product of those 2 factors. Add in the fact that many are trapped by the cash, fed up with the roster and in denial about their health and it's no surprise that they don't like being told that they are not universally revered after all.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: another place
Posts: 732
Feel free to pick up on each and everyone of my statements re Emirates and put forwards an intelligent and reasoned arguement to back up your point of view because at the moment I only hear gum knashing as another poster said.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53° 32′ 9.19″ N, 9° 50′ 13.29″ E
Posts: 596
Air Berlin apparently looking to get rid of "up to 200" flight deck positions. More cannon fodder for the carriers in the Middle East.
Last edited by ExDubai; 22nd Sep 2015 at 22:08.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,040
Deep and Fast
Pilots who are part of the recruitment team do not determine the policy. That's done by HR. What they do determine, however, is the quality and standard of the candidate who makes it through to interview. It's a combined effort from actual line guys, long term sick pilots who've been assessed for their suitability for recruitment and TRE's who play an integral part in the simulator assessment. Experience levels for applicants has indeed been reduced but the standards, we are led to believe, will remain the same.
From my own involvement with the recruitment team, I have no reason to believe that goal is not being achieved, despite the increasing pressure from above. The pilots and examiners know only too well that the consequences of not retaining those minimum standards would impact on all throughout the training process and also on the line. It would be a false economy if an increasing number of people were failing after joining.
Personally, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of the points you make, just the way you make them.
Harry
Pilots who are part of the recruitment team do not determine the policy. That's done by HR. What they do determine, however, is the quality and standard of the candidate who makes it through to interview. It's a combined effort from actual line guys, long term sick pilots who've been assessed for their suitability for recruitment and TRE's who play an integral part in the simulator assessment. Experience levels for applicants has indeed been reduced but the standards, we are led to believe, will remain the same.
From my own involvement with the recruitment team, I have no reason to believe that goal is not being achieved, despite the increasing pressure from above. The pilots and examiners know only too well that the consequences of not retaining those minimum standards would impact on all throughout the training process and also on the line. It would be a false economy if an increasing number of people were failing after joining.
Personally, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of the points you make, just the way you make them.
Harry
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: another place
Posts: 732
Great and constructive response HTC
What gets me is the constant denigration of pilots that don't meet the historic profile of Emirates recruited pilots. There really are some very good guys out there.
Recruiting minimums have always been fluid but some find it difficult to accept. I'm glad to hear that standards are being upheld.
Americans and Canadians have a different aviation industry and a greater GA community and have some guys who think you should be 10000 hours and 50 years old before a command, totally different in Europe. It's all about perspective.
Not dissing North Americans before someone takes offence!
What gets me is the constant denigration of pilots that don't meet the historic profile of Emirates recruited pilots. There really are some very good guys out there.
Recruiting minimums have always been fluid but some find it difficult to accept. I'm glad to hear that standards are being upheld.
Americans and Canadians have a different aviation industry and a greater GA community and have some guys who think you should be 10000 hours and 50 years old before a command, totally different in Europe. It's all about perspective.
Not dissing North Americans before someone takes offence!
Last edited by Deep and fast; 23rd Sep 2015 at 12:19.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: >FL310
Posts: 429
So tell us Harry. How is it now that during the sim evaluation the standard is, is this candidate trainable not whether or not he performed the manuveur correctly? If that is not lowering standards, I don't know what is. A major change in the evaluation of candidates. 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53° 32′ 9.19″ N, 9° 50′ 13.29″ E
Posts: 596
... is this candidate trainable...
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,040
TU
Nothing really changed from simulator assessments 15 years ago. Departure, handling, circuit or two and engine failure. Check that the candidate has the basic flying skills and uses CRM management tools. Not looking for a polished performance, just one that improves throughout the 30-40 minute session. Many have failed the sim which is why it's done early on in the interview process. There is a minimum criteria for passing......and it's not just if they have a heart beat and don't crash!
Some recent feedback from our own 'handling' sims proves that you don't need to be Chuck Yeager to work here!
Harry
Nothing really changed from simulator assessments 15 years ago. Departure, handling, circuit or two and engine failure. Check that the candidate has the basic flying skills and uses CRM management tools. Not looking for a polished performance, just one that improves throughout the 30-40 minute session. Many have failed the sim which is why it's done early on in the interview process. There is a minimum criteria for passing......and it's not just if they have a heart beat and don't crash!
Some recent feedback from our own 'handling' sims proves that you don't need to be Chuck Yeager to work here!
Harry
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Inmate of District 11
Posts: 442
Personally, I would like to think that any "professional" pilot would have the natural or learnt capability to fly a basic sim detail in any commercial cockpit. I know that people do not understand the aircraft that they are completing the sim ride/test/assessment on BUT it is the eye - scan rate - brain processing procedure - hand to control input - desired outcome that matters. No matter what aircraft one has flown as a "professional" pilot, manipulating any aircrafts controls to achieve a safe and desired output should be the basic fundamentals of any pilot.
An engine failure in any twin requires the same procedure of hand eye coordination. Scan rates and VOR tracking is the same in any aircraft. Circuits would need to be briefed and understood I would agree as jets fly wider patterns than props, but being flexible and adapting to changes is part of a pilots specialised abilities.
I had never flown any of the EK fleet types before I did the EK sim assessment and yet it just required concentration and adaptation of known skills to achieve success. To me, I for one am glad that recruiting standards are not lowered as it should be expected that any pilot flying a commercial aircraft today should be able to perform these manoeuvres. Emirates is not training "new pilots", it wants to train commercial pilots to fly a new type and I believe that if a pilot displays "minimum acceptable commercial piloting skills" then they have a chance to further develop those onto other aircraft types.
Good luck to those who make it through, to those who didn't sorry but in fairness it was in your hands and no one else's.
Jack
An engine failure in any twin requires the same procedure of hand eye coordination. Scan rates and VOR tracking is the same in any aircraft. Circuits would need to be briefed and understood I would agree as jets fly wider patterns than props, but being flexible and adapting to changes is part of a pilots specialised abilities.
I had never flown any of the EK fleet types before I did the EK sim assessment and yet it just required concentration and adaptation of known skills to achieve success. To me, I for one am glad that recruiting standards are not lowered as it should be expected that any pilot flying a commercial aircraft today should be able to perform these manoeuvres. Emirates is not training "new pilots", it wants to train commercial pilots to fly a new type and I believe that if a pilot displays "minimum acceptable commercial piloting skills" then they have a chance to further develop those onto other aircraft types.
Good luck to those who make it through, to those who didn't sorry but in fairness it was in your hands and no one else's.
Jack
