Lowered requirements Emirates
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Deep and fast.
While what you say is undoubtedly accurate, I don't think you'll have much luck convincing the incumbent egos in EK of the reality of the situation. To point out that company is quite capable of finding suitable candidates by lowering some of the arbitrary thresholds somehow diminishes their fragile self-esteem and the status of their position.
Unfortunately, a lot of the established captains in EK are some way removed from having their feet on the ground probably as a result of living the Dubai dream and having successfully navigated their way through a pedantic regime into the LHS. Humility is often not the product of those 2 factors. Add in the fact that many are trapped by the cash, fed up with the roster and in denial about their health and it's no surprise that they don't like being told that they are not universally revered after all.
While what you say is undoubtedly accurate, I don't think you'll have much luck convincing the incumbent egos in EK of the reality of the situation. To point out that company is quite capable of finding suitable candidates by lowering some of the arbitrary thresholds somehow diminishes their fragile self-esteem and the status of their position.
Unfortunately, a lot of the established captains in EK are some way removed from having their feet on the ground probably as a result of living the Dubai dream and having successfully navigated their way through a pedantic regime into the LHS. Humility is often not the product of those 2 factors. Add in the fact that many are trapped by the cash, fed up with the roster and in denial about their health and it's no surprise that they don't like being told that they are not universally revered after all.
I see that chip on the shoulder didn't reduce after you left Adolf. I hope you find an airline that suits eventually.
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Feel free to pick up on each and everyone of my statements re Emirates and put forwards an intelligent and reasoned arguement to back up your point of view because at the moment I only hear gum knashing as another poster said.
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Air Berlin apparently looking to get rid of "up to 200" flight deck positions. More cannon fodder for the carriers in the Middle East.
Last edited by ExDubai; 22nd Sep 2015 at 21:08.
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Deep and Fast
Pilots who are part of the recruitment team do not determine the policy. That's done by HR. What they do determine, however, is the quality and standard of the candidate who makes it through to interview. It's a combined effort from actual line guys, long term sick pilots who've been assessed for their suitability for recruitment and TRE's who play an integral part in the simulator assessment. Experience levels for applicants has indeed been reduced but the standards, we are led to believe, will remain the same.
From my own involvement with the recruitment team, I have no reason to believe that goal is not being achieved, despite the increasing pressure from above. The pilots and examiners know only too well that the consequences of not retaining those minimum standards would impact on all throughout the training process and also on the line. It would be a false economy if an increasing number of people were failing after joining.
Personally, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of the points you make, just the way you make them.
Harry
Pilots who are part of the recruitment team do not determine the policy. That's done by HR. What they do determine, however, is the quality and standard of the candidate who makes it through to interview. It's a combined effort from actual line guys, long term sick pilots who've been assessed for their suitability for recruitment and TRE's who play an integral part in the simulator assessment. Experience levels for applicants has indeed been reduced but the standards, we are led to believe, will remain the same.
From my own involvement with the recruitment team, I have no reason to believe that goal is not being achieved, despite the increasing pressure from above. The pilots and examiners know only too well that the consequences of not retaining those minimum standards would impact on all throughout the training process and also on the line. It would be a false economy if an increasing number of people were failing after joining.
Personally, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of the points you make, just the way you make them.
Harry
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Great and constructive response HTC
What gets me is the constant denigration of pilots that don't meet the historic profile of Emirates recruited pilots. There really are some very good guys out there.
Recruiting minimums have always been fluid but some find it difficult to accept. I'm glad to hear that standards are being upheld.
Americans and Canadians have a different aviation industry and a greater GA community and have some guys who think you should be 10000 hours and 50 years old before a command, totally different in Europe. It's all about perspective.
Not dissing North Americans before someone takes offence!
What gets me is the constant denigration of pilots that don't meet the historic profile of Emirates recruited pilots. There really are some very good guys out there.
Recruiting minimums have always been fluid but some find it difficult to accept. I'm glad to hear that standards are being upheld.
Americans and Canadians have a different aviation industry and a greater GA community and have some guys who think you should be 10000 hours and 50 years old before a command, totally different in Europe. It's all about perspective.
Not dissing North Americans before someone takes offence!
Last edited by Deep and fast; 23rd Sep 2015 at 11:19.
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So tell us Harry. How is it now that during the sim evaluation the standard is, is this candidate trainable not whether or not he performed the manuveur correctly? If that is not lowering standards, I don't know what is. A major change in the evaluation of candidates. 
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... is this candidate trainable...
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TU
Nothing really changed from simulator assessments 15 years ago. Departure, handling, circuit or two and engine failure. Check that the candidate has the basic flying skills and uses CRM management tools. Not looking for a polished performance, just one that improves throughout the 30-40 minute session. Many have failed the sim which is why it's done early on in the interview process. There is a minimum criteria for passing......and it's not just if they have a heart beat and don't crash!
Some recent feedback from our own 'handling' sims proves that you don't need to be Chuck Yeager to work here!
Harry
Nothing really changed from simulator assessments 15 years ago. Departure, handling, circuit or two and engine failure. Check that the candidate has the basic flying skills and uses CRM management tools. Not looking for a polished performance, just one that improves throughout the 30-40 minute session. Many have failed the sim which is why it's done early on in the interview process. There is a minimum criteria for passing......and it's not just if they have a heart beat and don't crash!
Some recent feedback from our own 'handling' sims proves that you don't need to be Chuck Yeager to work here!
Harry
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No argument there Harry. But you are probably aware that the assessment has changed officially. Maybe, in some ways more realistic, but the requirements in assessing are being changed and being "lowered".
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Personally, I would like to think that any "professional" pilot would have the natural or learnt capability to fly a basic sim detail in any commercial cockpit. I know that people do not understand the aircraft that they are completing the sim ride/test/assessment on BUT it is the eye - scan rate - brain processing procedure - hand to control input - desired outcome that matters. No matter what aircraft one has flown as a "professional" pilot, manipulating any aircrafts controls to achieve a safe and desired output should be the basic fundamentals of any pilot.
An engine failure in any twin requires the same procedure of hand eye coordination. Scan rates and VOR tracking is the same in any aircraft. Circuits would need to be briefed and understood I would agree as jets fly wider patterns than props, but being flexible and adapting to changes is part of a pilots specialised abilities.
I had never flown any of the EK fleet types before I did the EK sim assessment and yet it just required concentration and adaptation of known skills to achieve success. To me, I for one am glad that recruiting standards are not lowered as it should be expected that any pilot flying a commercial aircraft today should be able to perform these manoeuvres. Emirates is not training "new pilots", it wants to train commercial pilots to fly a new type and I believe that if a pilot displays "minimum acceptable commercial piloting skills" then they have a chance to further develop those onto other aircraft types.
Good luck to those who make it through, to those who didn't sorry but in fairness it was in your hands and no one else's.
Jack
An engine failure in any twin requires the same procedure of hand eye coordination. Scan rates and VOR tracking is the same in any aircraft. Circuits would need to be briefed and understood I would agree as jets fly wider patterns than props, but being flexible and adapting to changes is part of a pilots specialised abilities.
I had never flown any of the EK fleet types before I did the EK sim assessment and yet it just required concentration and adaptation of known skills to achieve success. To me, I for one am glad that recruiting standards are not lowered as it should be expected that any pilot flying a commercial aircraft today should be able to perform these manoeuvres. Emirates is not training "new pilots", it wants to train commercial pilots to fly a new type and I believe that if a pilot displays "minimum acceptable commercial piloting skills" then they have a chance to further develop those onto other aircraft types.
Good luck to those who make it through, to those who didn't sorry but in fairness it was in your hands and no one else's.
Jack
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I agree
With you totally
The point I like to bring up
Of course the q400 does not fly like a f16
I am sorry for that because the post was not meant to be out at that time
What I like to say is only these guys diserve a fair chance to continue in their career and should not be turned for reasons like
Aircraft not big enough, not fast enough , not heavy enough etc.
They do their job as professional as all the big jet flyers, and yes they usually have more options in alternates around
Yes at N83 the clocks are ticking a little different, totally agree but these are things everybody with the right attitude can easily learn. That is just adopting to the environment.
And disagree to say it needs much more, it only needs a different point to start handling the issue. Which everybody can learn, but you can't learn it if you are humiliated because your career as a pilot started as TP pilot, done by pilots who simple had luck to bypass TP flying
Conclusion is that everybody started somewhere to build his experience, and a pilot is not better or worse just because he started on a different side of it
Thanks
The point I like to bring up
Of course the q400 does not fly like a f16
I am sorry for that because the post was not meant to be out at that time
What I like to say is only these guys diserve a fair chance to continue in their career and should not be turned for reasons like
Aircraft not big enough, not fast enough , not heavy enough etc.
They do their job as professional as all the big jet flyers, and yes they usually have more options in alternates around
Yes at N83 the clocks are ticking a little different, totally agree but these are things everybody with the right attitude can easily learn. That is just adopting to the environment.
And disagree to say it needs much more, it only needs a different point to start handling the issue. Which everybody can learn, but you can't learn it if you are humiliated because your career as a pilot started as TP pilot, done by pilots who simple had luck to bypass TP flying
Conclusion is that everybody started somewhere to build his experience, and a pilot is not better or worse just because he started on a different side of it
Thanks
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That's just it. EK used to be a job you finally achieved after putting in your time in puddle jumping, then regional then narrow body. EK is now no longer a place pilots seek as their career goal but more for a stepping stone to a better place. The SIM is proof of this. 25 minutes performing turns and climbs VS the 2 hour full monty at Korean. EK is no longer interested in attracting the best just attracting someone who can legally fill the seat.
CR
CR
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What I like to say is only these guys diserve a fair chance to continue in their career and should not be turned for reasons like
Aircraft not big enough, not fast enough , not heavy enough
Aircraft not big enough, not fast enough , not heavy enough
What bothers us, is what CR states:
25 minutes performing turns and climbs (new EK sim ass session) VS the 2 hour full monty at Korean
Assessing the right guys irrespective of provenience vs. having to fill seats quickly.
It sort of raises doubts about the reassurance from the training department that they do not lower standards. Two faces again:
Giving the required higher amount of training vs. having to fill the seats quickly and cheaply.
EK is no longer interested in attracting the best just attracting someone who can legally fill the seat.