Lowered requirements Emirates
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: England
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Why now?
And if I was answering that question, I would say, you wanted big shiny jet time before now and anyway once you get that far up any tree it gets harder to leave.
I used to be a training Captain back in the day on a Dash ( crash ) 8... Due to a slack period in the industry I was there a few years.. So when the opportunity arose and I found myself in front of someone asking that question, I was a bit perplexed. I was prepared to take a 50% pay cut to go forward in my career and fly jets ( wow ) and this dick was implying that I must be useless as I had so much experience! Yeah, that why I was a TRE because I was useless....
Anyway, that was then and now it's a memory... TP guys and gals are easy to train, I've done a lot of jet conversions with them. They are speed aware, can land in a cross wind, ( it really isn't that different, took me two goes to nail ) they are CRM experts as they have flown with some strange types who don't want to leave, and are two crew ready.
If anyone can get through the sim etc, then it don't matter where they come from. What we need is boys and girls that have been trained well and recurented well...end of.
I used to be a training Captain back in the day on a Dash ( crash ) 8... Due to a slack period in the industry I was there a few years.. So when the opportunity arose and I found myself in front of someone asking that question, I was a bit perplexed. I was prepared to take a 50% pay cut to go forward in my career and fly jets ( wow ) and this dick was implying that I must be useless as I had so much experience! Yeah, that why I was a TRE because I was useless....
Anyway, that was then and now it's a memory... TP guys and gals are easy to train, I've done a lot of jet conversions with them. They are speed aware, can land in a cross wind, ( it really isn't that different, took me two goes to nail ) they are CRM experts as they have flown with some strange types who don't want to leave, and are two crew ready.
If anyone can get through the sim etc, then it don't matter where they come from. What we need is boys and girls that have been trained well and recurented well...end of.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Basic I actually don't care too much where a guy comes from.TP or gliders. ...but I wouldn't suggest answering the question your way...Please come on over the weather's fine....
Join Date: Sep 2011
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The only issue for the EK guys in particular will be the fact that every flight with a new TP guy is going to be a training flight for the TPs first year or more in EK and this will mean that the EK Captain is going to have to be even more aware than normal or the 'tea and biscuits" trip is inevitable + letters + cash loss (no bonus etc or upgrade if multicrew).
That is exactly what i fear. With 95 factored hours, 2 ground schools, not more than twice two days off in row, covering 18h time difference twice a month i am simply afraid of a very much bigger chance of running into some kind of trouble that would affect my carrer and my familiy's destiny.
If i thought i was that proverbial sky god as some clowns imply, i would probably think 'bring 'em on, they'll benefit of my superiour skills, blah, blah', but i do not consider myself as that. I am an average skipper who would like to finish his carreer in peace, with what has worked up to now.
I say it again: Nothing against other pilots, they are all equal (some are more equal, but that's another story ...). Most on this page agree that different backgrounds need different screening and training and there lies the Gordic knot. I no longer believe that this happens, although don managed to soothe my concern a bit. Let's hope.
But i really do share Jack's comment above
Last edited by glofish; 9th Aug 2015 at 09:39.
short flights long nights
I think Jack and glofish are right. I think every EK captain will become a 'training' captain wether they like it or not. And if something goes wrong.......
I can only hope Don is correct.
I can only hope Don is correct.
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It's actually the TP guys I would have sympathy with in all of this. After the elation of being selected to fly a big shiny jet in a big shiny city, they will soon be introduced to the Emirates way of training and realise that they are given precisely zero credit for the attributes on which, presumably, they were selected. Then, having passed the training, they will have the pleasure of sitting next to an individual who has been doing EK long-haul just a bit too long and is paranoid about some upstart ruining his precious track record and jeopardising the income on which he his family have become a bit too dependent.
Welcome to the EK fear culture. It does not generally make for a fun day out (although there are of course exceptions).
Welcome to the EK fear culture. It does not generally make for a fun day out (although there are of course exceptions).
Originally Posted by SOPS
I mean flying a high performance, swept wing, wide body jet, is very different to flying a Dash 8.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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It's actually the TP guys I would have sympathy with in all of this.
After the elation of being selected to fly a big shiny jet in a big shiny city, they will soon be introduced to the Emirates way of training and realise that they are given precisely zero credit for the attributes on which, presumably, they were selected.
Then, having passed the training, they will have the pleasure of sitting next to an individual who has been doing EK long-haul just a bit too long
and is paranoid about some upstart ruining his precious track record
and jeopardising the income on which he his family have become a bit too dependent.
Welcome to the EK fear culture. It does not generally make for a fun day out (although there are of course exceptions).
What was your point?
Join Date: Oct 2006
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With the revised entry requirements at Emirates I am now eligible to apply (and yes mainly TP guy). I’ve done a lot of reading on this forum and will heed the advice of the experienced guys here and avoid the place like the plague. Not that it took much convincing after a cadetship offer from CX several years ago now. Will it help your cause for better T & C’s? Well I and many others didn’t help Cx for refusing, so unlikely to change what’s coming your way, at least for the newbys. IMHO Rubbish T & C’s of airline pilots are here to stay and it is a race to the bottom in no uncertain terms. For every one of me that won’t accept what’s happening and wants no part in it there are 100 guys/gals that will for whatever reason. Airline management and the bean counters will continue to capitalise on this fact and exploit it for all it’s worth. At the end of the day it’s a business. You're just a number unfortunately.
Is a TP guy suitably qualified? Some of you guys here need to get a grip. As someone said earlier, it’s not rocket science. Right training (not checking), attitude, work ethic, etc, etc,.... In any case best of luck to all of you in what invariably sounds like a sinking ship.
Is a TP guy suitably qualified? Some of you guys here need to get a grip. As someone said earlier, it’s not rocket science. Right training (not checking), attitude, work ethic, etc, etc,.... In any case best of luck to all of you in what invariably sounds like a sinking ship.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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If prior turboprop time didn't count about half of the US pilot corps, especially the Captains, would probably not be working at their airline.
If having time in the airplane is an absolute must no one would be qualified. How do you get job #1 if no one has flown that type airplane before?
It might be the diffference between the US and overseas POV. The major companies in the US don't care if you have time in type. They look for overall experience and background and how they rate vs their peers. Variety of experience and background (TRE/TRI/CKA/mgt vs having one or two qualifications in the last decade) counts more than time in type.
I checked my logbook - I observed landings by 57 different pilots last year. All experienced, some with years at the company and years in the airplane, and some with no time at the company or in the aircraft. Up to including having not flown for 7 years before a six week type rating course (2 wks GS, 2 wks sims -10 total, then 25 hrs IOE/LOE. Two of the three weakest had over 6000 hrs in type.
To me, in general, experience does not predict ability.
If having time in the airplane is an absolute must no one would be qualified. How do you get job #1 if no one has flown that type airplane before?
It might be the diffference between the US and overseas POV. The major companies in the US don't care if you have time in type. They look for overall experience and background and how they rate vs their peers. Variety of experience and background (TRE/TRI/CKA/mgt vs having one or two qualifications in the last decade) counts more than time in type.
I checked my logbook - I observed landings by 57 different pilots last year. All experienced, some with years at the company and years in the airplane, and some with no time at the company or in the aircraft. Up to including having not flown for 7 years before a six week type rating course (2 wks GS, 2 wks sims -10 total, then 25 hrs IOE/LOE. Two of the three weakest had over 6000 hrs in type.
To me, in general, experience does not predict ability.
Last edited by misd-agin; 9th Aug 2015 at 19:04.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I would gladly take an experienced TP guy in the right seat with me over any, I bought my job as a babysitter in a 320/737 for 250 hours, jet guy. Some of you really do need to get off your high horse. We are all just over glorified bus drivers.
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I for one am not a glorified bus driver. I am a professional who works hard to maintain a high level of professionalism. I try ro fly safely and efficiently and lead by example. I don't read papers or magazines in flight, I am looking at diversion airfields, pulling up plates, calculating landing performance and reading part C briefs. There are many other things we do as professionals to maintain our standards be it at home, in the briefing or on the flight; I say we because I am not unique, there are thousands like me.
Never put yourself or fellow aviators down, we have enough trouble trying to convince bean counters and management of our worth.
Back on thread...
The fact of the matter is TP or Jet it, as has been said before, depends on the individual. There are guys with from all walks of life with varying experience who are very capable and those that are not.
Never put yourself or fellow aviators down, we have enough trouble trying to convince bean counters and management of our worth.
Back on thread...
The fact of the matter is TP or Jet it, as has been said before, depends on the individual. There are guys with from all walks of life with varying experience who are very capable and those that are not.
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"calculating landing performance"? Really? I can save you a little effort : it's about 1800 meters for max manual braking.
Now you have time to read the paper.
Now you have time to read the paper.
Goat Herder?
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330goat - "I don't read papers or magazines in flight, I am looking at diversion airfields, pulling up plates, calculating landing performance and reading part C briefs."
Wouldn't the real professional not read at all by your standard? And wouldn't he read job related stuff prior to the flight?
Since the diversion airports stay fairly constant over an hour or two, and reviewing a handful of plates doesn't take that long, and landing performance doesn't change that much or take that long to look at, how much time do you spend reading the C briefs?
Personally I like the newspapers with pictures.
Wouldn't the real professional not read at all by your standard? And wouldn't he read job related stuff prior to the flight?
Since the diversion airports stay fairly constant over an hour or two, and reviewing a handful of plates doesn't take that long, and landing performance doesn't change that much or take that long to look at, how much time do you spend reading the C briefs?
Personally I like the newspapers with pictures.
Last edited by misd-agin; 10th Aug 2015 at 12:25. Reason: Added quotations
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Hey Goat boy...My statement wasn't a knock on our professionalism or our worth to a company. It was a statement which is very true and hate to break it to you, but that's exactly what we are (obviously with more responsibility and skill). You must be a blast to sit next to in the cockpit though. Keep checking those alternates and reading those Part whatever briefs.
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I'm a hell of a conversationalist!!!
I was just trying to make a point. There is a lot more to this job and I am not a glorified bus driver. I am a pilot who takes pride in his profession. Am I the only one?
Just like our crew are not glorified waitresses. They are there for our safety and having worked with a crew who had to perform CPR for 30 minutes to keep some chap alive, I have witnessed first hand how capable they are.
Anyhow, each to their own.
Now where did I put that manual.............
All the best, and sorry if any offence was caused.
320 (Goat Boy)
P.S. The whole reading material thing is covered in our Part A. Anyway, always found it a bit difficult peering at the instruments around the Telegraph, thank God for iPads!
I was just trying to make a point. There is a lot more to this job and I am not a glorified bus driver. I am a pilot who takes pride in his profession. Am I the only one?
Just like our crew are not glorified waitresses. They are there for our safety and having worked with a crew who had to perform CPR for 30 minutes to keep some chap alive, I have witnessed first hand how capable they are.
Anyhow, each to their own.
Now where did I put that manual.............
All the best, and sorry if any offence was caused.
320 (Goat Boy)
P.S. The whole reading material thing is covered in our Part A. Anyway, always found it a bit difficult peering at the instruments around the Telegraph, thank God for iPads!
Last edited by 320goat; 10th Aug 2015 at 14:52.