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Ponzi scheme targeting crew - Beware - do not become a victim.

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Ponzi scheme targeting crew - Beware - do not become a victim.

Old 4th Jul 2015, 02:00
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Well we will just see how it turns out in the end.

To me does not matter.....one bit.

You seem to be set on ``bringing it down``....good luck to you.....but I doubt you will prevail.

I will stand by on the sidelines and watch it happen.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 07:14
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All those comments are bull**** !!!

There is only one question to ask : are you ready to lose this money ?

If Yes , go for it.

If No , stay away .
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 07:15
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777.

None of my posts here are indicative of any knowledge of this investment "scheme" or any other knowledge . I posted a response to a request for a guarantee . You seem to have difficulty grasping the English language and the difference between what is facetious and genuine .Maybe I didn't put a smiley face ? Would that have been better ?

While on the topic of English and since you 'appear' to be from a native English Country ,do you know the difference between loose(s) and lose(s) , my understanding seems to differ from yours ? Not claiming any superior knowledge , just saying...
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 07:46
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skysx33

Enlightening post. Thank you.

Translation of your post for those unable to comprehend your wise advice:

I disagree with all the comments insinuating this is a Ponzi scheme. I have invested heavily and would like to protect my investment.
Are you a gambler with total disregard for your colleagues, devoid of any morals and prepared to get involved in a criminal act?

If you agree, put down $20000, or better yet take out a loan for $200000 and convince your colleagues to do the same.

If you disagree, continue flying, earn legal money, maybe start your own legitimate business, or actually start trading forex (cause this scheme doesn't) on your own and sleep soundly at night.

Last edited by Econ101; 4th Jul 2015 at 08:05.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 08:06
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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EYes Enlightening post indeed!

I have found something very simple to understand and pretty pertinent with this topic, it comes from ASICS (Australian Securities Investment Commission)

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/investment-scams/ponzi-schemes
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 08:47
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Michigan777

"There is nothing impossible about +9% a month..." Yes, I agree with you.

"..making 9% a month is pretty easy and simple". That's where we disagree.

There is a fundamental difference between the two. I've seen shares go up 20% in a month, but it's not every month. So, as much as you might snear and ridicule those that plan on working to 65 to provide a solid foundation for their retirement, you should ask yourself this. If it was so easy to make those kind of returns, have you ever wondered why all the financial advisors and experts aren't recommending these types of investment? Or maybe they'd rather just keep it a secret and use their own money to invest and retire at 35? A quick look at the Nasdaq top gainers for the last year will show some interesting figures. Amazon and Aetna both gained around 40% whilst Netflix managed a very impressive 91%. Those figures make the headlines. I know we're dealing with two very different investments here but your mindset that 9% gain every month is simple to achieve highlights your ignorance of building wealth and managing it. And for the record, 9% is the figure that all the cabin crew keep quoting and banking on.

My only advice to you and others that may be invested in this Company is to follow Warren Buffet's advice when interviewed as to his secret of successful investment. He replied; "......I always sold too early"

In simple terms, he made his money and got out. He wasn't greedy. Timing is everything in this game, especially a pyramid/ponzi scheme such as this. This is a 'get rich quick' game you and others are playing and it will end in tears. Lots of them!

Harry

Last edited by harry the cod; 4th Jul 2015 at 09:04.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 09:04
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Let us for a moment put aside the "ponzi" scheme talk. I don't have enough information to substantiate this belief, so I won't comment on it. I would like to address the forex issue though.

I consider this to be a wholly inappropriate investment for many of our crew and this is why.....

The returns are great and I have no doubt achievable. I have traded forex for several years and understand the market better than most. The returns, however, are meaningless by themselves. You need to consider them in the context of risk.

The risks here are :

1. trading system, which may or may not produce long term results, and its associated risk. Given the 56% loss in January, raises some serious questions about the risk profile of this trading system.

2. Regulation......I believe regulation is way over-rated. It gives an air of respectability to something that is little more than gambling. Regulation means nothing other than you may have a shot at launching a court action should things go wrong. It doesn't protect you if things go wrong and it won't foot the bill or help you recover lost funds. You need to cough up $$$$$ big time to have a shot.

3. Accountability. Carry on from point 2, regulation does not bring about accountability. Anybody with a bit of tech know how can set up a PAM/MAM account with a broker and start trading with other people's money. When it goes wrong, they can simply walk away because they are not held to account. At least a big wall street firm has reputation to think about. Here we have some anonymous traders doing their thing......

4. The retail FX market is a mug's game. It has no use other than as a hobby. There is simply too much systematic risk. Things like stop losses are not guaranteed. I had a broker miss my stop-loss once by 112 pips. Look at how many traders were wiped out by the CHF debacle in January. Black swan event??? The FX market has such events on a regular basis making it totally unsuitable for a long term investment. Institutional FX is possibly a different matter, but here you have experts that spend millions of $ to shave 1 millisecond off the latency experienced by their trading servers. So here we have a few weekend warriers trading with Metatrader and a VPS trying to compete with the institutions.......it is HIGH risk, make no mistake.

Michigan777flyer, you made reference to 7.5% on a stock trade. Thats nice. You are classed as a sophisticated investor. You know what you are doing and understand the risks. Presumably your trade was leveraged and coud just as easily have gone against you? Even then the stock market does not come close to the risk profile of the FX market.

Given the above info, surely it must be obvious that FX is not suitable as an investment, especially for people that do not understand the risks?? Knowing, or being told the risks, is meaningless without UNDERSTANDING the risk. It is simply not prudent or wise to "invest" what amounts almost a full years' wages in such a high risk activity? Or even worse borrowing the money

I don't have a horse in this race and it is not my job to "stop" people from doing this, but I do think that the more experienced amongst us need to provide a reality check to our younger colleagues that may blinded to the risk by their emotions and greed. If they still elect to go for it, well, then they will learn in another way.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 09:09
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Kennytheking

Thank you for a clear, unemotional and succinct post. You've clearly hit the nail on the head and people should take note. Well done sir!

Harry
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 09:54
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Keneth

Thankyou for the post, as I asked can we at least put some meat into the discussion regarding this so called ponzi.

Do you know much about myfxbook ? credible

regards

YR
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 10:14
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Thanks Harry.

You rock, yes, myfxbook is very credible. They have no horses in any race and have gone to great pains to provide 3rd party authentication of accounts.

This is not their primary trading account though, as you can see the balance is way too low considering the deposits that are being taken.

Presumably they are pointing to myfxbook as a reference account. I have a problem with this, as they are using myfxbook to try and establish credibility, yet what is happening in reality is different from their myfxbook profile. So where is the money? Why not have the primary account reflected on myfxbook?

As you can see, 56% loss in January followed by 4% returns(presumably toned down the risk levels a bit) compared to 9% on average paid out.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 10:38
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Kenneth

Yes understand what your saying regarding deposits taken and the equity balance shown, but as you said its a reference presumably on a 20k USD account.

I have found some stuff on myfxbook too enlighten debunk or call it what you will

let me know what you think

regards

YR

A guide to using and recognising myfxbook accounts
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 11:10
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This is not their primary trading account though, as you can see the balance is way too low considering the deposits that are being taken.

Presumably they are pointing to myfxbook as a reference account. I have a problem with this, as they are using myfxbook to try and establish credibility, yet what is happening in reality is different from their myfxbook profile. So where is the money? Why not have the primary account reflected on myfxbook?
They are using Mirror Trading and client funds are held in segregated managed accounts held within verified UAE bank accounts of the brokers, including FCI, not the company concerned here (and there no cash transactions).

The 4-6% account profit is, for some reason, measured against the total account balance which includes accumulated profits. You can see this in 2014... Gross profit in January 15%, reducing to 8% in November as the master account balance through profit accumulation grows. That's my understanding.

On myfxbook, you can see the actual monthly profits achieved in 2014 and 2015 on the trading balance of circ. 20k USD which is reflected in the segregated client accounts. Of course Econ101 won't post those graphs here, but to view them yourself, just click on the drop down menu on the right of the graph. If the data on myfxbook is verified, why would they need new client funds to support trading and payouts? I mentioned gross profits, they charge 30-40% fee on any profits achieved above certain thresholds, plus annual account maintenance fees.

I won't even bother commenting on the BVI = ponzi claims.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 14:52
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Well now, before getting all carried away with Kennytheking's financial brilliance, could we just scroll back to 2009, and the following post from the guru?

"Yeah, I am also waiting for my money.

Still, I don't think its a ponzi scheme. I did google F1 Investments and makes for some interesting reading......just highlights the lack of knowledge out there. People don't seem to understand how the FX market works and can't comprehend 100% plus returns."
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 15:13
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Snake

Would you advocate the cabin crew investing in this Company? Many of us at some time or another have had our fingers burned. That's how we learn, from experience. Is this thread not designed to warn those less experienced to be careful?

Harry
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 15:25
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Snake man, good point. I have been wrong before. As Harry pointed out, I have been there, done that and lost the t-shirt. Use the experience which ever way you wish.

I lost over $10 000 with F1, so I know what awaits the naive......
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 15:36
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Can someone enlighten on F1 investments, was it a ponzi or just someone running off with the cash
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 15:44
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No Harry, I certainly would not. Nor would I have advised anyone to get involved in EPI/F1/Property Concepts/Mayfair and Hamptead etc.
I believe we came here to take the money, not give it back.

Sorry, Kenny. I was being a bit hard on you.

SM
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 20:16
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You rock:

Glad you are doing some research. You will find all the information you need on myfxbook to enable you to ask pertinent questions. The facts do speak for themselves and do point to the fact that this is indeed a Ponzi scheme.

Kennytheking.

As you rightly pointed out this cannot possibly be their primary account just a reference account. One would hope it is not the case that this is the only account.

As Yorkshire_Pudding points out, these guys claim they are mirroring this account, and you have a segregated account that does exactly what you see on the graphs of this reference account.

For arguments sake, lets for a moment assume that investors in fact have segregated accounts which indeed mirror this account.

The problem lies in the fact that this reference account does not generate anywhere near enough returns to pay out the av. 9% profits! This reference account makes 1.83% monthly on average.

This reference account was set up with $20K on the 7th May 14. They claim it accumulates profits and is a true/mirror of how your account is performing.

Well the ROI of this account is actually 28.8 %(from 7 May 14 until today) . To get an accurate rate of return you must look at the Abs. Gain 17.09% (as the abs gain factors in new deposits..more on this later). I would be satisfied with a 17.09% return on my investment.

How is it that you receive 9% a month? For this to be possible the ROI/Gain would have to be at least 100%. It is not. Where are your profits coming from?



There is naturally a huge element of risk involved in FX, to achieve this 17.09 % pa return, which I am sure the sales/conmen inform you about.

This account is leveraged at 1:200 (although the website claims otherwise).

The initial $20k did not generate this 17.09% return on its own.

Due to the leverage and risk, each time there is a loss, it is huge. The account has to be recapitalized to cover the losses.

Have you ever been asked to recapitalize your accounts when a loss is incurred – course not.

In fact $222270 has been deposited into this reference account during the last year. The 17.09% was generated by this $222270 not by the initial $20000.

Were you ever asked to deposit more money to increase your account balance by 10x as this reference account has been. Course not. Why?

Your money was probably never invested in FX so the losses affecting this reference account were never incurred.

The facts speak for themselves. There still might be time to get out.

Last edited by Econ101; 4th Jul 2015 at 23:53.
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Old 4th Jul 2015, 20:45
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Nice one Econ...

Cat. Pigeons. Amongst.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 03:15
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