EK : south west airline pilots join fight against ME 3
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Harry - I'd agree with you except for the Housing Allowance. The allowance MAY work out for some people who have bought but it is an obvious risk. If people want to comment about Apples then you have take into account interest, loss of investment income from your downpayment, maintenance and other cost etc etc etc.
I still contend that the housing allowance should not be included in your analysis since it is not a given and bears significant risk. It is NOT a true form of income. If we are to include housing then we should also be factoring risk analysis and comparing it to the risk you hold in owning property in the US.
I still contend that the housing allowance should not be included in your analysis since it is not a given and bears significant risk. It is NOT a true form of income. If we are to include housing then we should also be factoring risk analysis and comparing it to the risk you hold in owning property in the US.
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Harry and highflier
Do you have a U.S.accounting degree? I guess not.
Approximately 28% tax bracket.
They don't tax the following on monthly pay check.
1. Social Security - retirement gov
2. 401k - retirement A
3. Retirement B/C - depending on if want to be taxt now or after your retirement age.
The above is taken from your Gross monthly pay.
15 year Southwest 737 Captain $ 30,000 a month gross this if he works full time at 100 block hours or 1000 block year. Or 150+ credit hours a month!
Schooling is FREE in the U.S.
Come tax year. Deductions for at least the following:
Housing interest paid.
Wife and family.
Business expenses
Airline expenses
Other business transactions.
What IRS takes minus the SS and retirement a month, you get back "almost all" of it at tax filing. 9,000 to 12,000 depending on your expenses and deductions. So almost NIL or not tax at all.
Housing:
Do you acrue equity in your company accommodation for the 10 to 15 years in Dubai? Nope. You used that allowance if you want to pay off your rent if you leave out.
Does owning a home in the U.S.
acrue in equity? Yes - well above your allowance over time plus the U.S. Gov takes care of the interest charged for owning a home.
What is your overall "Net" worth to an American 15 year SWA capt over a 15 Boeing/Airbus CA over a life span of 10-15 years? No comparison! An FO don't even lose their salary security when they transfer over.
LAKER is spot on!
For the 2 of you, don't be boastful for something you totally have no understanding about.
Do you have a U.S.accounting degree? I guess not.
Approximately 28% tax bracket.
They don't tax the following on monthly pay check.
1. Social Security - retirement gov
2. 401k - retirement A
3. Retirement B/C - depending on if want to be taxt now or after your retirement age.
The above is taken from your Gross monthly pay.
15 year Southwest 737 Captain $ 30,000 a month gross this if he works full time at 100 block hours or 1000 block year. Or 150+ credit hours a month!
Schooling is FREE in the U.S.
Come tax year. Deductions for at least the following:
Housing interest paid.
Wife and family.
Business expenses
Airline expenses
Other business transactions.
What IRS takes minus the SS and retirement a month, you get back "almost all" of it at tax filing. 9,000 to 12,000 depending on your expenses and deductions. So almost NIL or not tax at all.
Housing:
Do you acrue equity in your company accommodation for the 10 to 15 years in Dubai? Nope. You used that allowance if you want to pay off your rent if you leave out.
Does owning a home in the U.S.
acrue in equity? Yes - well above your allowance over time plus the U.S. Gov takes care of the interest charged for owning a home.
What is your overall "Net" worth to an American 15 year SWA capt over a 15 Boeing/Airbus CA over a life span of 10-15 years? No comparison! An FO don't even lose their salary security when they transfer over.
LAKER is spot on!
For the 2 of you, don't be boastful for something you totally have no understanding about.
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There's risk almost everywhere, not just in Dubai which, by the way, I'd hardly describe as significant. Off plan maybe, built, less so. History has examples of expats having 'their' homes demolished in Spain because of legal irregularities, land rights contested in Cyprus, homes commandeered in Zimbabwe, Kenya and even talk of South Africa now.
Yes, UK and US along with many other places generally safe but even if you're not taking the accommodation allowance, the benefit of a free villa with all bills paid cannot be ignored. Your own house 'back home' can be rented and that's extra income as you are now no longer the one paying the mortgage, along with a notable decrease in expenditure courtesy of Company paid water/electricity/gas/etc
It really doesn't matter what source the money comes from, it's the final amount that gets into you saving account that matters, yes?
Yes, UK and US along with many other places generally safe but even if you're not taking the accommodation allowance, the benefit of a free villa with all bills paid cannot be ignored. Your own house 'back home' can be rented and that's extra income as you are now no longer the one paying the mortgage, along with a notable decrease in expenditure courtesy of Company paid water/electricity/gas/etc
It really doesn't matter what source the money comes from, it's the final amount that gets into you saving account that matters, yes?
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aveo
Nothing boastful about it, merely setting out the facts from EK perspective. I know little about the complexities of the US tax system other than it's variable dependent on State. Do I assume from the example you gave that the Southwest Captain, working his 150 hours + credit (overtime?) can claim almost all of the tax back. So, take home is still around $30k per month? Not trying to stir the pot, just curious as that's one hell of a take home. That's something I would want to boast about!
As for accruing equity, no, not on a Company provided free villa but you still accrue equity on the home that's rented out back home. Just because you don't pay the mortgage doesn't mean the property stops making money. It's not just US properties that make equity or did they not teach you that when you did your U.S accounting degree? I guess not.
Never mind, just hope you haven't 'invested' in Baltimore. Not much equity there now i'd imagine. Come to think of it, not much anything there now............
Harry
Nothing boastful about it, merely setting out the facts from EK perspective. I know little about the complexities of the US tax system other than it's variable dependent on State. Do I assume from the example you gave that the Southwest Captain, working his 150 hours + credit (overtime?) can claim almost all of the tax back. So, take home is still around $30k per month? Not trying to stir the pot, just curious as that's one hell of a take home. That's something I would want to boast about!
As for accruing equity, no, not on a Company provided free villa but you still accrue equity on the home that's rented out back home. Just because you don't pay the mortgage doesn't mean the property stops making money. It's not just US properties that make equity or did they not teach you that when you did your U.S accounting degree? I guess not.
Never mind, just hope you haven't 'invested' in Baltimore. Not much equity there now i'd imagine. Come to think of it, not much anything there now............
Harry
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I will have to agree that a Delta pilot making more than 50% more than an Emirates pilot might be a bit high. However when you include everything and I mean everything there is no and I mean no comparison between the two pilots.
A Delta pilot works 10 days max. In the very near future an Emirates pilot will be lucky to have 10 days off a month.
A Delta pilot works 75 hours a month while a Emirates pilot works 95 and soon to be over a 100 hours. . That 25% difference in work hours is equivalent to the tax burden back home (and abroad if you are an US citizen).
Also a U.S. Major pilot has a much better lifestyle back home. He lives in a bigger house, has a bigger yard (not a garden), and can join a better country club or just a country club. Even FOs in the states have a better lifestyle than an Emirates captain. Note I didn't say salary but that is very close.
We can argue tax implications, lifestyle and whose male organ is bigger but with all things equal (we are not comparing RJs to wide bodies) there is no comparison. How many Emirates pilots are trying to get to Delta vs how many Delta pilots are trying to go to Emirates? I know of two Emirates pilots that left Delta many years ago and have re-applied to go back to Delta.
Here's hoping to a very large Bonus and pay raise.
A Delta pilot works 10 days max. In the very near future an Emirates pilot will be lucky to have 10 days off a month.
A Delta pilot works 75 hours a month while a Emirates pilot works 95 and soon to be over a 100 hours. . That 25% difference in work hours is equivalent to the tax burden back home (and abroad if you are an US citizen).
Also a U.S. Major pilot has a much better lifestyle back home. He lives in a bigger house, has a bigger yard (not a garden), and can join a better country club or just a country club. Even FOs in the states have a better lifestyle than an Emirates captain. Note I didn't say salary but that is very close.
We can argue tax implications, lifestyle and whose male organ is bigger but with all things equal (we are not comparing RJs to wide bodies) there is no comparison. How many Emirates pilots are trying to get to Delta vs how many Delta pilots are trying to go to Emirates? I know of two Emirates pilots that left Delta many years ago and have re-applied to go back to Delta.
Here's hoping to a very large Bonus and pay raise.
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Harry the Cod
Here is your remarks to Laker.
Boastful and no understanding:
"50% more pay? Sorry LAKER, going to call you on that one. No doubt those guys who are more senior will be doing nice routes and less hours....but not for 50% more pay. 12 year EK Captain clears $19,000+ each month with accommodation allowance. That would put a 12 year Delta guy CLEARING $28,000 every month! I don't think so"
This is your question to me:
"Do I assume from the example you gave that the Southwest Captain, working his 150 hours + credit (overtime?) can claim almost all of the tax back. So, take home is still around $30k per month?" >> Yes, it's called a CONTRACT!
This is your statement:
"That's something I would want to boast about!" >> They don't have to. They know each other's (legacy) contract. Like I know yours.
"As for accruing equity, no, not on a Company provided free villa but you still accrue equity on the home that's rented out back home.Just because you don't pay the mortgage doesn't mean the property stops making money." >>> It's called "Other Business Transactions ie Vacation Home, Investment properties, etc" in the U.S.! Did I say you "don't" accrue equity in your "other" properties around the world? Do you know how they appreciate or depreciate in "market value?"
"It's not just US properties that make equity or did they not teach you that when you did your U.S accounting degree? I guess not. " >>>> Where did I say that? I guess not!
"Never mind, just hope you haven't 'invested' in Baltimore. Not much equity there now i'd imagine. Come to think of it, not much anything there now............ " >>>> Not all, I can freely live, move about, and invest in 50 states and the district plus "other countries as well." Try not to go below the belt when someone calls you out in your "uneducated" rant.
This is your true stamens you made thus far:
"I know little about the complexities of the US tax system other than it's variable dependent on State."
***
Do not include the educational allowance in your computation in comparing it to the U.S. since its a given they have to pay that as part of "expat" expense. Especially, the cost of education in Dubai is well above the allowance theshold which "you" have to pay out, that is not even including the 4th child, the extra curricular activities that you have to pay. Would you like me to mention some more you that you pay out?
Like I said, Lakers post is spot on.
It's not about which airline is better, which nationality can top each other, or the mentally of which my country is better than yours. It's about the best choice and opportunity you made for your family and yourself. It's called, RESPECT. If don't like it, you are free to leave that airline.
If you want to be "educated" some more in private, let's meet up at a "Costa" place of your choice.
Boastful and no understanding:
"50% more pay? Sorry LAKER, going to call you on that one. No doubt those guys who are more senior will be doing nice routes and less hours....but not for 50% more pay. 12 year EK Captain clears $19,000+ each month with accommodation allowance. That would put a 12 year Delta guy CLEARING $28,000 every month! I don't think so"
This is your question to me:
"Do I assume from the example you gave that the Southwest Captain, working his 150 hours + credit (overtime?) can claim almost all of the tax back. So, take home is still around $30k per month?" >> Yes, it's called a CONTRACT!
This is your statement:
"That's something I would want to boast about!" >> They don't have to. They know each other's (legacy) contract. Like I know yours.
"As for accruing equity, no, not on a Company provided free villa but you still accrue equity on the home that's rented out back home.Just because you don't pay the mortgage doesn't mean the property stops making money." >>> It's called "Other Business Transactions ie Vacation Home, Investment properties, etc" in the U.S.! Did I say you "don't" accrue equity in your "other" properties around the world? Do you know how they appreciate or depreciate in "market value?"
"It's not just US properties that make equity or did they not teach you that when you did your U.S accounting degree? I guess not. " >>>> Where did I say that? I guess not!
"Never mind, just hope you haven't 'invested' in Baltimore. Not much equity there now i'd imagine. Come to think of it, not much anything there now............ " >>>> Not all, I can freely live, move about, and invest in 50 states and the district plus "other countries as well." Try not to go below the belt when someone calls you out in your "uneducated" rant.
This is your true stamens you made thus far:
"I know little about the complexities of the US tax system other than it's variable dependent on State."
***
Do not include the educational allowance in your computation in comparing it to the U.S. since its a given they have to pay that as part of "expat" expense. Especially, the cost of education in Dubai is well above the allowance theshold which "you" have to pay out, that is not even including the 4th child, the extra curricular activities that you have to pay. Would you like me to mention some more you that you pay out?
Like I said, Lakers post is spot on.
It's not about which airline is better, which nationality can top each other, or the mentally of which my country is better than yours. It's about the best choice and opportunity you made for your family and yourself. It's called, RESPECT. If don't like it, you are free to leave that airline.
If you want to be "educated" some more in private, let's meet up at a "Costa" place of your choice.
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The housing argument is an interesting one. There is certainly a benefit to company accommodation but what is it really worth?
Harry, you include housing rental income back home? Maybe for you but that's assuming of course one has a house "back home" or elsewhere. Accruing equity is a very valid point. Many have lost out on substantial gains "back home" not owning a home thinking they can simply save enough in the ME. Personally, I would struggle to buy the house we left "back home" due to the huge appreciation in price over 10 years. Aveo has some very valid points and it would certainly be relevant for those from parts of the UK, Australia and Canada as well as the US.
Let's hope next week helps us all out a little bit more.
Harry, you include housing rental income back home? Maybe for you but that's assuming of course one has a house "back home" or elsewhere. Accruing equity is a very valid point. Many have lost out on substantial gains "back home" not owning a home thinking they can simply save enough in the ME. Personally, I would struggle to buy the house we left "back home" due to the huge appreciation in price over 10 years. Aveo has some very valid points and it would certainly be relevant for those from parts of the UK, Australia and Canada as well as the US.
Let's hope next week helps us all out a little bit more.
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Southwest has not been in bankruptcy, and has made money every year since they existed, except maybe the first year I think, when they had 3 aircraft. And they pay per "trip" hours, it is a different system then what other airlines are used to. I have many friends that can average 130+ trip hours a month, if they can work the system correctly. Some also enjoy many more flexibility in that they can work even part time if they wish. I can't say with 100% certainity if things have changed in the past couple years, but it has been like that for a long time. Just FYI. Cheers
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This may help put the value of company housing into perspective.
In my previous company I received housing allowance (fair but not generous) and had to pay income tax.
My gross salary each month was exactly twice what I currently get (net) in Emirates. My disposable income after paying for accommodation and income tax was almost exactly the same as I have now.
The thirteenth month's salary in December (guaranteed) and generous profit share is a story for another day.
In my previous company I received housing allowance (fair but not generous) and had to pay income tax.
My gross salary each month was exactly twice what I currently get (net) in Emirates. My disposable income after paying for accommodation and income tax was almost exactly the same as I have now.
The thirteenth month's salary in December (guaranteed) and generous profit share is a story for another day.
