Time to move the 380 cockpit door?
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Time to move the 380 cockpit door?
In light of recent incidents, would it not be a great idea to move the locking flight deck door to the bottom of the stairs? This would leave us with our own bathroom, ie no pilot has to leave the flight deck and be unable to return whilst the added benefit is that there are no longer pax right up at the door - potentially- as you enter/exit the cockpit.
Discuss.....
Discuss.....
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It brings up another question.
In light of the new policy issued this morning on all Flt Plans via Conotams - short sighted IMO
Which is more likely at one of the big ME airlines (granted both highly unlikely, but...)
A rogue pilot who has had intensive training and psyche evals along the way or a rogue male CC who, under far less scrutiny, is a 'sleeper fanatic' and wants to meet some virgins in the clouds...and now has literally full access to flight deck multiple times during a flight because of new rule.
Watch your six?
f.
In light of the new policy issued this morning on all Flt Plans via Conotams - short sighted IMO
Which is more likely at one of the big ME airlines (granted both highly unlikely, but...)
A rogue pilot who has had intensive training and psyche evals along the way or a rogue male CC who, under far less scrutiny, is a 'sleeper fanatic' and wants to meet some virgins in the clouds...and now has literally full access to flight deck multiple times during a flight because of new rule.
Watch your six?
f.
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Virgins in the clouds???
Well let's don't mix it up here , because what happened lately had nothing to do with what you are pointing to using the words ( fanatics , virgins ) this is totally insignificant and cheap.
But I respect the main idea you mentioned about the difference between cabin crew evaluation and pilot evaluation and it makes a lot of sense.
But I respect the main idea you mentioned about the difference between cabin crew evaluation and pilot evaluation and it makes a lot of sense.
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Accepting that the "sleeper fanatic" scenario is unlikely, how about a cabin crew member who is just a disgruntled employee? Somebody who is overworked, jet-lagged, poorly paid and feels unappreciated by the company? Possibly with added stress such as boyfriend/girlfriend trouble, being in a load of debt and away from the support network of family and friends. This is not just a Middle East scenario, it could happen in a lot of airlines in the world.
Some airlines have tens of thousands of cabin crew. It is simple statistics that a few of those are going to be depressed and some of those will be suicidal. Thanks to the publicity of recent days they now know it is possible to bring down an aircraft with a simple turn of a knob in less than 10 minutes. And they know where the crash axe is.
It seems to me that the two crew in the cockpit rule is a knee jerk reaction which potentially could cause as many problems as it solves.
Some airlines have tens of thousands of cabin crew. It is simple statistics that a few of those are going to be depressed and some of those will be suicidal. Thanks to the publicity of recent days they now know it is possible to bring down an aircraft with a simple turn of a knob in less than 10 minutes. And they know where the crash axe is.
It seems to me that the two crew in the cockpit rule is a knee jerk reaction which potentially could cause as many problems as it solves.
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So now we have to ask the cabin crew permission to go to the lav... It´s fine on a European low-cost, you don´t have to relieve yourself on a 2 hour flight, but to counter act the total boredom on a 8.5 hour night flight we need to be able to move about... Total knee jerk reaction and just so typical...
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The toilet outside the 380 flight deck is a disgrace and should never be allowed it's only a matter of time before there is going to be a serious incident with a pax gaining access to the cockpit. The regulators should not allow it but somehow Emirates get away with it.
Regarding having 2 crew in the cockpit it's a knee jerk reaction which potentially could be more problematic. Regarding fitness to fly and mental issues I really have a problem with professional pilots being unable to operate a sector without having to pray for 10 minutes...again never going to be addressed by the company for obvious reasons.
Regarding having 2 crew in the cockpit it's a knee jerk reaction which potentially could be more problematic. Regarding fitness to fly and mental issues I really have a problem with professional pilots being unable to operate a sector without having to pray for 10 minutes...again never going to be addressed by the company for obvious reasons.
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Emratty
What is your problem if a professional pilot prayed for 10 minutes during the flight, when it is time to pray in his religion " I mean it is only 10 minutes , so is going to the toilet --ok could be shorter lets say 5 minutes"
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Totally agree about moving the door on the 380 but there is no way that will happen.
I reckon its only a matter of time before they think about providing a tiny portable camping loo on the flight deck. We'll no doubt have to take it in and out ourselves and empty it. The highlight of the day! We might even get paid a s*it allowance for using it
I reckon its only a matter of time before they think about providing a tiny portable camping loo on the flight deck. We'll no doubt have to take it in and out ourselves and empty it. The highlight of the day! We might even get paid a s*it allowance for using it
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Flion, Emratty and Geordie I agree with your posts.
One point I'd like to mention is last time I took QF F I remember there being 2 sets of doors to the front, an inner and outer. The outer door seemed to keep a set of bunks and I presume a toilet away from prying eyes before the inner door to the cockpit.
The LH 748 has a toilet within the F/D.
One point I'd like to mention is last time I took QF F I remember there being 2 sets of doors to the front, an inner and outer. The outer door seemed to keep a set of bunks and I presume a toilet away from prying eyes before the inner door to the cockpit.
The LH 748 has a toilet within the F/D.
short flights long nights
As I understand it, the Airbus design of the A380 is for a inner an outer door for the cockpit crew. EK in their wisdom, changed this to allow passengers to use the toilet/s that were meant for exclusive crew use.
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OK, so you have two crew in the flight deck..
just how difficult will it be..? 
all this talk about moving the toilet door or other means.. lets say there is a toilet in the flight deck.. (or a CC guarding during the flight.. same effect).. is that really going to stop a single individual that has obvious good knowledge of the a/c? What about switching it all off, and pointing it straight down? maybe a nice roll for dramatic effect? are you going to get off the crapper in time (g's) to 'safe the day'? doubt it..
But agreed, the commercially overruling design adaptations in EK are not safety enhancing..
Maybe.. just Maybe some less stick and more carrot in this industry could prevent at least a few of these devastating events..
Pointer
all this talk about moving the toilet door or other means.. lets say there is a toilet in the flight deck.. (or a CC guarding during the flight.. same effect).. is that really going to stop a single individual that has obvious good knowledge of the a/c? What about switching it all off, and pointing it straight down? maybe a nice roll for dramatic effect? are you going to get off the crapper in time (g's) to 'safe the day'? doubt it.. But agreed, the commercially overruling design adaptations in EK are not safety enhancing..
Maybe.. just Maybe some less stick and more carrot in this industry could prevent at least a few of these devastating events..
Pointer
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the Airbus design of the A380 is for a inner an outer door for the cockpit crew. EK in their wisdom, changed this to allow passengers to use the toilet/s
Ironically, having a CC in the cockpit whenever a pilot wants to use the lav means twice as many door openings as otherwise and twice as many opportunities for the security provided by the door to be defeated. The door is opened to admit the CC, then again when the pilot leaves and then twice more again in reverse when he returns.
If they enter/exit at the same time the door is still open for twice as long as normal as they shuffle around each other. Another kneejerk reaction in the rush to be seen to be doing something.
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All of a sudden, the freighter seems like an attractive option. No cabin crew, passengers or door.
Now the only thing to worry about is the cargo and/or if it was loaded properly
Cant win
Now the only thing to worry about is the cargo and/or if it was loaded properly
Cant win
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Pointer, I think you touched on the root cause with this quote, "Maybe.. just Maybe some less stick and more carrot in this industry could prevent at least a few of these devastating events...."