How many Pilots have left/Leaving Emirates
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Marsellus is either a complete idiot or EGT , in his spare time, being paid to peddle the company line. 900 hours is the norm? Only in companies theat have no concern for their crew's long term health. By the way guys, the dogs say hi, they reckon it's great to have dad to take them to the beach, and the relief I feel is incredible.
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Yeah, how does that work? I thought all the new labels were to prevent 2 of anything. Now we have 2 DCPA's... Or is one CDPA or CPAD. Whatever, nice to see they're maintaining their firm grasp of the non essentials.
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Captain Chip****
Why Captain? You are whining in the right seat are you? Commenting that DEC would not exist anymore due to "qualified" Fo's... Like you?
You are a frustrated fool to believe your own nonsense. You were writing that you will leave the pit and EK Feb 14. But presently still whining in the left seat with no contingency plan available. You call yourself a Captain boy?
Do you really think that in Asia you would fly regulated minimum hours. You better concentrate on non HR publicity and non Internet commercials. Get your facts straight. They will let you fly the max possible! Maybe if you weren't that shortsighted you wouldn't be in the pit at all...
Why Captain? You are whining in the right seat are you? Commenting that DEC would not exist anymore due to "qualified" Fo's... Like you?
You are a frustrated fool to believe your own nonsense. You were writing that you will leave the pit and EK Feb 14. But presently still whining in the left seat with no contingency plan available. You call yourself a Captain boy?
Do you really think that in Asia you would fly regulated minimum hours. You better concentrate on non HR publicity and non Internet commercials. Get your facts straight. They will let you fly the max possible! Maybe if you weren't that shortsighted you wouldn't be in the pit at all...
Last edited by Marsellus; 24th Mar 2015 at 10:43. Reason: *
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You mean like this?
"This message is hidden because Marsellus is on your ignore list."
Look under "User CP" at the left side of the PPRUNE menu bar.
"This message is hidden because Marsellus is on your ignore list."
Look under "User CP" at the left side of the PPRUNE menu bar.
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Ok this is my first ever post on pprune and I do so with some trepidation and fear of being blasted for being a troll etc. Anyway hopefully all goes well and if possible I would like to ask if we could keep this to hard facts and figures.
I am personally struggeling to see the issues being raised and there are couple of reasons for this
I currently work for a small(ish) European regional airline. Coming to Emirates as an F/O would put me on more money then captains are making here. I also feel that my monthly outgoings would shrink. Me and my partner spend the equivalent of about 13000Dhs a month on bills. This includes 5000Dhs on a mortgage. I do not see how my bills in Dubai could add up to anywhere near this ammount.
I have seen on here people quoting figures of 5000Dhs-6000dhs a month for food for a family of 4. We currently dont have kids but our food bill for 2 is about 2500dhs a month here in the UK.
I then see the statements about schools. Yes there is state education here but unless you are lucky with schools you are more than likely looking to go private for a good school. I dont know exact numbers but you are therefore looking at potentially 65000dhs a year on schooling and thats with no extra help from my company.
I then read people quoting info about tennis lessons etc for kids costing a lot. Tell me if i'm wrong (preferably in a nice way) but aren't these just costs generally associated with having kids? I would imagine that sort of thing would not be cheap here either.
In terms of flight times and fatigue etc. again things here are not peachy. I am currently away on 5 day trip to then finish late on friday and start again on earlies mon. This is generally my life; what is the equivalent of a 5/2 roster being away at least 3 of those 5 days. We tend to do 4 sector days and personally I find that it is the turnarounds that tire me out the most. When I do get home because my partner works shifts as well more often then not she is at work and I wont see her. I feel that in Dubai at least there would be no pressure on her having to work and so she would be home more when I get back from trips. You also get no support from management and requests for days off being denied.
From a personal point of view I therefore cannot see how my life could not be better in Dubai.
I look forward to the onslaught but hopefully everyone will play nice and maybe stay on topic
I am personally struggeling to see the issues being raised and there are couple of reasons for this
I currently work for a small(ish) European regional airline. Coming to Emirates as an F/O would put me on more money then captains are making here. I also feel that my monthly outgoings would shrink. Me and my partner spend the equivalent of about 13000Dhs a month on bills. This includes 5000Dhs on a mortgage. I do not see how my bills in Dubai could add up to anywhere near this ammount.
I have seen on here people quoting figures of 5000Dhs-6000dhs a month for food for a family of 4. We currently dont have kids but our food bill for 2 is about 2500dhs a month here in the UK.
I then see the statements about schools. Yes there is state education here but unless you are lucky with schools you are more than likely looking to go private for a good school. I dont know exact numbers but you are therefore looking at potentially 65000dhs a year on schooling and thats with no extra help from my company.
I then read people quoting info about tennis lessons etc for kids costing a lot. Tell me if i'm wrong (preferably in a nice way) but aren't these just costs generally associated with having kids? I would imagine that sort of thing would not be cheap here either.
In terms of flight times and fatigue etc. again things here are not peachy. I am currently away on 5 day trip to then finish late on friday and start again on earlies mon. This is generally my life; what is the equivalent of a 5/2 roster being away at least 3 of those 5 days. We tend to do 4 sector days and personally I find that it is the turnarounds that tire me out the most. When I do get home because my partner works shifts as well more often then not she is at work and I wont see her. I feel that in Dubai at least there would be no pressure on her having to work and so she would be home more when I get back from trips. You also get no support from management and requests for days off being denied.
From a personal point of view I therefore cannot see how my life could not be better in Dubai.
I look forward to the onslaught but hopefully everyone will play nice and maybe stay on topic
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Pig
Please come and join the party, maybe we will get more than 8 days off in the month or the leave we are contracted for. 91.5 hours a month is so 2012 so cum take the strain and give us a rest. Your partner will enjoy her time in dubai on her own, trying to gain entry to one of the many full beach clubs
J
J
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Flyingpig, sensible post and you bring a perspective that won't be welcomed here. When people say don't come to EK because the garden at their accommodation is too small you know the thread has fallen off a cliff.
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FP, came to the pit more than 15 years ago, got my envelope out and did exactly the same numbers as you. I was going to get a pay rise on joining and be golden. My only luxury would be a club membership because I had to be able to fill my downtime but had to give that up because there was no choice.
So what happened? As an FO I had saved only what was in my provident fund. Where had the money gone, still can't work it out! The big question is whether I will have enough money to retire on leaving and the answer is maybe but then I have had a few dodgy property deals because there was no choice.
Probably the one cost I didn't factor into the equation that hurt at the outset was the cost of keeping in touch with my home. I went back occasionally on trips but rarely saw the family, we as a family seemed to spend any leave I had off traipsing around the home country as nomads trying to catch up with friends and family. Eventually I came to resent the time and money it cost, but there was no choice.
The single biggest issue with being an expat for me is having absolutely no choice in where you live. I don't mean a Jumeirah vs Meydan, I mean San Diego vs Minneapolis, actually working close enough to your roots. As your family grows and your family at home ages you struggle to keep up. Eventually you let your roots die or you leave. The accommodation is palatial if you come from an appartment but otherwise rather disappointing but we all made do because there was no choice.
As to the package here, the issue is that it spirals downwards and that some in the leadership seem to want to turn aviation into a 24 hour office job with 2 days off a week. They do not understand from their First Class seat on a vacation why anyone would get tired. This means the rosters are artificially destroyed even though there is no additional benefit or cost to the company but we all made do with it because there was no choice.
The root cause of all of these issues is a disrespectful culture that views employees as liabilities. A vindictive attitude to crew from people that are not in their positions due to innate competence. When anyone tries to make a positive change or raise an issue that costs nothing, they are told directly in these precise words in front of their peers, "if you don't like it, leave" but we all made do because we had no choice.
Note "had" and that is why people have started to leave. I do not regret my time here but I am very disappointed that the culture inside the airline does not match the positive brand portrayed to the outside world. It could easily change to a positive respectful culture, the executive board have that choice.
As a young lad come along and see you may well love it but just remember one thing; you still have a choice.
So what happened? As an FO I had saved only what was in my provident fund. Where had the money gone, still can't work it out! The big question is whether I will have enough money to retire on leaving and the answer is maybe but then I have had a few dodgy property deals because there was no choice.
Probably the one cost I didn't factor into the equation that hurt at the outset was the cost of keeping in touch with my home. I went back occasionally on trips but rarely saw the family, we as a family seemed to spend any leave I had off traipsing around the home country as nomads trying to catch up with friends and family. Eventually I came to resent the time and money it cost, but there was no choice.
The single biggest issue with being an expat for me is having absolutely no choice in where you live. I don't mean a Jumeirah vs Meydan, I mean San Diego vs Minneapolis, actually working close enough to your roots. As your family grows and your family at home ages you struggle to keep up. Eventually you let your roots die or you leave. The accommodation is palatial if you come from an appartment but otherwise rather disappointing but we all made do because there was no choice.
As to the package here, the issue is that it spirals downwards and that some in the leadership seem to want to turn aviation into a 24 hour office job with 2 days off a week. They do not understand from their First Class seat on a vacation why anyone would get tired. This means the rosters are artificially destroyed even though there is no additional benefit or cost to the company but we all made do with it because there was no choice.
The root cause of all of these issues is a disrespectful culture that views employees as liabilities. A vindictive attitude to crew from people that are not in their positions due to innate competence. When anyone tries to make a positive change or raise an issue that costs nothing, they are told directly in these precise words in front of their peers, "if you don't like it, leave" but we all made do because we had no choice.
Note "had" and that is why people have started to leave. I do not regret my time here but I am very disappointed that the culture inside the airline does not match the positive brand portrayed to the outside world. It could easily change to a positive respectful culture, the executive board have that choice.
As a young lad come along and see you may well love it but just remember one thing; you still have a choice.
Last edited by ekwhistleblower; 25th Mar 2015 at 02:28. Reason: Eng
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Also, if you decide to start a family soon after you get here be aware that you need to be in the company a certain amount of time before maternity costs are covered AND if your child is born with anything congenital then insurance won't cover it.
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From a personal point of view I therefore cannot see how my life could not be better in Dubai.
Things are in a state at EK that they have never been before, with people leaving, and not joining. If I was on the outside considering joining, this would alarm me, and I would try and understand why. The reasons have been given ad infinitum on this forum. If you choose to believe your own calculations, that is indeed your own choice, and one you will have to live with. But as ekwhistleblower's excellent post says: at this point you still have a choice.
You will not have the choice to leave so easily, once there. Not unless you relish the 45K, 5 yr bond. And you will certainly have no freedom to make most choices after joining.
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Flying Pig:
It's valid of course what you say but the Airline industry in the middle east is currently expanding so fast that none of the major players can find sufficient, quality, crew. Why would you choose to go to the company that from these threads clearly is probably among the worst to work for, I believe its because the marketing department could sell poo as chocolate. One guide that I find fairly accurate is the less said about an Airline on this website, the better it is, you always get some guys that want to put you off. In the case of Emirates people are obviously fatigued and operating in a forever deteriorating environment.
My advice is to look at all the Asian and Middle east options before you choose.
It's valid of course what you say but the Airline industry in the middle east is currently expanding so fast that none of the major players can find sufficient, quality, crew. Why would you choose to go to the company that from these threads clearly is probably among the worst to work for, I believe its because the marketing department could sell poo as chocolate. One guide that I find fairly accurate is the less said about an Airline on this website, the better it is, you always get some guys that want to put you off. In the case of Emirates people are obviously fatigued and operating in a forever deteriorating environment.
My advice is to look at all the Asian and Middle east options before you choose.
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New joiners
Guys it seems we will have some relief with our rosters......
it seems that 300 new joiners from the subcontinent are ready......
They only need to check if the logbooks are real or not......
it seems that 300 new joiners from the subcontinent are ready......
They only need to check if the logbooks are real or not......
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I haven't got it figured out. That's why I am on here. The only thing I have figured out in my relatively short time in this career is that no one has it figured out. Name any airline in the world and you could find a group of pilots who would tell you not to come near it. Is there anywhere that could be considered the perfect airline - I'm not so sure any more. I have friends in airlines that I would think were great and they too are desperate to get out.
I am here trying to put my view point across of what I believe I see sitting on this side of the fence. I am trying to establish all the facts and that is why I am looking at great detail as to what many on the inside are saying. However what I will say is that here in Blighty things are also expensive, with little pay, no time off, max hours and management that don't care.
Is it therefore not just a case of finding somewhere that ticks more of the boxes rather than all of the boxes?
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flyingpig1987,
Which airlines are you referring to? Since you're from Europe, I can't imagine working for one of the legacy Airlines could be such a bad gig i.e British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Swiss etc. Working for them compared to this region is night and day apart. That I'm willing to bet a big sum on.
Is there anywhere that could be considered the perfect airline - I'm not so sure any more. I have friends in airlines that I would think were great and they too are desperate to get out.