EK pilots going to Virgin America
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Too many personal factors for a blanket response.
In my case age & kids.
I'm just on the back side of that curve & wife, kids thriving.
Also work gripes don't translate into life gripes for those who have their priorities straight.
The ones who let it get to them on days off - "AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!"
f.
In my case age & kids.
I'm just on the back side of that curve & wife, kids thriving.
Also work gripes don't translate into life gripes for those who have their priorities straight.
The ones who let it get to them on days off - "AVOID, AVOID, AVOID!"
f.
Last edited by fliion; 15th Dec 2014 at 04:25.
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Fatbus a lot of American pilots are stuck here. As been mentioned before a lot of the Americans have issues that prevent them from going home, much to their dismay.
DUIs, Court Orders, No College Degrees, Lack of Child payments but the big one being talent will keep some Americans in the sand. The vast majority of Americans are looking to leave though as they should be looking. AA has over 200 applications from EK pilots. Some EK pilots have even left for Jet Blue and Spirit and I'm sure everyone has seen the Virgin thread.
The 92 hours a month is the deal breaker for most. This will kill most of us and is unstainable. Even the FOs are starting to fly that much as so many pilots are leaving Emirates.
DUIs, Court Orders, No College Degrees, Lack of Child payments but the big one being talent will keep some Americans in the sand. The vast majority of Americans are looking to leave though as they should be looking. AA has over 200 applications from EK pilots. Some EK pilots have even left for Jet Blue and Spirit and I'm sure everyone has seen the Virgin thread.
The 92 hours a month is the deal breaker for most. This will kill most of us and is unstainable. Even the FOs are starting to fly that much as so many pilots are leaving Emirates.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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gl69,
I know many Americans at EK and none of them have prior DUI's or happen to be hiding from court orders. Not sure what you mean by "but the big one being talent will keep some Americans in the sand?" Are you implying that the Americans at EK would not make the grade at a DAL or AA interview? I think it's quite obvious that the EK interview process was more rigorous than the typical US airline interview. Many have left recently and didn't seem to have a problem getting hired.
Moving your family and giving up decent pay to start over at the bottom of a list in a precarious industry is not an easy decision. I do agree that the rosters and hours are unsustainable. Maybe some are waiting around in hope that EK will change in order to prevent a future exodus. The next few years will be interesting.
I know many Americans at EK and none of them have prior DUI's or happen to be hiding from court orders. Not sure what you mean by "but the big one being talent will keep some Americans in the sand?" Are you implying that the Americans at EK would not make the grade at a DAL or AA interview? I think it's quite obvious that the EK interview process was more rigorous than the typical US airline interview. Many have left recently and didn't seem to have a problem getting hired.
Moving your family and giving up decent pay to start over at the bottom of a list in a precarious industry is not an easy decision. I do agree that the rosters and hours are unsustainable. Maybe some are waiting around in hope that EK will change in order to prevent a future exodus. The next few years will be interesting.
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As long as EK has the European wonder kids beating down the doors to get in, they have no reason to change any policies or improve T&C's.
Look at it this way... Indians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans all want to come to Dubai and work here. They get treated like crap, but hey... beats staying home, right? Now look at European pilots... going into massive debt for line training and the big prize being coming to fly for one of the big 3 Middle East carriers...
Question is... what is the incentive for EK to change T&C's for the better?
Look at it this way... Indians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans all want to come to Dubai and work here. They get treated like crap, but hey... beats staying home, right? Now look at European pilots... going into massive debt for line training and the big prize being coming to fly for one of the big 3 Middle East carriers...
Question is... what is the incentive for EK to change T&C's for the better?
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Well said Be careful ......
The Ryan air cancer is now alive and well at EK.
I flew with a previous Ryan air FO recently who was bi\ching about not being offered left seat DEC hereafter nine years of Ryan air time.
The funny thing is that he felt the system was unfair as someone junior to him at Ryan air entered as a DEC after he was hired.
Thanks Ryanair, do you guys also use KY jelly on your hair? (Uniform standards)
The Ryan air cancer is now alive and well at EK.
I flew with a previous Ryan air FO recently who was bi\ching about not being offered left seat DEC hereafter nine years of Ryan air time.
The funny thing is that he felt the system was unfair as someone junior to him at Ryan air entered as a DEC after he was hired.
Thanks Ryanair, do you guys also use KY jelly on your hair? (Uniform standards)
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Laker some of the U.S. pilots have tried and failed to get hired back home. One guy has even failed the interviews at each of the Big 3 and others can't get an interview.
UAL needs 13,000 pilots over the next 15 years and they "only" received 11,700 applications. As anyone can see everyone that applied is going to get hired eventually. Will it be Emirates pilots? If I was in HR at any of those airlines I would want to hire EK pilots just to cost Emirates some money but if the pilots don't have college degrees or have a DUI (at least 3 EK pilots have that) they can forget about getting hired in the first part of the hiring boom. As I said anyone with a pulse and a pilots license is going to get hired eventually.
The Ryanair syndrome is alive and well in the sand which is regrettable. It is only going to get worse here and the sooner you get your seniority number back home the better of you and your health will be.
UAL needs 13,000 pilots over the next 15 years and they "only" received 11,700 applications. As anyone can see everyone that applied is going to get hired eventually. Will it be Emirates pilots? If I was in HR at any of those airlines I would want to hire EK pilots just to cost Emirates some money but if the pilots don't have college degrees or have a DUI (at least 3 EK pilots have that) they can forget about getting hired in the first part of the hiring boom. As I said anyone with a pulse and a pilots license is going to get hired eventually.
The Ryanair syndrome is alive and well in the sand which is regrettable. It is only going to get worse here and the sooner you get your seniority number back home the better of you and your health will be.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Actually make it three things:
1) Being home is being "home". There's a million things about this, but at the end you're home. That's worth some money to a lot of people. Not to put a too fine'a point on this; Florida is a million miles from Dubai... Just at the last annual leave going to the movies in Boca with Valet service, before movie dinner with cocktails and at the place service of food including a glass of wine/beer... Priceless.
And not having to fight certain nationalities over their preferred use of cell phones. Even more.
2) Getting in at the majors with seniority protections is just that. Being protected. Warts and all, I realise, but still. Just because you did a missed approach that management didn't like is not a fireable offence. Period.
Peace of mind, in a lot of ways.
3) But still a lot of guys were getting seriously screwed by the regionals before coming to EK, especially Mesa and Eagle, I can understand their hesitation to get back into the grind of being at the bottom of the seniority list and the wrong people being protected... But then again the right one's were being protected as well!
1) Being home is being "home". There's a million things about this, but at the end you're home. That's worth some money to a lot of people. Not to put a too fine'a point on this; Florida is a million miles from Dubai... Just at the last annual leave going to the movies in Boca with Valet service, before movie dinner with cocktails and at the place service of food including a glass of wine/beer... Priceless.
And not having to fight certain nationalities over their preferred use of cell phones. Even more.2) Getting in at the majors with seniority protections is just that. Being protected. Warts and all, I realise, but still. Just because you did a missed approach that management didn't like is not a fireable offence. Period.
Peace of mind, in a lot of ways.
3) But still a lot of guys were getting seriously screwed by the regionals before coming to EK, especially Mesa and Eagle, I can understand their hesitation to get back into the grind of being at the bottom of the seniority list and the wrong people being protected... But then again the right one's were being protected as well!
Last edited by InnocentBystander; 15th Dec 2014 at 12:27.
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Every single American who leaves EK and goes back to the U.S. talks about this invisible weight that is lifted off their shoulders. They didn't know they had this pressure while they were working in the Middle East but it is a tremendous weight that is gone and they feel so much better for leaving.
That in itself has to be worth more than a little bit of coin.
I think some of the Regional guys think the majors treat their pilots just like the Regionals do. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any Legacy or Major in the world is the pinnacle of the profession. Emirates is most definitely not in that category.
That in itself has to be worth more than a little bit of coin.
I think some of the Regional guys think the majors treat their pilots just like the Regionals do. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any Legacy or Major in the world is the pinnacle of the profession. Emirates is most definitely not in that category.
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Guys left the regionals in the US to come to EK because it was an increase in pay and a better lifestyle at the time or they were furloughed. Most pilots in civilian progression in the US did come through the regionals at one point or another. Unfortunately, when hiring stagnated over the last 10-20 years in the US some got stuck flying RJs for an extended period of time. They were then accused of "lowering the bar".....some chose to vote with their feet came to EK for the promise of better pay and lifestyle. It really has nothing to do with DUI's, records, or child support for nearly all who came from the regionals. Some of us even left the states from dirt bag cargo or 737 operators because of the stagnant hiring arena.
Fast forward to arriving at EK:
As an RJ pilot and even an American pilot at EK you are treated like a second class citizen as if you have no knowledge of aviation or flying. You are looked down on because EK considers you slack and your RT to be horrible and if you were on the RJ, your hours/experience are discriminated against by both fleet management and training just over a few ton difference from flying a 737. They don't tell you that in the road shows....just come with thick skin.
My advice: RUN FROM EK....and don't look back. If you have even a regional job in the US right now, stay and wait it out. EK management is crap, training is crap, and T&C are going to crap. It is not worth coming here anymore.
Fast forward to arriving at EK:
As an RJ pilot and even an American pilot at EK you are treated like a second class citizen as if you have no knowledge of aviation or flying. You are looked down on because EK considers you slack and your RT to be horrible and if you were on the RJ, your hours/experience are discriminated against by both fleet management and training just over a few ton difference from flying a 737. They don't tell you that in the road shows....just come with thick skin.
My advice: RUN FROM EK....and don't look back. If you have even a regional job in the US right now, stay and wait it out. EK management is crap, training is crap, and T&C are going to crap. It is not worth coming here anymore.
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Great post Transit Check. So true!
It is funny we as RJ pilots get ****e on at EK because we came from the "lesser" ranks but the same AH giving us ****e came from the lesser ranks in their home countries as well. Not to many Trainers or line pilots came from their Legacy airlines in their countries.
So what is the difference. At least I was flying a RJ for Industry Standard wages for that type of airplane. Some of these Pompous Arses flew 737 and the like for considerable less than BA, SAS and AF make but still think their ****e does not stink. If that was the case they would have been hired at the good airlines.
It is funny we as RJ pilots get ****e on at EK because we came from the "lesser" ranks but the same AH giving us ****e came from the lesser ranks in their home countries as well. Not to many Trainers or line pilots came from their Legacy airlines in their countries.
So what is the difference. At least I was flying a RJ for Industry Standard wages for that type of airplane. Some of these Pompous Arses flew 737 and the like for considerable less than BA, SAS and AF make but still think their ****e does not stink. If that was the case they would have been hired at the good airlines.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Payscale,
Not at all, just pointing out that every time you do a "training event", you are graded and, if found wanting, cautioned, warned and possibly(and to be fair after a protracted process) dismissed.
Not at all, just pointing out that every time you do a "training event", you are graded and, if found wanting, cautioned, warned and possibly(and to be fair after a protracted process) dismissed.
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Wish I had a green card, a degree and was 20 years younger. I'd be outa this place in a flash! Good luck to the guys who want to go home. Don't feel you have to justify going to any of the plonkers who have to stay in the pit.
Let's face it, nobody likes it, really.
Let's face it, nobody likes it, really.
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Nabkin....if you were of the split tail version, had nice boobs, and put out I might sponsor you.....
....oh wait, I just listed most of the hiring criteria for a US major at the present time.
....oh wait, I just listed most of the hiring criteria for a US major at the present time.