Time to Command 777 EK
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Time to Command 777 EK
I am thinking about joining EK. However I have been hearing rumors that the time for command now on the 777 is approximately 10 years? Is this correct?
Can anyone verify this information?
Thanks.
Can anyone verify this information?
Thanks.
Join Date: May 2011
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Whatever responses you get here, please bear in mind that nobody actually knows, although they may claim to have heard it from the horse's mouth because they know someone that knows someone that knows... I hear estimates from 4 years to 10 years+, all from well informed, reasonable (mostly) people.
The unknown factor is that nobody can truly estimate the rate of attrition, and more importantly, where in the seniority list that attrition takes place. Also, nobody has any idea how world events will affect the airline industry. So take it with a pinch of salt. One thing that I think you can be reasonably sure of is that there won't be many airlines out there where wide body command is any faster than it is at Emirates.
The unknown factor is that nobody can truly estimate the rate of attrition, and more importantly, where in the seniority list that attrition takes place. Also, nobody has any idea how world events will affect the airline industry. So take it with a pinch of salt. One thing that I think you can be reasonably sure of is that there won't be many airlines out there where wide body command is any faster than it is at Emirates.
Last FO upgraded on the 777 joined May 2010. He has around 1600 pilots junior to him on the seniors list, the majority of them are 777 FOs, and there is a group of DECs towards the end of 2012. There are between 40 and 70 commands on the 777 this year, depending upon which day of the week it is.
Half of the planned fleet of 380s will be delivered by the end of this year. So when the Capts and FOs from the 33/4 fleet are included, new joiners on the 380 need people to leave to make room for their command.
It would appear that the quick commands are over.
The Don
Half of the planned fleet of 380s will be delivered by the end of this year. So when the Capts and FOs from the 33/4 fleet are included, new joiners on the 380 need people to leave to make room for their command.
It would appear that the quick commands are over.
The Don
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True---we will never know what happens till it actually happens. So guessing is difficult.
However, the RISK is much higher at EK than many others. Maybe upgrades keep going at 4 years (doubtful in my opinion) and maybe they increase.
This 'risk' is lower at other Gulf airlines and so if a person has a choice EK should no longer be on the top of the list. Your odds are better for a quick upgrade at the other airlines.
However, the RISK is much higher at EK than many others. Maybe upgrades keep going at 4 years (doubtful in my opinion) and maybe they increase.
This 'risk' is lower at other Gulf airlines and so if a person has a choice EK should no longer be on the top of the list. Your odds are better for a quick upgrade at the other airlines.
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The truth is no one can say with any certainty. It depends on so many factors. I do however feel that the 3 to 4 year commands are a thing of the past in Emirates. A realistic timeframe, in my opinion, would be at about 6-8 years. I think we will see some movement within the airline as older guys decide to retire or move on and this will generate some opertunity. The bottom line is that if your motivation for coming to EK is purely for a quick command you may end up being dissapointed.
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The group going through the 380 upgrade right now joined in the last half of 2007 and the first half of 2008. But there are some who joined in 2006 who are still F/Os on the 380. Probably due to an untimely forced transition from the 330 and still not having the hours on type for upgrade.
This is now a very large airline and past growth rates by numbers/ratio will not be sustained, many of the aircraft on order are replacements rather than additional so there is no growth of pilot numbers there. In fact much of the future growth is driven by larger aircraft not more aircraft.
If you are looking for an early command then look elsewhere in the region.
This is now a very large airline and past growth rates by numbers/ratio will not be sustained, many of the aircraft on order are replacements rather than additional so there is no growth of pilot numbers there. In fact much of the future growth is driven by larger aircraft not more aircraft.
If you are looking for an early command then look elsewhere in the region.
a330 to a320 how long i might predict to be at left seat??
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Time to command is naturally going to increase. Having said that EK is hiring some very young pilots like they never did in the past, so even with a 10 year upgrade their will be many captains under 40. Enviable position I'd say.
Or... if these young pilots joined 'another' airline they would be in with a chance of upgrade by 30 years old.
It's the Ryanair effect again. Some 20 year old gets Daddy to either pay for or guarantee a loan for 100,000+. 5 years and 3,000 hours later he/she is knocking on EK/xx/QRs door.
It's the Ryanair effect again. Some 20 year old gets Daddy to either pay for or guarantee a loan for 100,000+. 5 years and 3,000 hours later he/she is knocking on EK/xx/QRs door.
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Not trying to stir the pot, but what is the actual attrition rate at EK?
Most people i fly with are on the way out, and its been that way for a while. Latest I heard was the a lot of people are talking, not a lot of people are walking...
I was keeping notes on how much I was creeping up on the sen list but lost them in a move... ...need to use my smartphone instead of old school notes.
Most people i fly with are on the way out, and its been that way for a while. Latest I heard was the a lot of people are talking, not a lot of people are walking...
I was keeping notes on how much I was creeping up on the sen list but lost them in a move... ...need to use my smartphone instead of old school notes.
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A lot of guys say they are planning on leaving and wont when they say they will.
2.5 % seems to be the number being used by HR, they also say that number really has not changed , but 2.5 % of 3700 is diffent than 2.5 % of 1000.They also said they are seeing a slight increase in guys returning to the US but not the number that some pilots are quoting.
3700 pilots at the present and not enough AC on the plan 280 AC(2021) to need @ 6500, 7 years of 2.5 to 3 % leaving or retiring. Unless attrition increares it has to be 8 + years because they just dont know.
Dont come if looking for an early upgrade
2.5 % seems to be the number being used by HR, they also say that number really has not changed , but 2.5 % of 3700 is diffent than 2.5 % of 1000.They also said they are seeing a slight increase in guys returning to the US but not the number that some pilots are quoting.
3700 pilots at the present and not enough AC on the plan 280 AC(2021) to need @ 6500, 7 years of 2.5 to 3 % leaving or retiring. Unless attrition increares it has to be 8 + years because they just dont know.
Dont come if looking for an early upgrade
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and 10 years from now you might say "Boy, by now I would have wide body command and take base with one of these heavy paying Asian carriers".
No one knows the future unfortunately
No one knows the future unfortunately
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Concerning he attrition rate. I finally wrote stuff down. I am middle of the seniority list. Since may 15 I have moved up 15 numbers . It is July 29. There are 3600 pilots or so. May is bonus month, so I think from then till now is the highest attrition, that's a guess though. A few of them where retirement. It works out to be , at least from the middle of the list 3.3% . I can't imagine it's more below me as most of them will be f/o who I am sure are waiting for their command , while the guys at the bottom 25% will be fairly recent arrivals and would make little since to leave so soon.
For future reference the guy at the bottom of the list today, is a July 28 joiner and is number 3658 . Follow him as the year goes by and presto, we get a real attrition rate.
For future reference the guy at the bottom of the list today, is a July 28 joiner and is number 3658 . Follow him as the year goes by and presto, we get a real attrition rate.