Emirates - military threats at various destinations
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Emirates - military threats at various destinations
In the light of recent incidents, I would like to know the background of the decision to stop the Emirates route to Damascus (18 months after the Syrian civil war started). What was the tipping point for the route no longer being considered safe or otherwise viable by the company? Does anyone know?
Quite a few Emirates destinations have been well covered in the news and on pprune recently. The most senior levels of management, although they don't have a crystal ball to see the future, are clearly content that safety is assured at these places (they must be because the buck so obviously stops with them concerning whether a route is operated or not).
Peshawar - Pakistani PIA aircraft shot at while airborne. 1 passenger shot dead. 1 crew member shot and injured. If Pakistani commercial aircraft get shot at in Pakistan, one can only assume that other operators are not invulnerable.
Karachi - two extremely serious attacks with seven people killed in the Emirates/DNATA ground operation there. Emirates aircraft unable to move for many hours with crew and passengers stranded in a darkened aircraft with gun fire nearby. Subsequent flights operated with heavy fuel loads according to another thread on this web site in case of further attacks closing the airport - which if true indicates that Emirates believed further attacks were a possibility.
Kiev - no crew layovers there although flights continue using an unusual heavy crewing arrangement, making a turnaround flight possible. Emirates clearly considers there is a risk to its crew at the moment if it has taken that action. Parts of the country involved in civil war / Crimea annexed by Russia.
Baghdad - rocket attack on the airport earlier this year. ISIS taking territory in Northern Iraq, but has so far been repelled from Bagdad.
Kabul - rocket attack recently by the Taliban. Other attacks last year.
Tripoli - rockets fired at the airport recently. 1 landing aircraft hit by small arms fire, though I think that was some months ago now.
Erbil - many nearby towns in Northern Iraq under ISIS control. Erbil is not, however there have been ISIS attacks on the city and the surrounding area is extremely dangerous.
Bangkok - recent military coup. People shot in the streets while protesting.
I express no opinion here - just looking for information if anyone has any.
Quite a few Emirates destinations have been well covered in the news and on pprune recently. The most senior levels of management, although they don't have a crystal ball to see the future, are clearly content that safety is assured at these places (they must be because the buck so obviously stops with them concerning whether a route is operated or not).
Peshawar - Pakistani PIA aircraft shot at while airborne. 1 passenger shot dead. 1 crew member shot and injured. If Pakistani commercial aircraft get shot at in Pakistan, one can only assume that other operators are not invulnerable.
Karachi - two extremely serious attacks with seven people killed in the Emirates/DNATA ground operation there. Emirates aircraft unable to move for many hours with crew and passengers stranded in a darkened aircraft with gun fire nearby. Subsequent flights operated with heavy fuel loads according to another thread on this web site in case of further attacks closing the airport - which if true indicates that Emirates believed further attacks were a possibility.
Kiev - no crew layovers there although flights continue using an unusual heavy crewing arrangement, making a turnaround flight possible. Emirates clearly considers there is a risk to its crew at the moment if it has taken that action. Parts of the country involved in civil war / Crimea annexed by Russia.
Baghdad - rocket attack on the airport earlier this year. ISIS taking territory in Northern Iraq, but has so far been repelled from Bagdad.
Kabul - rocket attack recently by the Taliban. Other attacks last year.
Tripoli - rockets fired at the airport recently. 1 landing aircraft hit by small arms fire, though I think that was some months ago now.
Erbil - many nearby towns in Northern Iraq under ISIS control. Erbil is not, however there have been ISIS attacks on the city and the surrounding area is extremely dangerous.
Bangkok - recent military coup. People shot in the streets while protesting.
I express no opinion here - just looking for information if anyone has any.
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Emirates cares about two things above all - it's image and it's profit. If, in the pursuit of either of the above, some of its employees are injured or killed then it would not matter to them in the slightest until it impacts on these two factors.
Arabs do not understand the difference between employing someone and owning them - why should they care if a couple of slaves get killed in the line of duty?
Arabs do not understand the difference between employing someone and owning them - why should they care if a couple of slaves get killed in the line of duty?
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Not military issues but threats also from MHERS and Ebola from passengers of those prime infected areas.
Risk vs Reward.......
We bear the risk and they get the reward.
Risk vs Reward.......
We bear the risk and they get the reward.
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Interesting list. Good 1st post afootsoldier. I'm only SLF and I'm not sure Eribil (that is the city and the airport) are yet in the same league as the others you list. But let's see what other PPRuNers think.....
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Peshawar - Pakistani PIA aircraft shot at while airborne. 1 passenger shot dead. 1 crew member shot and injured. If Pakistani commercial aircraft get shot at in Pakistan, one can only assume that other operators are not invulnerable.
Emma
Exactly. As footsoldier wanted to know what is the tipping point to discontinue a route. In this case people inside an aircraft getting killed on approach. Time for risk assessment for many destinations.
Exactly. As footsoldier wanted to know what is the tipping point to discontinue a route. In this case people inside an aircraft getting killed on approach. Time for risk assessment for many destinations.
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Where is the line drawn?
BKK has been mentioned, I don't think there has ever, in the various coups in Thailand, been any concern for the safety of civilian aircraft and occupants, although delays have occurred.
JNB / LOS : Images of aircraft stood on bricks come to mind. Crews not allowed out of hotels unless in large groups and/or escorted. These are highly lucrative routes (except for SAA who could lose money on any route even with no competition), but will the airlines suspend them? No.
BKK has been mentioned, I don't think there has ever, in the various coups in Thailand, been any concern for the safety of civilian aircraft and occupants, although delays have occurred.
JNB / LOS : Images of aircraft stood on bricks come to mind. Crews not allowed out of hotels unless in large groups and/or escorted. These are highly lucrative routes (except for SAA who could lose money on any route even with no competition), but will the airlines suspend them? No.
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JNB / LOS : Images of aircraft stood on bricks come to mind. Crews not allowed out of hotels unless in large groups and/or escorted. These are highly lucrative routes (except for SAA who could lose money on any route even with no competition), but will the airlines suspend them? No.
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What's sad about the PEW case is that the PIA pilots with local knowledge don't even turn on their landing lights on approach...that would have been nice to know as EK pilots.
Here is the Captains quote from an interview:
"Chaudhry said he always turns off the plane’s main lights when landing in Peshawar, a city of 3.5 million people that has been a main battleground in an insurgency that has killed 50,000 people in Pakistan since 2001. The bullets came while the plane was 1,000 feet (300 meters) off the ground, he said.
“Only the lights in the cabin and navigation lights were on, which gave the attackers a fair idea where the plane was,” he said. “We would’ve been sitting ducks if all the main lights of the plane were on.”
The reason EK pulled out of PEW is probably due insurance company's conditions.
I would like to think it had something to do with our welfare...but in light (excuse pun) of the fact that our threat of attack would be mitigated with the advice of not using landing lights...we all know that if there was real concern and proper diligent auditing done on safety measure s for PEW ...then we would have had this info...which of course we did not....too busy working on handbags.
f.
Here is the Captains quote from an interview:
"Chaudhry said he always turns off the plane’s main lights when landing in Peshawar, a city of 3.5 million people that has been a main battleground in an insurgency that has killed 50,000 people in Pakistan since 2001. The bullets came while the plane was 1,000 feet (300 meters) off the ground, he said.
“Only the lights in the cabin and navigation lights were on, which gave the attackers a fair idea where the plane was,” he said. “We would’ve been sitting ducks if all the main lights of the plane were on.”
The reason EK pulled out of PEW is probably due insurance company's conditions.
I would like to think it had something to do with our welfare...but in light (excuse pun) of the fact that our threat of attack would be mitigated with the advice of not using landing lights...we all know that if there was real concern and proper diligent auditing done on safety measure s for PEW ...then we would have had this info...which of course we did not....too busy working on handbags.
f.
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If you look at a map of the world's trouble spots it's a lot like our route network, lol!!
Hey look if Emirates stops going to destinations considered safe by the CIA World Factbook or whatever source you like, we'll have about three destinations left. Just how it is.
I've been here a long time and the way I look at it is we're not on anyone's takeout list, Dubai has long been a place where all the bad guys shelter money (especially since the Arab Spring began) and I don't think we, as an airline, are a particular target for anyone. That's not to say we might not find ourselves close to trouble, like the Karachi flight recently, but generally speaking I feel safe.....well safe from terrorism....not safe from ATC or the environments we sometimes find ourselves in but that's another story.
Hey look if Emirates stops going to destinations considered safe by the CIA World Factbook or whatever source you like, we'll have about three destinations left. Just how it is.
I've been here a long time and the way I look at it is we're not on anyone's takeout list, Dubai has long been a place where all the bad guys shelter money (especially since the Arab Spring began) and I don't think we, as an airline, are a particular target for anyone. That's not to say we might not find ourselves close to trouble, like the Karachi flight recently, but generally speaking I feel safe.....well safe from terrorism....not safe from ATC or the environments we sometimes find ourselves in but that's another story.
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Didn't Syria (including overflight) finally become out of bounds after someone's crossword was interrupted by a SAM going past the window
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I just hope all of you in the Middle East have read what went on after things went sideways in Lebanon, when many MEA pilots went to get "out of Dodge" they found that not only were their bank accounts gone, but so was the bank, in spite of this some brave souls kept operating, but with the loss of some of their fellow employees. If this can happen to what was in my humble opinion, the best airline in the world to work for, in a beautiful country, then it behoves your generation to take all the precautions you can to ensure both your future longevity, and financial security, no ME regime or government is immune to the present shambles, I'm not an alarmist by the way, just bin there, done that, good luck to you all!
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Yes EB, we're not on anyone's " take-out " list, but having been shot at many times in my career, I trust these f*^<kwits doing the shooting as much as the housing and HR departments, so don't feel too secure!!
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Helen - see my answer from other thread.
JAARule,
Fair comment in June...however sunrise in December is at 7:20 in PEW, we land at 0700 and many times earlier (turbo wave) during the dark during winter months...been there, done that.
f.
JAARule,
Fair comment in June...however sunrise in December is at 7:20 in PEW, we land at 0700 and many times earlier (turbo wave) during the dark during winter months...been there, done that.
f.
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ExpatBrat--we are a target for EXACTLY that reason! It is not AQ etc that harbour their money in the UAE but the governments and regimes they despise.
What better target than the airline that runs from the modern day 'Sodem and Gomaorah"!
What better target than the airline that runs from the modern day 'Sodem and Gomaorah"!