Middle East or stay at home ?
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It is very much a personal decision as to whether it is worth it or not and if it will be a location that you will be happy living in. There is no such thing as the standard ex-pat and with that, there are also greatly differing financial situations amongst us all.
It is to some extent rather pointless trying to extract any opinion on here, as the views expressed differ significantly.
Some love living here and some hate it and there is everyone else somewhere in between. I have no regrets coming here and enjoy living here, however whats suits me will be someone else's nightmare.
It is to some extent rather pointless trying to extract any opinion on here, as the views expressed differ significantly.
Some love living here and some hate it and there is everyone else somewhere in between. I have no regrets coming here and enjoy living here, however whats suits me will be someone else's nightmare.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Fong..you spent so much time on this post that it would seem you are trying to convince yourself more than others.
Most of the "positive" types are merely self-justifying because - especially if they have a family - they have no choice. They're trapped, and they know it, and EK knows it. So to cope they go to their happy place. If you catch them in their more honest moments, the vast majority I've spoke to admit they'd rather be somewhere else "but, y'know, the wife and kids...".
I certainly wouldn't join if I had a family. That FO wage won't go far and you'll be on it for a long time now. If you're single and unemployed, maybe. But even then you better have a massive tolerance for stupidity.
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nolimitholdem
That is, without doubt, the most pathetic and ignorant post I've read in a long time.
Why oh why do all the moaners feel it necessary to imply that the positive posts are to self justify being here. Really? Ever thought that it's to balance the negative vitriol that's posted from those venting the frustration, anger and negativity felt by the unhappy minority. What amazes me is that some of these posters go back years yet still they stay. Surely that can't be blamed on the wife and kids.
Or is it the reality that yes, indeed we are trapped. Trapped by the fact that the salary and package is still better than most could hope to achieve elsewhere and whilst there is much to be pissed off about, the knowledge that the same **** is going on everywhere else makes the decision to go so much harder. Show me an Airline that can offer a relatively safe environment to raise a family, good education and health care, high standard of living and a salary after 10 years of $230,000 tax free. That's why around 80% of those here are content and never read, let alone post on PPRune.
I just love how the intensity of threats to leave and how bad is EK always increases near pay review time. Do some of you really think they'll base their decision on these rants?
Harry
That is, without doubt, the most pathetic and ignorant post I've read in a long time.
Why oh why do all the moaners feel it necessary to imply that the positive posts are to self justify being here. Really? Ever thought that it's to balance the negative vitriol that's posted from those venting the frustration, anger and negativity felt by the unhappy minority. What amazes me is that some of these posters go back years yet still they stay. Surely that can't be blamed on the wife and kids.
Or is it the reality that yes, indeed we are trapped. Trapped by the fact that the salary and package is still better than most could hope to achieve elsewhere and whilst there is much to be pissed off about, the knowledge that the same **** is going on everywhere else makes the decision to go so much harder. Show me an Airline that can offer a relatively safe environment to raise a family, good education and health care, high standard of living and a salary after 10 years of $230,000 tax free. That's why around 80% of those here are content and never read, let alone post on PPRune.
I just love how the intensity of threats to leave and how bad is EK always increases near pay review time. Do some of you really think they'll base their decision on these rants?
Harry
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Sandpit jobs
If I came out, are the girls players. A sherry or two does the trick in UK legacy, only if accompanied by cashew nuts and a bowl of olives. Oh...and a cigar afterwards. Same for the last 40 yrs. Woof. Koi Carpus
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ahhh. Harry the Cod. One of the foremost defenders/rationalizers. Dependably predictable.
Except - where is the moaning? I pretty matter-of-factly stated my observations of interactions with former colleagues. Simply that once you clamp on those golden handcuffs, you don't really have much choice but to believe and proclaim it's a great deal. (Or become an alcoholic). The missus and kiddies pretty much guarantee that.
Sorry if that seems like negative vitriol to you, but it would seem that's something you're a bit familiar with yourself.
Perhaps you could instead refute my comments about the finances of joining now as a longterm FO with a family. Instead of your usual tired "hey it's working for me" schtick. It isn't the company you joined 10 years ago with the opportunities you availed yourself of 10 years ago. You've convinced yourself the financial benefits for yourself were/are worth it. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. I won't even disparage it as "pathetic and ignorant", mostly because doing so might imply I give a sh$t what you think.
Perhaps the suspicion of self-justification comes from the long, earnest posts extolling the virtues of the place and the job. Do contented people really have this need? Perhaps the comments that aren't quite so glowing are to provide balance to the powerful forces and massive budgets of the Dubai/EK PR machines. A touch of reality in a very phoney place.
If you think the unhappy are in the minority, you've only proven my point about insulating yourself from reality. Do not mistake employee retention rates with employee contentment. More people stay due to circumstance than choice, which was why the advice to stay away if you aren't inclined to shackle yourself down for a decade or more.
Except - where is the moaning? I pretty matter-of-factly stated my observations of interactions with former colleagues. Simply that once you clamp on those golden handcuffs, you don't really have much choice but to believe and proclaim it's a great deal. (Or become an alcoholic). The missus and kiddies pretty much guarantee that.
Sorry if that seems like negative vitriol to you, but it would seem that's something you're a bit familiar with yourself.
Perhaps you could instead refute my comments about the finances of joining now as a longterm FO with a family. Instead of your usual tired "hey it's working for me" schtick. It isn't the company you joined 10 years ago with the opportunities you availed yourself of 10 years ago. You've convinced yourself the financial benefits for yourself were/are worth it. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. I won't even disparage it as "pathetic and ignorant", mostly because doing so might imply I give a sh$t what you think.
Perhaps the suspicion of self-justification comes from the long, earnest posts extolling the virtues of the place and the job. Do contented people really have this need? Perhaps the comments that aren't quite so glowing are to provide balance to the powerful forces and massive budgets of the Dubai/EK PR machines. A touch of reality in a very phoney place.
If you think the unhappy are in the minority, you've only proven my point about insulating yourself from reality. Do not mistake employee retention rates with employee contentment. More people stay due to circumstance than choice, which was why the advice to stay away if you aren't inclined to shackle yourself down for a decade or more.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Harry no way in he11 is 80% of the pilots happy at EK. I would say 80% are Unhappy.
With stagnant wages, theft of the Bonus and rampant inflation it is not a place for most pilots. Factor in DECs 7-9 years for command and a bunch of other items the biggest being the attitude of the management and you can see why pilots are not only leaving in droves but not applying either.
It is obvious you left a crap airline in the UK, probably a narrow body operation. Now you are comparing EK to that? That is hardly fair
After all the marketplace is dictating and showing us what really matters. How many wide body pilots are joining EK? How many pilots are leaving EK to go to other better operations? You don't see any LH, AF, or DL pilots beating down the doors to join emirates do you. Just narrow body LCCs and we all know what they are paid and how they are treated.
Heard a rumour that the Queen and Country is looking into taxing UK ex-pats. That will change most Brits attitudes on how great Dubai is.
With stagnant wages, theft of the Bonus and rampant inflation it is not a place for most pilots. Factor in DECs 7-9 years for command and a bunch of other items the biggest being the attitude of the management and you can see why pilots are not only leaving in droves but not applying either.
It is obvious you left a crap airline in the UK, probably a narrow body operation. Now you are comparing EK to that? That is hardly fair
After all the marketplace is dictating and showing us what really matters. How many wide body pilots are joining EK? How many pilots are leaving EK to go to other better operations? You don't see any LH, AF, or DL pilots beating down the doors to join emirates do you. Just narrow body LCCs and we all know what they are paid and how they are treated.
Heard a rumour that the Queen and Country is looking into taxing UK ex-pats. That will change most Brits attitudes on how great Dubai is.
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Maybe it is all the bonds EK imposes on its pilots. I know we all should know before we sign on but they are still a steep hill to get out of and shouldn't be there in the first place.
Maybe it is the steep cost of moving to and from Dubai. Maybe it is the high cost of getting your home set up.
After all that a pilot feels like they have to stay and justify all the money they spent and yes "trapped" enters the lexicon.
Most pilots can't go anywhere else until they get PIC time and with upgrades taking 5 years and soon to be 7-9 years it is going to be a long time in the sand.
Maybe it is the steep cost of moving to and from Dubai. Maybe it is the high cost of getting your home set up.
After all that a pilot feels like they have to stay and justify all the money they spent and yes "trapped" enters the lexicon.
Most pilots can't go anywhere else until they get PIC time and with upgrades taking 5 years and soon to be 7-9 years it is going to be a long time in the sand.
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this I suspect is what Cerbus is talking about...
The guidance on the HMRC website is very comprehensive, and it's also refreshingly unambiguous, the devil however is also in the detail, but there is AS EVER lots of wiggle room 
Ties that bind the new statutory residence test
20th March 2013
A victory for HMRC which brought into the UK tax net the worldwide assets of a Seychelle-based billionaire has led to the creation of a robust new test of residence for taxpayers. Where do you fit in?
Ties that bind the new statutory residence test
A victory for HMRC which brought into the UK tax net the worldwide assets of a Seychelle-based billionaire has led to the creation of a robust new test of residence for taxpayers.
The non-resident status of Robert Gaines-Cooper was successfully challenged at judicial review and in the House of Lords by HMRC, against its own guidelines, with the finding that he was indeed a UK resident.
The new test considers the amount of time you spend in the UK again your ties in the country, defined as:
UK residence being treated as UK resident in any one of the three tax years preceding the year in question;
Family having a husband, wife or civil partner who is resident in the UK and they are not separated. That also applies if that person lives with a spouse or civil partner who is a UK resident, or has a child under 18 who is resident in the UK (and he or she sees the child in the UK for more than 61 days).
Accommodation accommodation which is available to them for a continuous period of at least 91 days during the tax year and which the individual uses for at least one night during the tax year;
Work doing more than three hours work in the UK for at least 40 days in the tax year ;
Time in UK spending more than 90 days in the UK in either or both of the previous two tax years.
Country tie spending more days in the UK than any other country during the tax year.
The number of days spent in the UK is a critical part of the test, and we have outlined below how HMRC will assess residence in line with ties (it is important to note that there are distinct rules for those who take up full time work abroad):
Days in the UK - Resident here ?
Fewer than 15 - Not resident in the UK
16 to 45 - Resident here if you have 4 or more ties
46 to 90 - Resident here if you have 3 or more ties
91 to 120 - Resident here if you have 2 or more ties
120 to 182 - Resident here if you have 1 or more ties
Over 183 - Automatically UK resident
Its important to note this is only a very brief summary of the key rules, and detailed review for individual cases should be considered before any action is taken. It is expected that this test will give certainty for around 90% of taxpayers for whom residence is an issue.
20th March 2013
A victory for HMRC which brought into the UK tax net the worldwide assets of a Seychelle-based billionaire has led to the creation of a robust new test of residence for taxpayers. Where do you fit in?
Ties that bind the new statutory residence test
A victory for HMRC which brought into the UK tax net the worldwide assets of a Seychelle-based billionaire has led to the creation of a robust new test of residence for taxpayers.
The non-resident status of Robert Gaines-Cooper was successfully challenged at judicial review and in the House of Lords by HMRC, against its own guidelines, with the finding that he was indeed a UK resident.
The new test considers the amount of time you spend in the UK again your ties in the country, defined as:
UK residence being treated as UK resident in any one of the three tax years preceding the year in question;
Family having a husband, wife or civil partner who is resident in the UK and they are not separated. That also applies if that person lives with a spouse or civil partner who is a UK resident, or has a child under 18 who is resident in the UK (and he or she sees the child in the UK for more than 61 days).
Accommodation accommodation which is available to them for a continuous period of at least 91 days during the tax year and which the individual uses for at least one night during the tax year;
Work doing more than three hours work in the UK for at least 40 days in the tax year ;
Time in UK spending more than 90 days in the UK in either or both of the previous two tax years.
Country tie spending more days in the UK than any other country during the tax year.
The number of days spent in the UK is a critical part of the test, and we have outlined below how HMRC will assess residence in line with ties (it is important to note that there are distinct rules for those who take up full time work abroad):
Days in the UK - Resident here ?
Fewer than 15 - Not resident in the UK
16 to 45 - Resident here if you have 4 or more ties
46 to 90 - Resident here if you have 3 or more ties
91 to 120 - Resident here if you have 2 or more ties
120 to 182 - Resident here if you have 1 or more ties
Over 183 - Automatically UK resident
Its important to note this is only a very brief summary of the key rules, and detailed review for individual cases should be considered before any action is taken. It is expected that this test will give certainty for around 90% of taxpayers for whom residence is an issue.
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Tourette's Syndrome kicking-in big time !
Were I to start getting taxed by HM Government, i.e. whilst I'm living & working in this godforsaken sandpit, I would instead find a suitable 'foreign' domicile and then tell HM Gov to go and poke their 'UK citizenship' & Passport up their proverbial; wherein it's no longer worth the highly-taxed paper it's printed upon (imho) !!
Ps. Aside from returning to the UK for 3 days last year (i.e. to attend the funeral of a +3 decades friend), I haven't been back to the UK for over 5 years... and I have zero intention of ever doing so again, wherein (imho) it's a highly taxed, badly run, depressing, spent, has been of a place !
Ps. Aside from returning to the UK for 3 days last year (i.e. to attend the funeral of a +3 decades friend), I haven't been back to the UK for over 5 years... and I have zero intention of ever doing so again, wherein (imho) it's a highly taxed, badly run, depressing, spent, has been of a place !
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How practical would it be to take your days off once or twice a month outside of DXB but within a few flight hours, e.g Cyprus, as I have friends over there. I see EK have daily direct flights to LCA. What are the restrictions on leaving sandpit on days off but not on AL (assuming a firm ticket to get back)...
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(it is important to note that there are distinct rules for those who take up full time work abroad):
Everything else in the cut and paste does not apply as long as you comply with the 'distinct rules', by that I mean you should not have to undergo a statutory residency test if you take up full time work abroad and stick to the 'distinct rules'.
It also helps to have filled out the correct paperwork on leaving (P85?). Imvho as a fulltime employee living abroad.
Everything else in the cut and paste does not apply as long as you comply with the 'distinct rules', by that I mean you should not have to undergo a statutory residency test if you take up full time work abroad and stick to the 'distinct rules'.
It also helps to have filled out the correct paperwork on leaving (P85?). Imvho as a fulltime employee living abroad.
Last edited by Enecosse; 6th Mar 2014 at 06:19. Reason: possible ambiguity
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green tea
Stay at home captains being being rung up because cabin crew reporting cockpit for asking for some honey in there green tea. You cannot walk around in uniform with a coffee in you hand in uniform.
The place has lost the plot
The place has lost the plot
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With latest austerity cuts there is talk of adapting something of the American IRS tax program for ex pats with a British passport but that is at least a year away if it happens at all.
As a disinterested observer it would make sense for H.M govt to look into that program with so many citizens living abroad it would be a huge revenue stream.
The US govt institutes it and only 15% of Americans have passports and much less live abroad.
As a disinterested observer it would make sense for H.M govt to look into that program with so many citizens living abroad it would be a huge revenue stream.
The US govt institutes it and only 15% of Americans have passports and much less live abroad.
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What are people doing to get themselves reported by cabin crew? If these minority few displayed some basic manners and professionalism, they may get the mutual respect. You reap what you sew in this job. Never is that statement so true when dealing with cabin crew.
10 years plus and a clean sheet must be down to more than just luck, surely? Or perhaps it's the fact I don't drink green tea!
10 years plus and a clean sheet must be down to more than just luck, surely? Or perhaps it's the fact I don't drink green tea!
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Engineer looking to move to Doha
Fong thanks for your input.
I don't post here very often as I find it a very negative environment.
Due to QF redundancy soon, I have applied to work as a maintenance engineer with Qatar.
I hope with a similar positive attitude to opportunities as yourself I will have a great adventure and give my young children a great learning experience.
Oh and pay my mortgage off a bit earlier see the world etc.
I don't post here very often as I find it a very negative environment.
Due to QF redundancy soon, I have applied to work as a maintenance engineer with Qatar.
I hope with a similar positive attitude to opportunities as yourself I will have a great adventure and give my young children a great learning experience.
Oh and pay my mortgage off a bit earlier see the world etc.
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99% of the discussion on this thread so far has revolved around EK.
For people from outside the sandpit it's worth reiterating that there is more to the Gulf than EK, there are very large quality of life differences between the Gulf major airlines, and that EK / DXB is generally considered the "best" of the sandpit options.
QR has a whole different set of issues and is widely considered the worst employer, for reasons that will become clear if you read up on some of those threads. The "unmentionable one" you'll have to do your own research on
tl:dr - don't jump into a contract with one of the other airlines because a bunch of EK guys sold you on the idea.
For people from outside the sandpit it's worth reiterating that there is more to the Gulf than EK, there are very large quality of life differences between the Gulf major airlines, and that EK / DXB is generally considered the "best" of the sandpit options.
QR has a whole different set of issues and is widely considered the worst employer, for reasons that will become clear if you read up on some of those threads. The "unmentionable one" you'll have to do your own research on
tl:dr - don't jump into a contract with one of the other airlines because a bunch of EK guys sold you on the idea.
