DXB in Fog
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DXB in Fog
Don't work for EK or fly out of DXB much, so excuse me if this is a stupid question, but why did DXB have to be single runway operations this morning during the fog? Is this normal during Low vis?
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Amongst other reasons, it's because only R12L / R30R is provided for approaches below CAT 1 minima, and that the runways are too close to one another to allow for parallel runway operations (regardless of the approach category), and issues with keeping the ILS's protected areas clear from interference caused by aircraft crossing runways and / or waiting for departure, etc.
short flights long nights
It's a mess, huge delays, 652 MLE CMB cancelled after an 7 hour delay. Bring on single runway ops.
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Today DNATA stood for the following:
Decisions
Normally
Achieve
Total
Anxiousness
Whoever was on 131.6 today needs to be taken out and shot - no effort to give crew any vague idea of when a tug would be made available. It's not rocket science and I am sure a rough ballpark would keep most of us happy. This however did bring a smile to my face:
DNATA: "Ah yes captain.... we will send a tug when we are advised from ATC that you are ready."
EK Driver: "For ATC to consider that we are ready, we need a tug."
Decisions
Normally
Achieve
Total
Anxiousness
Whoever was on 131.6 today needs to be taken out and shot - no effort to give crew any vague idea of when a tug would be made available. It's not rocket science and I am sure a rough ballpark would keep most of us happy. This however did bring a smile to my face:
DNATA: "Ah yes captain.... we will send a tug when we are advised from ATC that you are ready."
EK Driver: "For ATC to consider that we are ready, we need a tug."
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Thanks for that, it's what I thought. Ya it was a complete and total **** show. 5 hour delay at the gate and another 50 minutes during taxi.
I don't know what it was like for those requesting push and start to be told you are number 71 please stand-by.
The thing I don't understand is that in this situation why couldn't there be more coordination between ATC and all parties involved to delay boarding and keep passengers in the terminal rather than on the aircraft. DNATA seem least interested of all to coordinate.
I don't know what it was like for those requesting push and start to be told you are number 71 please stand-by.
The thing I don't understand is that in this situation why couldn't there be more coordination between ATC and all parties involved to delay boarding and keep passengers in the terminal rather than on the aircraft. DNATA seem least interested of all to coordinate.
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DNATA = Do Nothing At The Airport.
I've long held the belief that DNATA seemingly operate via some sort of 'script', i.e. that for each departure they have a pre-defined set of instructions wherein each element is commenced in accordance with the number of minutes allocated (no doubt contractually so) to the dispatching of the aircraft.
E.g. if one is doing a 4x sector day and one arrives back in Dubai at the end of sector #2 but are running, say, 10 minutes late... no matter how fast yourself & crew go at it wrt, getting the aircraft ready for its subsequent departure (i.e. you manage to catch-up those 10 minutes), you will inevitably find yourself waiting for passengers for the exact same amount of time that you arrived late on-blocks, and which probably accounts for their almost maniacal desire to know ones 'on-blocks' time, because it's based upon that time when their countdown clock starts ticking.
Basically, if your turn-around is budgeted to take one hour, then DNATA will take precisely that, and (for them at least) thinking outside the box and / or being pro-active (i.e. operating outside of their standard script) is probably not encouraged.
Needless to say, any sort of hiccup in the process, e.g. due to mother nature dropping some fog into the equation, and DNATA's 'script' has no flex within it for any sort of ad-libbing.
Just my $0.02
E.g. if one is doing a 4x sector day and one arrives back in Dubai at the end of sector #2 but are running, say, 10 minutes late... no matter how fast yourself & crew go at it wrt, getting the aircraft ready for its subsequent departure (i.e. you manage to catch-up those 10 minutes), you will inevitably find yourself waiting for passengers for the exact same amount of time that you arrived late on-blocks, and which probably accounts for their almost maniacal desire to know ones 'on-blocks' time, because it's based upon that time when their countdown clock starts ticking.
Basically, if your turn-around is budgeted to take one hour, then DNATA will take precisely that, and (for them at least) thinking outside the box and / or being pro-active (i.e. operating outside of their standard script) is probably not encouraged.
Needless to say, any sort of hiccup in the process, e.g. due to mother nature dropping some fog into the equation, and DNATA's 'script' has no flex within it for any sort of ad-libbing.
Just my $0.02
Last edited by Old King Coal; 22nd Feb 2014 at 16:45.
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Dubai Airport pandemonium
I wonder...if Fog and runway closure could lead to such unprecedented operational disruption..what is the likely scenario folowing an Airport disasater of sort?
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I wonder...if Fog and runway closure could lead to such unprecedented operational disruption..what is the likely scenario folowing an Airport disasater of sort?
Apart from the obvious limitations to the capabilities of the airport fire / rescue services, it can be guaranteed that various rubber-neckers would be out for a look - including many members of the airport staff, particularly those of a certain ethnicity who are permitted access in their personal land cruiser/lexus/merc every day. BOTH runways closed for the duration.
Take note all those that plan the other runway as the alternate!
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Cost of forwarding bags
A real cost is that off forwarding the bags from the delayed flights.
I know of some flights that departed yesterday with anything from 100 to 200 bags missing.
It will take days for EK to forward all the bags to the various out stations and then they will have to pay for those bags to be delivered to someones doorstep.
My reference to yesterday relates to 24 hrs after the fog.
I know of some flights that departed yesterday with anything from 100 to 200 bags missing.
It will take days for EK to forward all the bags to the various out stations and then they will have to pay for those bags to be delivered to someones doorstep.
My reference to yesterday relates to 24 hrs after the fog.
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As a result of this fog event, the key players for traffic into and out of DXB have agreed to a nightly conference call at 11pm to discuss relevant matters and strategies to minimise disruption as much as possible. The involved parties are DXB airports, Major airlines, ATC, MET and the CAAs.
Points of note are stands available, available diversion airports and capacities, ATC capacity, Airline key priority aircraft, Arrival rates and MET forecasts and observations.
The call will happen nightly as above at 11pm and a timeline for future calls established based on threat levels of weather, traffic or other. The night following the event, there was a 45 minute interval throughout the night of calls as the conditions were predicted to be similar. MET in particular were excellent with their predictions and real time advice.
The event did not reoccur but the planning was certainly in place had it been different.
In this region, nothing similar has ever been in place and it will certainly be the first step in a coordinated effort in at least keeping everyone informed as to what to expect and what is actually happening to react accordingly.
Points of note are stands available, available diversion airports and capacities, ATC capacity, Airline key priority aircraft, Arrival rates and MET forecasts and observations.
The call will happen nightly as above at 11pm and a timeline for future calls established based on threat levels of weather, traffic or other. The night following the event, there was a 45 minute interval throughout the night of calls as the conditions were predicted to be similar. MET in particular were excellent with their predictions and real time advice.
The event did not reoccur but the planning was certainly in place had it been different.
In this region, nothing similar has ever been in place and it will certainly be the first step in a coordinated effort in at least keeping everyone informed as to what to expect and what is actually happening to react accordingly.
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It's never going to work, a small A/P trying to emulate a Major Hub.
These situations will occur, whilst they operate only one RWY in LVOPS.
What's needed is DWC with 4 RWYs.
Wait for the cargo traveling by road from DWC to DXB. Emirates road will look like one long freight train.
What's needed is DWC with 4 RWYs.
Wait for the cargo traveling by road from DWC to DXB. Emirates road will look like one long freight train.
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am I missing summit
There is a perfectly good DUBAI airport, a few whatevers south, ( not my idea of an airport).
If a bit of a stretch but this airport has been availabe to cover the other aiport closure, but perhaps I am not seeing the problem clearly. Silly me.
Glf
If a bit of a stretch but this airport has been availabe to cover the other aiport closure, but perhaps I am not seeing the problem clearly. Silly me.
Glf
We knew there was an easy answer. Why hadn't it been done before. All you need is a phone call at 11pm. Smooth sailing awaits all now. No longer will we be told that no airports are accepting diversions. And that approach times are some 90 min in the future.
I wonder if this call comes with a warm cup of coco and ends with "you hang up" "no you hang up".
The Don
I wonder if this call comes with a warm cup of coco and ends with "you hang up" "no you hang up".
The Don
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the key players for traffic into and out of DXB have agreed to a nightly conference call at 11pm to discuss relevant matters and strategies to minimise disruption
.... MET in particular were excellent with their predictions and real time advice (the second night. edit.contr.)
The event did not reoccur but the planning was certainly in place had it been different.
In this region, nothing similar has ever been in place and it will certainly be the first step in a coordinated effort
At least they seem to admit that "before" some leaders have failed miserably.
Now at least i know the meaning of Hello Tomorrow: It means the day after "before".
