Boeings turn to take Emirates money
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it quite silly when I here the Airbus guys/gals referring to the 777 as "agricultural" or the "John Deer of the skies". Yes my aircraft is approaching 19 years of age but comparing the A380 to the 777 is like comparing apples with oranges. If we are going to compare the two aircraft then lets be reasonable:
Firstly the A380 has been around since 2005 as opposed to the 777 which had its first flight in 1994. So 11 years difference.
Secondly, a quick look at the EK CCI pages shows me that the A380 cannot do an RNAV Visual Approach into Dubai and cannot do an RNAV RNP Approach into JFK/DFW. Pretty ironic considering the A380 is supposed to be more technologically advanced than the 777 yet cannot do modern approaches?
Okay, I hear you say "we have a sidestick". Ok, lets look at this one more closely. Yes you have more room to cross your legs, you even have a certain weight restriction on the table which would probably hold most of the 21yo cabin crew but hang on, what about the dual input warnings I see on a weekly basis in the ASR's? Seems to me that most Airbus guys need to intervene on a regular basis! This is something you will rarely if not ever see in a Boeing.
Secondly, wasn't the A330 Air France incident attributed to the pilot pulling full back pressure on the sidestick and the other two pilots had no idea? Again, you would never see that on a Boeing.
Ok, the A380 has the OANS (Onboard Airport Navigation System) Yes this seems to do well when you consider the taxiway infringement in Sydney and the recent Brisbane taxi lights incident. Then we also have the famous MEL incident which I will not go into here.
A380 has autopilot TCAS. Ok that sounds like an improvement in the right direction. I'll give you that one.
BTV....Well considering the company notams on this one, I think I'd prefer to use my brain in judging my runway exit considering my weight and the airfield conditions.
If you take an average of the DOW's and ZFW's of the A380 you will also find out that the A380 can only carry 10 tonnes more payload than a B777-300ER. That doesn't seem much considering the takeoff weight is almost 220 tonnes heavier than a 777
Cross-trained Cabin crew complaining that the A380 is not a nice aircraft to work on
CRC that is probably better suited for the carriage of animals...
Don't get me wrong, I think the A380 is a fantastic aircraft and has literally changed customers expectations of travel overnight. I am however very dubious as to the claims that this is a more modern aircraft. Until you can legitimately paint 1000th aircraft on the side of the whale than I think you should continue appending every radio call with Super, and I might add that it is only a requirement to say "Super" on the initial call. Seems quite silly to hear you guys on delivery and ground frequencies calling "Emirates 203 Super". After all, aren't we really alerting an approach controller of the required wake turbulence separation?
I have actually put my name down to transfer. I may not have the seniority but I am looking for lifestyle and if thats what EK are offering then I will take it. Sure beats the hell out of working in the B777 Training Department. Secondly, a 6 year seat lock will do just fine as the 777 x-series comes on-line around 2021.
Cheers
Firstly the A380 has been around since 2005 as opposed to the 777 which had its first flight in 1994. So 11 years difference.
Secondly, a quick look at the EK CCI pages shows me that the A380 cannot do an RNAV Visual Approach into Dubai and cannot do an RNAV RNP Approach into JFK/DFW. Pretty ironic considering the A380 is supposed to be more technologically advanced than the 777 yet cannot do modern approaches?
Okay, I hear you say "we have a sidestick". Ok, lets look at this one more closely. Yes you have more room to cross your legs, you even have a certain weight restriction on the table which would probably hold most of the 21yo cabin crew but hang on, what about the dual input warnings I see on a weekly basis in the ASR's? Seems to me that most Airbus guys need to intervene on a regular basis! This is something you will rarely if not ever see in a Boeing.
Secondly, wasn't the A330 Air France incident attributed to the pilot pulling full back pressure on the sidestick and the other two pilots had no idea? Again, you would never see that on a Boeing.
Ok, the A380 has the OANS (Onboard Airport Navigation System) Yes this seems to do well when you consider the taxiway infringement in Sydney and the recent Brisbane taxi lights incident. Then we also have the famous MEL incident which I will not go into here.
A380 has autopilot TCAS. Ok that sounds like an improvement in the right direction. I'll give you that one.
BTV....Well considering the company notams on this one, I think I'd prefer to use my brain in judging my runway exit considering my weight and the airfield conditions.
If you take an average of the DOW's and ZFW's of the A380 you will also find out that the A380 can only carry 10 tonnes more payload than a B777-300ER. That doesn't seem much considering the takeoff weight is almost 220 tonnes heavier than a 777
Cross-trained Cabin crew complaining that the A380 is not a nice aircraft to work on
CRC that is probably better suited for the carriage of animals...
Don't get me wrong, I think the A380 is a fantastic aircraft and has literally changed customers expectations of travel overnight. I am however very dubious as to the claims that this is a more modern aircraft. Until you can legitimately paint 1000th aircraft on the side of the whale than I think you should continue appending every radio call with Super, and I might add that it is only a requirement to say "Super" on the initial call. Seems quite silly to hear you guys on delivery and ground frequencies calling "Emirates 203 Super". After all, aren't we really alerting an approach controller of the required wake turbulence separation?
I have actually put my name down to transfer. I may not have the seniority but I am looking for lifestyle and if thats what EK are offering then I will take it. Sure beats the hell out of working in the B777 Training Department. Secondly, a 6 year seat lock will do just fine as the 777 x-series comes on-line around 2021.
Cheers
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North of 0
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just throwing in my two cents for the sake of the argument...
At the end of the day, I could not care less what type I fly so long as I'm as comfortable as I can possibly be in my work environment. The more comfortable, the more I enjoy my job and the more "productive" I am. Since I'm a pilot, my work environment happens to be at the pointy end of a jet.
In my opinion, the things that make a pilot's work environment more comfortable are, but not limited to:
1. Low levels of noise in the FD (I think everyone would agree that more noise equals faster onset of fatigue). It's possible to have a conversation at a normal tone of voice in the 380 FD. The cabin is even quieter than the FD. I certainly feel less tired after a long flight in the 380 than I ever did in the 320/330/340.
2. Room to sit anyway I like and not have to contort my body in order to cross my legs if I feel like sitting so at 42000 feet.
3. A simple, effective fly by wire control device i.e a side-stick instead of a giant lever action control column to move those large control surfaces. I still don't understand what the point of the conventional control column is on the 787 given the fact that it has an impressive FBW control system.
4. a tray table so I can sit and have a meal comfortably.
These are 4 minor points but to me they make time in the cockpit comfortable and relaxed. If I wan't to feel like I'm "flying" something I'll go hire a Pitts Special and tear some loops through the sky.
At the end of the day, I could not care less what type I fly so long as I'm as comfortable as I can possibly be in my work environment. The more comfortable, the more I enjoy my job and the more "productive" I am. Since I'm a pilot, my work environment happens to be at the pointy end of a jet.
In my opinion, the things that make a pilot's work environment more comfortable are, but not limited to:
1. Low levels of noise in the FD (I think everyone would agree that more noise equals faster onset of fatigue). It's possible to have a conversation at a normal tone of voice in the 380 FD. The cabin is even quieter than the FD. I certainly feel less tired after a long flight in the 380 than I ever did in the 320/330/340.
2. Room to sit anyway I like and not have to contort my body in order to cross my legs if I feel like sitting so at 42000 feet.
3. A simple, effective fly by wire control device i.e a side-stick instead of a giant lever action control column to move those large control surfaces. I still don't understand what the point of the conventional control column is on the 787 given the fact that it has an impressive FBW control system.
4. a tray table so I can sit and have a meal comfortably.
These are 4 minor points but to me they make time in the cockpit comfortable and relaxed. If I wan't to feel like I'm "flying" something I'll go hire a Pitts Special and tear some loops through the sky.
Richard you must suffer under a serious blurred cognition syndrome. I am an other one of those transferees who were lucky enough to leave the 777 and get on board of the majestic Super. After 5 years of operating an uncomfortable, loud and primitive plane I finally could go back to a real gentleman's airplane.
And have you ever checked how many 777 drivers at EK put their names down to transfer from John Deere to the high tech Super Bus??? Everyone who is not affraid to fail and qualifies by experience and seniority wishes a transfer to A380. All those who are affraid of not understanding 21century technology must stay on 777 and they try to tell everyone how great Boeing is.
Already 63 John Deree skippers did a conversion. They all volunteered and are happy now. Many more to come. It's a fact. I am very Sorry.
And have you ever checked how many 777 drivers at EK put their names down to transfer from John Deere to the high tech Super Bus??? Everyone who is not affraid to fail and qualifies by experience and seniority wishes a transfer to A380. All those who are affraid of not understanding 21century technology must stay on 777 and they try to tell everyone how great Boeing is.
Already 63 John Deree skippers did a conversion. They all volunteered and are happy now. Many more to come. It's a fact. I am very Sorry.
What does that have to do with the price of eggs!?
I would like to think that someone who flies an A380 can spell and punctuate in an accurate manner. His first posting was only marginally better.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sand pit
Age: 54
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have flown Dc10s, Md-11, b747 and 777. I would love to fly the 380 as well although unlikely. I understand one can have a favorite, and a preference, but to say the 777 is outdated??? On what basis? The 380 is beautiful( on the inside that is....cause it has a face only a mother could love) but the 777 is one of; if not the most successful airplane ever built. As someone already mentioned the payload is comparable at a fraction of the cost.....even Air France seems to have lost the love for their national airplane. Bean counters don't generally look at how many FA's can sit on the table but rather the economics of the airplane and this airplane is still out front.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,831
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bypass ratio
Seems quite silly to hear you guys on delivery and ground frequencies calling "Emirates 203 Super"
And if delivery can bunch up a bunch of 'supers' together it makes a big difference to flow-rate... They like to know!
Originally Posted by Bypass ratio
BTV....Well considering the company notams on this one
Originally Posted by Bypass ratio
This is something you will rarely if not ever see in a Boeing.
Originally Posted by Bypass ratio
Secondly, wasn't the A330 Air France incident attributed to the pilot pulling full back pressure on the sidestick and the other two pilots had no idea? Again, you would never see that on a Boeing.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From Bypass Ratio
"I have actually put my name down to transfer".
Gee thanks Bypass Ratio, glad you are thinking of the A380 FO who has been at EK for 6 years and is still waiting for the command that you have had since year 3.
I am sure that he will be more than happy to help you through the mess you make while you get used to the Fatbus.
"I have actually put my name down to transfer".
Gee thanks Bypass Ratio, glad you are thinking of the A380 FO who has been at EK for 6 years and is still waiting for the command that you have had since year 3.
I am sure that he will be more than happy to help you through the mess you make while you get used to the Fatbus.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SEA
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Sandhound
Mate, the post was not to revive the eternal pissing contest , but to point out your mindless ideological diatribe, let everybody be happy with whatever they fly...and let the market decide who wins, EU taxpayers help or not.
Mate, the post was not to revive the eternal pissing contest , but to point out your mindless ideological diatribe, let everybody be happy with whatever they fly...and let the market decide who wins, EU taxpayers help or not.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UAE
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The market is deciding.
On the B777-A380 transfer numbers, it's reported that 63 transferred. That leaves how many that didn't? Grow up boys, that number was driven by company needs. A number of us elected not to accept the offer (self included) of a transition and it's highly unlikely that those that moved did so because the 'A380 is better than the B777'. Pilots change types within EK for any number of reasons, lifestyle, ego to fly a large 4 holer, destinations that suit them and to hold the type rating that best fits their exit strategy. Conversely, pilot's don't change types for lifestyle, destinations that suit them, and the same type rating proviso. The only difference really is the ego thing and that's not to say it's a bad reason to change. If flying a big 4 holer is your thing, then have no shame.
What fleet transfer is not about is the alleged marvels of a particular type.
On the Super thing, I get the prefix for a call to ground but network control…..?
"Ops, Emirates XXX Super….." keep it tidy boys.
Airbus and Boeing are confident demand for their largest aircraft will improve over time, though both manufacturers concede the market segment for the A380 and the 747-8 Intercontinental is significantly weaker than for other widebody passenger offerings such as the A350, 777 and 787. ATW.
What fleet transfer is not about is the alleged marvels of a particular type.
On the Super thing, I get the prefix for a call to ground but network control…..?
"Ops, Emirates XXX Super….." keep it tidy boys.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I'm sorry Oldaircrew that you feel that way. Unfortunately, on my fleet we have had several DEC's come & go over the years which is something that I have had to embrace. Let's face it, if you leave EK you will most certainly be looking for a position as a DEC, be it China Southern, Korean etc.... As far as I'm concerned, I am a Captain in EK and if the opportunity arises to switch fleets and it suits me then I will take it. Maybe you should've taken the A330 Command like some of your brethren have done. I know they work hard, but they are Captains and soon they will transfer to the A380 with a wealth of good experience.
White Knight, maybe I should use the term Heavy in my call sign to alert Airports like Newcastle that I'm code E compliant. Listen, I get your drift, but some of your colleagues are using the term a little to often. What I said and if you read it correctly, the initial call should include Super. Not subsequent calls on the same frequency. Secondly, the point about the Air France incident I wanted to highlight the fact that because the sidestick is pretty much hidden from view, nobody could see what was happening. Just because an aircraft has more bells and whistles doesn't make it any more safe than before, it introduces a new set of problems. When you guys refer to the 777 as being agricultural, it seems to be a derogatory comment made with reference to the superiority of the A380. Boeing has a very long history of producing aeroplanes and seems to proceed with caution when new technology arrives. After seeing the British Airways & Asiana 777's crash, I can tell you that if I ever have to put one down or be a passenger on an aircraft, I hope it's a 777.
White Knight, maybe I should use the term Heavy in my call sign to alert Airports like Newcastle that I'm code E compliant. Listen, I get your drift, but some of your colleagues are using the term a little to often. What I said and if you read it correctly, the initial call should include Super. Not subsequent calls on the same frequency. Secondly, the point about the Air France incident I wanted to highlight the fact that because the sidestick is pretty much hidden from view, nobody could see what was happening. Just because an aircraft has more bells and whistles doesn't make it any more safe than before, it introduces a new set of problems. When you guys refer to the 777 as being agricultural, it seems to be a derogatory comment made with reference to the superiority of the A380. Boeing has a very long history of producing aeroplanes and seems to proceed with caution when new technology arrives. After seeing the British Airways & Asiana 777's crash, I can tell you that if I ever have to put one down or be a passenger on an aircraft, I hope it's a 777.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Permanent JET LAGGG
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its funny the amount of people who feel like they deserve credit for the airplane they fly. You got hired by a company that put you into whatever AC they needed you in.
Just because its big or small, sidestick or not, doesn't make you a premium aviator.
Get over yourselves.
P.S. I prefer the boeing. Probably because I'm the best pilot… EVER.
Just because its big or small, sidestick or not, doesn't make you a premium aviator.
Get over yourselves.
P.S. I prefer the boeing. Probably because I'm the best pilot… EVER.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems that the "main" fleet is losing its shine a bit and the 380 is taking it's better flying. Some senior 777 pilots are scared of the airbus and some 777 captains that were 330 capt who transferred to the 777 are now wishing they had not done that. Of course there will be those how disagree and will more than likely print there feelings here, most just get on withit and make the best of a bad situation .
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While the mental midgets that are EK pilots debate the merits of A vs B we have to look at the pay difference. There is NONE! The Super pilots are making the same pay as the 777 pilots even though they fly about 155 more paxs. In fact they make the same money as the old A-310 pilots made at Emirates.
So you can argue technology, routes, and quality of life but at the end of the day they are getting the same pay for all those more passengers and problems that come with our 3rd world passenger profile. In addition they have more tech issues and you would think they would get a premium for all of that but NO but at least they get to be called Super.
So you can argue technology, routes, and quality of life but at the end of the day they are getting the same pay for all those more passengers and problems that come with our 3rd world passenger profile. In addition they have more tech issues and you would think they would get a premium for all of that but NO but at least they get to be called Super.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: the ridge where the west commences
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will admit that many of us under-talented people who remain on the Boeing do indeed envy the novelty which appears to be the main feature of A380 operations. I and all my colleagues routinely land at the airport we departed for and most of us seem to be able to find our way to and from the runway at most airports. After landing at our intended destination airport, our airplane let's us apply the brakes as and when we see fit without deciding of it's own volition that it knows better than we do.
There is a lot of lost excitement there to be sure.
There is a lot of lost excitement there to be sure.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Just a little to the left. Little more...
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
