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Milan-JFK assault

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Milan-JFK assault

Old 1st Oct 2013, 17:45
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Milan-JFK assault

Leveling the Playing Field: - YouTube

Last edited by pilotday; 1st Oct 2013 at 18:43.
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 18:48
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What about SQ flying Singapore, Moscow and then New York? I don't hear anybody kicking up a stink about that? What's so special about Dubai, Milan and then New York?
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 22:34
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Don't recall too much, if any, shouting about the Dubai-Hamburg-JFK route 5 years ago either.

So much for "Land of the free"
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 22:47
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Contradicting...

One minute he's saying he wants a fair and level playing field and the next that he wants other airlines to be at a competitive disadvantage?

Last edited by Aubrey.; 1st Oct 2013 at 22:53.
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 23:03
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Milan-JFK traffic rights were originally acquired by SQ.
That was last year. EK then grabbed the slots when SQ failed to use them.
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Old 1st Oct 2013, 23:10
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ALPA News Release

Release #13.49
September 30, 2013

Emirates New Milan–N.Y. Route Threatens U.S. Aviation Jobs
U.S. Government Must Level the Playing Field to Ensure Health of U.S. Airlines, Jobs

WASHINGTON–Emirates Airline’s new route from Milan to New York, slated to begin Tuesday, is a clear first step in long-term strategy by a heavily supported state-owned foreign airline to undercut U.S. airlines and hurt U.S. jobs.

The new route goes head-to-head with long-established U.S. carrier routes between New York and Milan. This is a flight that originated in Dubai and, instead of a direct flight, Emirates is adding a stopover in a popular European destination in order to draw new business. Clearly, this is the beginning of a dangerous trend by state-owned foreign carriers, one that threatens U.S. jobs, U.S. passengers and ultimately the future of the U.S. aviation system, which contributes $1 trillion to our economy each year.

Capt. Lee Moak, president of the Air Line Pilots Association International (ALPA) said of the new route: “Ultimately, this is about saving U.S. jobs. If we are not able to compete fairly, the U.S. airlines industry will disappear. Foreign carriers like Emirates play by different rules. As state-owned and state-supported, they have unlimited checking accounts and do not have to abide by the same tax, security and regulatory policies that U.S. carriers do. We can’t stop the way they do business, but we are asking the U.S. government to make aviation policy decisions that advance the U.S. airline industry – not harm it.”

Today, under the current structure, U.S. airlines face excessive taxes, a burdensome regulatory environment, inadequate and stalled infrastructure funding, and federal policy that permits an unlevel playing field in the global market.

Conversely, Emirates Airline does business tax-free in the United Arab Emirates. It flies new, fuel-efficient aircraft subsidized by U.S. taxpayers, benefits from pro-aviation national policy, and operates at state-of-the-art airports funded by tens of billions of dollars in infrastructure investment by its government.

“Many foreign countries view their airlines’ success as critical to diversifying their national economy in the face of finite natural resources,” added Capt. Moak. “We are asking the U.S. government to show similar tenacity in advancing the U.S. airline industry that ultimately has a positive effect on the country’s economy as a whole.”

U.S. airlines fly approximately half a million passengers a year between New York and Milan. While the prospect of U.S. airlines’ losing international passengers to heavily- state-supported foreign airlines is troubling on its own merits, U.S. domestic passengers and air cargo shippers could also feel the repercussions in the long-term.

“The entire U.S. air transportation system – and the thousands of jobs it supports - could be at risk if the U.S. government does not ensure our airlines a fair opportunity to compete to perform this international flying.” Capt. Moak said. “The entire aviation industry and Americans throughout the country must stand up to ensure the long-term health of our airlines and our aviation jobs.”
one that threatens...... U.S. passengers
Their money, their choice?

The new route goes head-to-head with long-established U.S. carrier routes between New York and Milan.
So forget about Alitalia then? And you won't start any new routes to, for example, the UK, as it'll go head to head with BA/VS?

is a clear first step in long-term strategy
Nope. See previous posts ref Hamburg & SQ.

As state-owned and state-supported, they have unlimited checking accounts
Wrong again.

do not have to abide by the same tax, security and regulatory policies that U.S. carriers do.
The same as every other non-US airline flying to and from the US.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 02:56
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DAL and UCAL have been selling tickets out of Japan for decades now, Fedex and UPS are operating N registered A/C's from bases in Asia and the EU. Or fair skies is only fair as long as only one country gets to do it? I just find all this bitching a bit hypocritical....

Last edited by The Dominican; 2nd Oct 2013 at 02:58.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 06:00
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Like it or not Aviation is now globalized industry. No different than textiles, IT, Automotive, Manufacturing etc etc etc. Before complaining about unfair competition and how ALPA needs support to stop Emirates or other carriers from "taking their jobs" each member should check the "Made In" tag on everything that they own and if it doesn't say "Made In America" ask themselves what they have done to support other American industries that have been globalized.

FYI Captain Delta 26year blah blah blah... nobody cares about your professional dedication. Since we don't have the cover of a collective group I can guarantee that every pilot that works for EK is at least as competent but more than likely far more qualified than you as our route structure is far more demanding and we are only as good as our last flight.

Finally passengers don't care about your job. They care about great service and cheap fares.Time to wake up like a lot of your fellow countrymen who work here.

Helmet on standing by.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 06:33
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I see both sides to this. Pax need choice, but industries need some protections to.
Without some type of protection there will be no airline industry left in the 1st world. Without that any T&Cs in places like EK will quickly decline. The only people that prosper are the office dwellers. The main losers are the crews, engineers etc.
There really is a fine line. Airlines need to compete, grow markets, update products and not rely on government handouts. But they must also be given some way of protecting themselves from the likes of EK, where a lot costs can not be competed with.
The answer is way above my pay grade.

The Don
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 06:33
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You just have to laugh at the idiot presenting this..... A 26 year Delta captain what the hell has that got to do with it? Another self promoting individual and why is he prancing about in his uniform when not at work? I have never understood that.
About time people like him realised the 10's of billions Emirates spend buying Boeing aircraft will inject far more into the American economy than They lose by EK flying a few routes from European hubs.

Last edited by emratty; 2nd Oct 2013 at 06:35. Reason: Spelling
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 07:00
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A bit like that guy from Air Canada a few years ago, carrying on about the same thing, except he was a great ad for EK, saying things like ' look at Emirates product, it's good, we can't compete with that!'
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 08:54
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October 1, 2013
Fellow ALPA Pilots,

Today, Emirates Airline (EK) began B-777 scheduled service between Milan and JFK. This flight is not part of a code share or alliance; this is an Emirates plane flying directly from Italy to the United States in direct competition with U.S. carriers and ALPA members. Unless we quickly and decisively take action now, we can expect to see many more invasions like this by state-supported carriers seeking to undercut our companies and eventually take our routes entirely.

As you’ve heard from me before, the Middle Eastern carriers are expanding at a rate never before seen thanks to their governments’ strategic focus on their industries. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Qatar have all dedicated state resources to facilitating their airlines’ rapid growth. These countries have vertically integrated conglomerates, owning everything from the oil fields and refineries to the airports and airlines. The huge state support that results from this model enables these carriers to dramatically reduce the costs of running their businesses compared to U.S. carriers, giving them a competitive advantage in the marketplace.

But despite this, we have turned them back before. In June, Qatar abandoned plans to fly directly between Athens and JFK because of weak demand, and Emirates dropped out of the Hamburg-JFK market for similar reasons; Delta and United, respectively, are currently flying those routes profitably. However, past success cannot be taken for granted. Collectively, Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar Airways have more than 1,000 airplanes on order and all of them have plans to expand into as many markets as possible. These carriers are aiming for all of our international routes right now and all our domestic routes in the future.

Without a doubt, I know that U.S. airlines are the greatest in the world. Our problem is not our ability to compete, but that our competitors not only get support from their own governments, the U.S. government chips in as well. The Export-Import Bank is still trying to use U.S. taxpayer money to fund widebody aircraft purchases by state-subsidized carriers around the world. The Department of Transportation is currently considering granting a “rent-a-code” agreement that would allow Emirates to fly passengers whose fares are being paid for by the U.S. government. And plans continue to move forward on a CBP preclearance facility in Abu Dhabi–an airport that no U.S. carrier flies to.

These issues are just symptoms of the problem we have in Washington: a government that often neglects, and sometimes even undermines, our airline industry. This week, ALPA released a new video that makes clear the scale of the threat from these heavily state-backed foreign airlines if the U.S. government fails to act.

Members of Congress and the Administration need to know that the people who elect them care about our industry and are willing to fight to keep it strong. If you haven’t participated in our Call to Action against the CBP preclearance facility in Abu Dhabi, please take the time to do so now. And show your support for your career and our industry by supporting ALPA-PAC, our most effective weapon for pilot partisan change in D.C. All of these pieces are connected and we cannot expect victory on the broader agenda without winning these battles.

The MXP-JFK route could be just the beginning of the Emirates’ takeover of our industry or it could be the high tide before we turn them back. I hope I can count on your support.

Sincerely,

Capt. Lee Moak

The union letter that went out addressing the situation, for what it is worth. Cheers.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 09:31
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Ever flown in Y class on an American airline. Let the passangers make the choice.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 11:10
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Without a doubt, I know that U.S. airlines are the greatest in the world.


no comment
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 12:01
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"Without a doubt, I know that U.S. airlines are the greatest in the world"

I've never posted in here because I have nothing to do with the Middle East....but that is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 12:52
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such hypocrites. Delta uses a similar Canadian "import-export" bank to buy those CRJ's at very cheap loans.

I believe Brazil gives a similar deal for those Jungle Jets.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 13:33
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About time people like him realised the 10's of billions Emirates spend buying Boeing aircraft will inject far more into the American economy than They lose by EK flying a few routes from European hubs.
Very well said indeed.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 15:32
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Read post no.7. Why is it I don't hear any referencing to that? Why is what DAL, UAL, FEX, and UPS any different? I'd like to see a response to an EK hub in ATL going to places other than DXB. See it for what it is.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 15:42
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DAL and UAL ( not cargo in this discussion) don't have bases outside a U.S. State, or territory ie Guam.
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Old 2nd Oct 2013, 15:44
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Yeah, they do. DAL flies from Tokyo to places other than the US (ie Philippines)
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