Flydubai to Bangkok and beyond?
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FZ may well get 787's in the future but I think the reality at the moment is its too big a step up from the 737-800.
As someone has already mentioned the best aircraft fit for FZ currently is a 757 so there is more chance of them ordering 737-900ER's (which they already have options for) and will get delivery dates a lot sooner than any 787.
I'm not clever enough to do the sums but the 737-900ER's are being used to replace 757-200's at Delta so I assume they have the legs
As someone has already mentioned the best aircraft fit for FZ currently is a 757 so there is more chance of them ordering 737-900ER's (which they already have options for) and will get delivery dates a lot sooner than any 787.
I'm not clever enough to do the sums but the 737-900ER's are being used to replace 757-200's at Delta so I assume they have the legs
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Legs or not, to be quite honest and not intending any punt against our colleagues at FD, the actual situation at DXB would rather need the 737s and 320s be sent to Sahrjah or Makhtoum.
The whale already slows down the hourly frequency of dep/ldg with the increased separation, so the light twins, with another minute more, are even more anachronistic in the screwed up layout of DXB.
If it is inevitable that FD stays at DXB, every logic would point out to a Makhtoum ops but logic is the big absent in UAE aviation, then a switch to 757/787/330 would be more than welcome.
The whale already slows down the hourly frequency of dep/ldg with the increased separation, so the light twins, with another minute more, are even more anachronistic in the screwed up layout of DXB.
If it is inevitable that FD stays at DXB, every logic would point out to a Makhtoum ops but logic is the big absent in UAE aviation, then a switch to 757/787/330 would be more than welcome.
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From what I heard they have no intention of converting to 739ER's. They said it did not make enough economical sense plus they would have issues with payload/weight/thrust and range. (Just the messenger) It's 757's or A330's me thinks for anything bigger. With them already discounting the 757 I think we have a winner here.
The first business class flight will be early October to Kabul.
The first business class flight will be early October to Kabul.
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Should Flydubai go long haul , I hope that they will be smart enough to follow the seniority list which means that you will have to wait quite a long time before being able to get a seat...
If they don't , then they will loose more pilots...
If they don't , then they will loose more pilots...
Last edited by dubaigong; 1st Aug 2013 at 09:27.
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There is a hudge potential for a medium-long haul low fare airline from Dubai IMHO. Two major problems I can see are the price of new 787/350's and 'interfering' with EK. HHSM will not allow EK to be hurt by a competitor he effectively controls.
But if FDB doesn't do it, someone else will fill the void and all will bypass Dubai. Look at Norwegian with a 787 base in BKK.
On the other side Ukraine International is now operating the 739ER with two aux fuel tanks installed (iso B763), with a 20/159 seating layout, on BPK-BKK, a 4611nm mission. That could be an option to avoid the 787/350 investment and do that as an alternative.
But if FDB doesn't do it, someone else will fill the void and all will bypass Dubai. Look at Norwegian with a 787 base in BKK.
On the other side Ukraine International is now operating the 739ER with two aux fuel tanks installed (iso B763), with a 20/159 seating layout, on BPK-BKK, a 4611nm mission. That could be an option to avoid the 787/350 investment and do that as an alternative.
Anything over about 4 hours on a B737 is torture as a pax. Can't imagine many repeat customers after a 7 hour trip (even if it is dirt cheap) DXB-AMM was enough for me...
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Why can't FlyDubai take EK's older A330s as they are removed from the fleet? FD could use them on tightly-defined routes to complement the EK network. The A330 know-how and infrastructure already exists at DXB and it could be leveraged.
Last edited by Iver; 9th Aug 2013 at 00:50.
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Selling the EK 330s to FlyDubai would be a quick and convenient way for EK to off load the aircraft it is planning to drop anyway. They already have lots of upgrades like CPDLC and brake fans. all they need to do is repaint them. some are already being parked on the E gates so its an easy transition. Interesting rumor.
Last edited by mooseknuckles; 9th Aug 2013 at 01:56.
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It is funny to see how so many people know what Flydubai should do...
I guess they have their own management with their own ideas , so unless you have the power to change their mind or if you work for them all what is said here is not worth a penny...
Let's see what their plans are but all I know is that they don't even have received all the B737-800 they have on order , so I don't expect to see anything like a long haul aircraft for a long time...
I guess they have their own management with their own ideas , so unless you have the power to change their mind or if you work for them all what is said here is not worth a penny...
Let's see what their plans are but all I know is that they don't even have received all the B737-800 they have on order , so I don't expect to see anything like a long haul aircraft for a long time...
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MD11 - I just looked at the website and I didn't see anything specific mentioning October. Perhaps you could give us a hint.
With regard to the general discussion of widebody flying, there will always be a market below the level of service and price provided by EK. And that market is huge in terms of potential passengers. There are more cheap passengers out there who don't want to pay EK prices.
Also, when the A330s depart the EK fleet, the smallest airplane in their fleet will be the A350-900 (or perhaps the 777-200LR?). So, FD could be used to build DXB/DWC feed on certain leisure routes or on routes too thin for the A350. That said, AirAsiaX, Cebu Pacific, Scoot and other LCCs are using A330-type aircraft on longer haul flights. There is a void in the low-cost market for medium and long haul flying that new technology can exploit - that is why Norwegian Longhaul is giving it a try and AirAsiaX, Scoot and others are attempting to tap into it.
FlyDubai has a good brand in the ME, India and in Eastern Europe and they can find opportunities to funnel more traffic to EK - especially with their new Business Class product. I see widebodies as a natural extension of their current service (especially to medium/longhaul leisure routes not served by EK in SE Asia) - and yes, more than 4 hours on a 737NG seems like an eternity...
With regard to the general discussion of widebody flying, there will always be a market below the level of service and price provided by EK. And that market is huge in terms of potential passengers. There are more cheap passengers out there who don't want to pay EK prices.
Also, when the A330s depart the EK fleet, the smallest airplane in their fleet will be the A350-900 (or perhaps the 777-200LR?). So, FD could be used to build DXB/DWC feed on certain leisure routes or on routes too thin for the A350. That said, AirAsiaX, Cebu Pacific, Scoot and other LCCs are using A330-type aircraft on longer haul flights. There is a void in the low-cost market for medium and long haul flying that new technology can exploit - that is why Norwegian Longhaul is giving it a try and AirAsiaX, Scoot and others are attempting to tap into it.
FlyDubai has a good brand in the ME, India and in Eastern Europe and they can find opportunities to funnel more traffic to EK - especially with their new Business Class product. I see widebodies as a natural extension of their current service (especially to medium/longhaul leisure routes not served by EK in SE Asia) - and yes, more than 4 hours on a 737NG seems like an eternity...
Last edited by Iver; 9th Aug 2013 at 20:38.
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Iver,
You actually mention it later on in your post - business class. It'll be introduced from October onwards, which you can see when you click on the business class news on top of the homepage.
You actually mention it later on in your post - business class. It'll be introduced from October onwards, which you can see when you click on the business class news on top of the homepage.
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Cheers MD11 Man.
Business class makes sense as a next step as it makes it easier to maintain continuity of quality for connecting passengers to/from EK if FD develops a more complementary route system and offers connections. You need a business class product.
Business class makes sense as a next step as it makes it easier to maintain continuity of quality for connecting passengers to/from EK if FD develops a more complementary route system and offers connections. You need a business class product.
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But where will be the difference to EK then??
On longhaul no common sensed operator will have the pax pay for food/drinks/loo. Therefore the price of the ticket will slightly increase, reflecting in what you call "premium economy" or business.
Tell me, where is the difference to a EK-330-product to the subcontinent?
Cheap longhaul has been tried ad nauseam. They all failed, mainly because of the dwindling difference to legacy carriers (see above) and because on longhaul a huge number of passengers are of the connecting kind and the locos do not provide this.
Some point-to-point destination might work, but as soon as some operator like FD gets the numbers with a widebody, they become a competitor to EK and guess who will have the longer straw?
It's a fine line not getting too close to the big one.
On longhaul no common sensed operator will have the pax pay for food/drinks/loo. Therefore the price of the ticket will slightly increase, reflecting in what you call "premium economy" or business.
Tell me, where is the difference to a EK-330-product to the subcontinent?
Cheap longhaul has been tried ad nauseam. They all failed, mainly because of the dwindling difference to legacy carriers (see above) and because on longhaul a huge number of passengers are of the connecting kind and the locos do not provide this.
Some point-to-point destination might work, but as soon as some operator like FD gets the numbers with a widebody, they become a competitor to EK and guess who will have the longer straw?
It's a fine line not getting too close to the big one.
Last edited by glofish; 27th Aug 2013 at 09:19.
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Tangmo
Who cares what tube they will fly, or if they take 359 orders from EK?
It does not change a bit the fact that they will never be a hub carrier and if they compete a tad too much with the local hero, they will be curtailed.
Enjoy your wet dreams of flying a biggie!
Who cares what tube they will fly, or if they take 359 orders from EK?
It does not change a bit the fact that they will never be a hub carrier and if they compete a tad too much with the local hero, they will be curtailed.
Enjoy your wet dreams of flying a biggie!
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Glofish, I reckon that for FZ to get long wide-bodies they would have to first focus on properly utilising the rest of their monster order of B738's. they are still to receive some 20 aircraft all arriving over the next year or so.
N short, I think you're right.
N short, I think you're right.
