half Way through April and no-one cares.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Just having a browse through this thread and something is bugging me, i see guys starting to whinge and moan about EK, an airline your probably joined leaving worse and worsening conditions in other companies (i'm assuming you applied for the job there, did the interview and possibly moved your whole life to the middle east?). When you got there it was probably better than anything you had ever experienced in an airline nowadays...
Roll on a few years and you start to find the perceived cracks... i call them perceived because perception is unique to the individual. i.e you may be complaining about a profit share payout but the next guy who left his last airline because it went bankrupt is happy that he gets any pay check on time!
I'm only just over 2 years in aviation but i'm far from naive or wearing rose tinted glasses, and if this post is in the wrong place i apologise but i found it fitting because EK has long been regarded by my collegues as the "go to place" for a number of reasons and many of them have taken the plunge, if you compare the contract they had where i am now with what they have at EK its night and day.
My question is, are we, as pilots, Greedy? Even when we have a lot, we bitch and moan and want more, not taking into consideration all the other things we have...
No i'm not a management troll or whatever, i am just genuinely concerned that we are un-satisfiable.
Have i missed something?
Roll on a few years and you start to find the perceived cracks... i call them perceived because perception is unique to the individual. i.e you may be complaining about a profit share payout but the next guy who left his last airline because it went bankrupt is happy that he gets any pay check on time!
I'm only just over 2 years in aviation but i'm far from naive or wearing rose tinted glasses, and if this post is in the wrong place i apologise but i found it fitting because EK has long been regarded by my collegues as the "go to place" for a number of reasons and many of them have taken the plunge, if you compare the contract they had where i am now with what they have at EK its night and day.
My question is, are we, as pilots, Greedy? Even when we have a lot, we bitch and moan and want more, not taking into consideration all the other things we have...
No i'm not a management troll or whatever, i am just genuinely concerned that we are un-satisfiable.
Have i missed something?
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Seriously - you really do live in paradise....
I worked my ass off to get the job I have and earn what it do. Just because the next guy doesn't earn what we do doesn't mean we can't strive for better or resist an erosion of what we have.
Do you honestly have no respect for yourself?
I worked my ass off to get the job I have and earn what it do. Just because the next guy doesn't earn what we do doesn't mean we can't strive for better or resist an erosion of what we have.
Do you honestly have no respect for yourself?
Join Date: May 2005
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200boy. Wife, 3 kids, need to have a base in both DXB and home country, need to cover bills, schooling etc...apart from that you didn't miss anything. I thought getting paid $12000 in 1984 made me king of the hill, but then all I had to buy was beer. If you follow your line of thinking let's all work for nothing and wear nifty commie suits. It's not greed its about ending up where you were told you would be rather than having T&Cs eroding continually.
Last edited by Schnowzer; 29th Apr 2013 at 12:20.
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I think the problem is more what has been taken away rather than what we have. Also, since the Melbourne incident, there seems to have been a definite shift in managements thinking and behaviour.
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200er, what's the difference between our "greed" (the front line employees asking for their part of the profit as written in the employee handbook) and the bonus' + profit share (if any) of the office types? Their salaries have exploded in the last couple years but I guess that would not count as "greed", right?
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762 ...Yes again..
That job on the 73NG in Indonesia where you pay them $30k for the first 500 hours....
Throw a few bags in the hold on the walk around while you're at it..
; >
fliiongreedy
ps while we are waiting on the "loose change" number...too early to start the "wangker season" thread?
That job on the 73NG in Indonesia where you pay them $30k for the first 500 hours....
Throw a few bags in the hold on the walk around while you're at it..
; >
fliiongreedy
ps while we are waiting on the "loose change" number...too early to start the "wangker season" thread?
Last edited by fliion; 29th Apr 2013 at 22:06.
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762,
Surely you remember learning about Economic Scarcity in grade school... If not Google it, have a close read, then come back on this thread and apologize to everyone here for calling them greedy.
I respect that you have been flying for two years, and I'm sure that you have learned a great deal in the process; however, I have been flying for decades and work in one of the most demanding and unforgiving flight ops environments in the world. We regulalry fly to all six continents on the globe and do so with maximum productivity, and efficency to our employer. We've earned our fair share and we expect it. Run along now.
Surely you remember learning about Economic Scarcity in grade school... If not Google it, have a close read, then come back on this thread and apologize to everyone here for calling them greedy.
I respect that you have been flying for two years, and I'm sure that you have learned a great deal in the process; however, I have been flying for decades and work in one of the most demanding and unforgiving flight ops environments in the world. We regulalry fly to all six continents on the globe and do so with maximum productivity, and efficency to our employer. We've earned our fair share and we expect it. Run along now.
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Really?? You've been flying for decades and this is one of the most challenging environments? You need to get out more.
I've been doing this long-haul caper for less than 2 years (and not for much longer, thankfully). It is, without doubt, the least challenging (and best rewarded) job I have done in 22 years of flying. Flying a highly automated aircraft to about 6 radar-vectored ILS's a month is not tricky. My previous job - flying 4 sectors a day in crappy weather to 100 destinations served by precision, non-precision and circling approaches was challenging.
The problem with pilots who have been wide-body for too long is that they really start to believe all the cabin crew and ground staff who treat them like sky gods. By all means take the cash and enjoy the lifestyle, but let's not pretend the job is difficult. Tiring, tedious, unhealthy - yes. Difficult - no.
Most guys I fly with now would soil themselves if they had to do a circling approach.
I've been doing this long-haul caper for less than 2 years (and not for much longer, thankfully). It is, without doubt, the least challenging (and best rewarded) job I have done in 22 years of flying. Flying a highly automated aircraft to about 6 radar-vectored ILS's a month is not tricky. My previous job - flying 4 sectors a day in crappy weather to 100 destinations served by precision, non-precision and circling approaches was challenging.
The problem with pilots who have been wide-body for too long is that they really start to believe all the cabin crew and ground staff who treat them like sky gods. By all means take the cash and enjoy the lifestyle, but let's not pretend the job is difficult. Tiring, tedious, unhealthy - yes. Difficult - no.
Most guys I fly with now would soil themselves if they had to do a circling approach.
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Adolf
Check your target audience. Some fleets at EK do all the approach types you mention plus a few more.
I also get to see how good the majority are at actually doing it. Throw in a few problems and suddenly even the old ILS gets challenging and many dont make it look too pretty.
I don't think too many pilots here believe the demi-god thing. They get continually bashed in so many ways that a superiority complex would quickly vaporise.
I think you miss the point of the thread. No one likes a downwardly mobile salary. Should we be grateful for that? Fact of the world today is that executive salaries go up while most others decline. If you are happy with this status quo then give a thought for the next generation, maybe your kids. Just pray they get to executive level because if the trend continues they will be mere peasants laboring for the elite.
Look forward to seeing your stuff in the sim...
Check your target audience. Some fleets at EK do all the approach types you mention plus a few more.
I also get to see how good the majority are at actually doing it. Throw in a few problems and suddenly even the old ILS gets challenging and many dont make it look too pretty.
I don't think too many pilots here believe the demi-god thing. They get continually bashed in so many ways that a superiority complex would quickly vaporise.
I think you miss the point of the thread. No one likes a downwardly mobile salary. Should we be grateful for that? Fact of the world today is that executive salaries go up while most others decline. If you are happy with this status quo then give a thought for the next generation, maybe your kids. Just pray they get to executive level because if the trend continues they will be mere peasants laboring for the elite.
Look forward to seeing your stuff in the sim...
Last edited by disconnected; 30th Apr 2013 at 21:36.
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Where in FUSE PLUGs post did he say the "demands" had anything to do with the approaches we fly....wake up....presumably you Ace's read your circling app plate better than pprune.
f.
f.
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My previous job - flying 4 sectors a day in crappy weather to 100 destinations served by precision, non-precision and circling approaches was challenging.
Most guys I fly with now would soil themselves if they had to do a circling approach.
Most guys I fly with now would soil themselves if they had to do a circling approach.
EK will most certainly award you with all the merits and nadjims you deserve.
It's people like you we need, especially as DEC's coming from 4-leg outfits, or once the upgrade barely passed then running around with a star after 9 months.
Your superior performance enhances safety, as your contribution leads to us being no longer allowed to circle at night and we need manual handling sims.
Very revealing, especially the self declared high proficiency!!
Last edited by glofish; 1st May 2013 at 07:59.
Thread Starter
I hope I get these 25 sector a day in the worlds worse weather guys flying with me, as I need all the help I can get. Sounds like the hours and the experience they gained was well worth the money they paid for it.
The Don
The Don
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I never said it was difficult Adolf. I said that my flight ops environment (ie my employer, 3rd floor) was demanding and unforgiving (they are).
Leave it to guys like this to take a post about trying to get a just share of the pie as a slag on my ability as an aviator...
Honestly... I shot a visual approach yesterday on my 2 sector day. Let me tell you, it was rocket science, we barely made it out alive!
Give me a break and get of your high horse. All I was saying was that while my very demanding and unforgiving EMPLOYER is raking in profits made on the backs of me and my colleagues, I expect my share. Greed or scarcity you decide.
Now, no more putting words in my mouth, okay.
Leave it to guys like this to take a post about trying to get a just share of the pie as a slag on my ability as an aviator...
Honestly... I shot a visual approach yesterday on my 2 sector day. Let me tell you, it was rocket science, we barely made it out alive! Give me a break and get of your high horse. All I was saying was that while my very demanding and unforgiving EMPLOYER is raking in profits made on the backs of me and my colleagues, I expect my share. Greed or scarcity you decide.
Now, no more putting words in my mouth, okay.
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Really, gents, don't mind me. Just trying to provide some light entertainment while we all eagerly await the profit share.
Of course, if you really are concerned about retaining your terms and conditions, you could always have a quiet word with your union rep...
Of course, if you really are concerned about retaining your terms and conditions, you could always have a quiet word with your union rep...
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I can give you since May 2008:
05/08
12% 14wks
05/09 (GFC)
0, 0
However O/T threshold increased by 15%ish in effect wiping out 2008-2010
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11
8% 12wks
Edu fund went from 32-40 & 54-60 jnr/SNR respectively (but some loss on school bus setup)
05/12
3% 0
So in essence we have had an 11% increase since June of 2007..,hardly keeping up with the Joneses
As pixy said we are not where we should be (unless you can fly a circle maneuver and then we are overpaid)
f.
05/08
12% 14wks
05/09 (GFC)
0, 0
However O/T threshold increased by 15%ish in effect wiping out 2008-2010
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11
8% 12wks
Edu fund went from 32-40 & 54-60 jnr/SNR respectively (but some loss on school bus setup)
05/12
3% 0
So in essence we have had an 11% increase since June of 2007..,hardly keeping up with the Joneses
As pixy said we are not where we should be (unless you can fly a circle maneuver and then we are overpaid)
f.
Last edited by fliion; 1st May 2013 at 14:26.