Which Middle East Airline has best quality of life?

[SAS-A321]

I would think very carefully before joining Air Arabia and Air Macau. I have not heard a single good thing about the airlines. There are threads about both companies here on Pprune.

EK and EY would be the best in my opinion. I know one guy who is in the holding pool for EK and have been there for 7 months, so it is quite a wait.
GF is down sizing and only hired 2 guys from what I have heard.

If you are also interested in Asia look at Dragonair, Asiana, JetStar, VietJet or Citilink. Joining either VietJet or Citilink might be very quick since they are desperate for FOs.

[enthusiast]

I would like to add one more thing should be discussed on this thread. Even though I submited my application to EK also, as a first officer, I have placed the flag carrier of UAE on the top priority. I am already aware that EK provide better package to it's pilots than the airline which could not be named. Since EK restarted to hire DEC, according to street words, period to a captain will be longer than 7 years in EK. On the other hand another will give opportunity for a brand new FO to become a skipper of 777 in 3 years. Is there anybody could verify it. Thanks in advance.

[flyzede]

enthusiast

Hi!

enthusiast, just don't forget that the National Carrier of the UAE is also hiring DEC, so you also have to wait to jump to the left seat longer than it used to be.
Anyway, I believe that placing the Abu Dhabi one in first place is a good choice!

[jibba_jabba]

Every airline will have its good and bad points. BUT, I know a far few people in Emirates and all of them LOVE it.

Whoever is saying Emirates pilots will be shocking tired etc simply has to answer why my friends usually have 15+ days off a month!!!? VERY good rosters. Yes you may do big trips but you are looked after exceptionally well compared to any other middle eastern RPT carrier.

Actually, Emirates is run by westerners who have set up a very fair system, with seniority number based upgrades etc.... and they are expanding as well, so do your time and you will get offers for upgrades!

So my choice would be:

#1 Emirates
#2 T-had
# Qatar LAST! especially if your given 320.

[ironbutt57]

Shouldnt the question be "best qol at base"??? remember, mummy n the snot-gobblers are stuck there while we are out n about flying

[ironbutt57]

work rules and lifestyle in the Gulf pale by comparison to "back home" that being said, one must look at the potential earnings over their projected career timespan....moneywise it usually works out better to stay in the sand, career and healthwise, no comparison...go home

[millerscourt]

Samjetblaster

Have only just stopped laughing at your suggestion of GF

[richard III]

extremely interesting thread, good points made..I was wondering now that there is a window open in the three ME carriers for 777 skippers I would be really helpful to have varied informed opinions about the three, It looks like as a straight forward package, EK is the better option, financially there are few differences, and as far as company culture I see as much complaining for the three of them even though there is one we can't talk about much, as a place for family to live, it looks like Doha is trailing, but they have more money than god and a world cup coming, so they should shape up quick, I personally like AUH better than DXB, but thats just personal. Also should you decide to keep your family put, let's say in Europe for schooling reasons, which carrier will make it easier for you? regarding rosters and staff travel arrangements? I know that many pilots do this at QR and all the companies pay for schooling overseas so I assume It is an accepted though not established practice. I even saw a thread in this same section regarding tickets for the maid and relatives. Cost of life in the three cities? which city has better international schooling? Accommodation during layovers? training culture, instructors or demigods? Housing at base? network? All these intangibles are important if you have family and wish to either keep them home or bring them over....
All opinions are appreciated,
All the best and blue skies

[box]

Try the book "Escap.e from Dubai". Yikes!

[slowjet]

Richard 111.............what I would do for a "Good points MAID " Millers, I too, only just stopped laughing ! John 21 is cringeworthy at best. Look, yakeedoodles, for goodness sake, stay where you are. QOL with demos, explosions, rocks flung at your family....what are you people thinking ? And that's only London !

[babyjet787]

Maybe QR...? Anyone.....????

We would like to take this opportunity and draw your attention to the fact that rules are
in existence for curfew timings at the Cabin Crew accommodation and these rules must
be respected and complied with on all occasions when associating with them.
Additionally there are national rules and customs prohibiting cohabitation of unmarried
couples. These rules are binding and must be adhered to at all times.
The company has no intention to preclude freedom of association but it is essential that rules are followed....

Example of QR rules and management style...And you need an Exit permit to leave this "Prison"......in line with North Korea, (Cuba just abandoned that policy)
Welcome the World Cup Hosts....!!!

[Iver]

4 Sample Rosters By Fleet from Qatar Airways - All Previously Posted on Pprune

Here are some sample rosters from the A320, A330 and 777 fleets that have been posted on PPrune over the last 12 months (conduct a search and you will find them). These have been posted by actual QR pilots. Perhaps rosters have improved over time? Not sure - hope we all get some updates. Regardless, draw your own conclusions about how these types of rosters would impact your QOL:


#1 - A320 Qatar

For thosecontemplating joining QR, here is an actual roster for A320 Captain.The monthand specific destinations have been omitted to protect the innocent. All timesare based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
Day 9. off
Day 10. off
Day 11. report 0650, four-sectors around the Gulf, land DOH 1700.
Day 12. report 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd)
Day 13. land DOH 0645, report again 2345, two sectors for layover.
Day 14. land at outstation 0830 (layover)
Day 15. wake-up-call 0855, two sectors, land DOH 1910
Day 16. off
Day 17. report 2345, regional turn-around
Day 18. land DOH 0545, report again 1925, one sector for layover
Day 19. land at outstation 0055 (layover), wake-up-call 2300
Day 20. operate back to DOH followed by a Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1050
Day 21. off
Day 22. off
Day 23. ground school (ex. crm, security, dangerous goods)
Day 24. report 1045 Gulf turn-around plus regional turn-around, land DOH 2230.
Day 25. off
Day 26. off
Day 27. report 0700 one sector to Europe for 22h layover.
Day 28. wake-up-call 1030 fly to DOH plus Gulf turn-around, land DOH 2320.
Day 29. report 1230 one sector to Europe for 24h layover.
Day 30. wake-up-call 2200 to fly to Doha
Day 31. land DOH 0530.

This roster has the minimum eight days off, of which seven are at home and oneis in a hotel (Day 1). 92 block hours and 160 duty hours (= salary QAR42,500).Generally it is unusual to get days off at outstation.

You will often get a 10-12 day pattern with a combination of day and nightflying with the one legal day off in the middle. Rest of the month willobviously be better.

QR operates strictly according to legality. No regard is taken for family issues,fatigue-issues or the flight safety implications fatigue has. You will be tiredbeyond your imagination, but you will get a decent meal at 3am if you wish.

By the way, management cancelled one week’s leave for all A320 pilots thiswinter.

#2 - A320 Qatar


Here is another actualroster.
Again, all times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. off
Day 2. report 0630, Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 3. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 4. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 5. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 6. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 7. report 0040 for regional turn-around, land DOH 0610.
Day 8. off
Day 9. report 1515 for three-sectors, Gulf turn-around, followed by layoverIndia.
Day 10. land at outstation 0130 (layover), wake-up-call 2330.
Day 11. land DOH 0620. followed by 17hrs 25min rest.
Day 12. report 0015, regional turn-around, land DOH 0620.
Day 13. report 1115, regional turn-around, land DOH1940.
Day 14. off
Day 15. off

They actually gave me duty on my day off on day 14 (without asking), but Ireported sick for that day.

You will get a pattern like this almost every month.

#3 - A330 Qatar:


A330 Roster :-

2 x BRU
1 x ICN
1 x MNL
1 x DXB
1 x FCO
1 x ZRH + STR (3 sector day)

A return from LHR at the beginning of the month meant just over 99hrsflying.


#4 - 777 Qatar


Typical monthly Qatar777 roster

2 JFK (3 Days trip)
1 MEL (4 Days trip)
1 BKK-SGN (4 Days trip)
1 PVG (3 Days trip)

2-3 days off between and some stand-by

Flight time 120hrs/ 75 logged hours

[Laker]

Iver,

Those are without a doubt the worst rosters I have ever seen. How does Qatar manage to attract and retain pilots? I can't imagine those are truly representative of the norm... My head hurts just contemplating 120+ hours per month on the 777, or 8 days off on the 320 with one of them being on a layover! WTF? That stretch from day 2-8 of the A320 Roster looks like fun.

[Iver]

Laker,

I don't work for QR - I am just posting again what has already been posted by QR pilots. One would hope things would improve over time IF they want to hold on to quality pilots... That said, there is no evidence that anything has improved roster-wise (unless someone posts a recent roster that shows improvement).

Better for people to go to the Middle East (especially Qatar Airways) with their eyes WIDE OPEN. Just expect to work hard. You will work hard at all of the major airlines in the region - but QR appears to be the hardest working... The A320 rosters at QR look particularly challenging... That said, the longhaul flying on the 777 and A330 look equally exhausting (add in the jet lag). Based on these sample rosters and on comments provided by QR pilots, it sounds like monthly pilot productivity is the absolute priority at QR regardless of the attrition rate.

I personally know someone on the A380 fleet at EK who worked very hard as an A330/340 FO but now his roster is more stable on the A380 (at least for now) and he gets a good amount of time off between longhaul flights. He loves the A380 and he has more of a life now than he ever did on the other fleets.

[disagreeable]

QR roster.

A320:
quite hard rosters, infact, bad. Largely depends on bidding, BUT bidding will give you one great roster per few months, the rest being ordinary. Also at QR it depends on if your training cpt/management or in the "good books of the planners or somebody".
!!!8 days off is all your going to get!!!
Really bad day shift then night shift style planning.
average hours will be from 80 - 105 Hrs (flying time) per month! They even plan you illegally here!! unbelieveable. (160hrs+ for duty time which you dont get paid for).
And the monkeys running the show wonder why people want fleet transfers all the time!

A330:
At the moment, the fleet to be on.
Ave 12 - 14 days off.
average 55 - 80hrs flying per month.
may see routes disapear as the 7late7 starts to take the "nice" destinations and the 330 starts to become the freighter.

777:
ave 65 - 80 hrs flt time.
Ave 12 - 14 days off. some at outports.
bigger time changes but split crew and more rest during flight.
average

A300:
averaging 30hrs p/m.
Cant complain hey; Believe me, some boys do! they want to fly more! well come to the 320 is all I have to say to them

Potentially the 787 is a trapped fleet, as alot of the smaller 787's may be doing shorter haul stuff and end up like the 320..... hopefully not and goes towards the 330 rosters.

If you come anywhere in the ME you will work hard but especially true for 320 and in QR.

[ManaAdaSystem]

Is that first 320 roster a cabin crew roster or a pilot roster? Unless things have changed, QR don't roster off days out of base for their pilots, only for their cabin crew.

[salamalikum2]

Negative ManaAda, they do roster off days out of base for pilots as well!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Thanks for your info, mine is a bit outdated. Are you required (QR) to have two local nights off in any 7 day period?

[Iver]

Ex-A380,

I live and fly in Europe for the time being. I'd like to move to the ME once my flight times are more competitive since flying opportunities in Europe will be stalled for years. Several friends from Europe have flocked to the ME and I speak with them regularly about flying in the region. I am no expert and I don't pretend to be - I am seeking better information as well.

[Laker]

I think if they tried that at EK you would see an exodus of pilots. Dubai is getting more expensive by the day with a corresponding deterioration in buying power and working conditions. I'm guessing any further slide in roster quality would have a negative effect on attrition. What's the point of coming to the middle east if you can't save money and work yourself into an early medical disability?

I honestly don't see how Qatar finds people willing to sign up. I must be missing something.

maybe it's a good example of the boiling frog syndrome

Boiling frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia