EK Pay Review
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Actually AC, I wouldn't get out of bed for the 'massive' $270 per hour you mention buddy!!
Just had a look at my yearly pay on HR Direct and NOT taking into account the bonus last year I earned a shade under 800K dhs with the accommodation allowance.
I have flown around 650 hours in the last year and assuming say 20% back tax, my hourly pay is equivalent just over $400 per hour
I believe we had this conversation a year or so ago and I shall point out the same thing, I understand that there will be some sort of retainer or minimum earning hours built into their contracts, but what if your Delta buddy broke his leg and couldn't fly for a few months? Or worse still was off long term sick.... would Delta still be paying him full salary for up to 1 year? Thought not!
Don't get me wrong, things aren't perfect here and there are better packages out there (Delta ain't one of them though!!!), but it isn't as bad as you believe it is.
I also realise that you may have been 'duped' into joining EK by a former American manager and feel let down, but please for the sake of your sanity just look at it with a positive slant for a change
Just had a look at my yearly pay on HR Direct and NOT taking into account the bonus last year I earned a shade under 800K dhs with the accommodation allowance.
I have flown around 650 hours in the last year and assuming say 20% back tax, my hourly pay is equivalent just over $400 per hour
I believe we had this conversation a year or so ago and I shall point out the same thing, I understand that there will be some sort of retainer or minimum earning hours built into their contracts, but what if your Delta buddy broke his leg and couldn't fly for a few months? Or worse still was off long term sick.... would Delta still be paying him full salary for up to 1 year? Thought not!
Don't get me wrong, things aren't perfect here and there are better packages out there (Delta ain't one of them though!!!), but it isn't as bad as you believe it is.
I also realise that you may have been 'duped' into joining EK by a former American manager and feel let down, but please for the sake of your sanity just look at it with a positive slant for a change
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Why the comparisons to other airlines, Who cares - we live in Dubai and the cost of living here is huge!
What about meeting the cost of inflation, school fees and medical costs? These are our issues, not if you're earning more or less than someone working else where!
School fees this year are going to hurt all!
What about meeting the cost of inflation, school fees and medical costs? These are our issues, not if you're earning more or less than someone working else where!
School fees this year are going to hurt all!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Dubai does suck... just ask our ex-wives why they left us...we took a big sacrifice to move to **** hole desert and get shafted by EK.
All we want is our productivity pay back...
All we want is our productivity pay back...
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Simple question for you gents that don't quite get what AC is trying to convey, in his, let's say, less than gentlemanly way.
How many of you will be able to say you will stay here until you reach 65 doing on average 700 (and remember, ULR hours are reduced) hours a year, not being able to return "home" with your off days being limited and being restricted to make decent changes to one's roster? At most legacies, one's work rules, rosters etc get very easy as the autumn of the career approaches. Here it doesn't matter if you fly your hours in 15 days, you are not going to be able to do much with ADs inserted here and there.
A four year upgrade to any wide body aircraft is incredible. To be a 777/330 captain at the age of, say, 32 is off the charts. Would never happen at the legacies, anywhere. But no matter what changes have been made in the last four years with regard to flt ops firings, there is always that overhanging threat of a mistake being made and you will packing up in 48 hours.
For me, this place works. I have made incredible friends from parts of the world I would never have had the opportunity anywhere else. The company is basically run by others that are expats, and from what I have gathered there is little or no anomosity towards expats. Not the case at other "good deal" airlines. And the commercial division seems to have no equal. That said, we work in a very high stress flight operations that does and will take its toll.
Finally, it is bad form to criticise those who find EK a great place to work. There are reasons for their adoration, so AC, let them have their good feelings. It really doesn't matter, at EVERY airline there are 20% who would donate their first born to the company and 20% who would be willing to burn it down to prove a point (ie, Eastern). But in defence of AC, he in his way is perhaps just trying to point out some warts and blemishes. No doubt in the near future if he has the time (age) he will depart for again Delta, or Alaska or UPS or FedEx and just eat the senority dog for a better life style.
How many of you will be able to say you will stay here until you reach 65 doing on average 700 (and remember, ULR hours are reduced) hours a year, not being able to return "home" with your off days being limited and being restricted to make decent changes to one's roster? At most legacies, one's work rules, rosters etc get very easy as the autumn of the career approaches. Here it doesn't matter if you fly your hours in 15 days, you are not going to be able to do much with ADs inserted here and there.
A four year upgrade to any wide body aircraft is incredible. To be a 777/330 captain at the age of, say, 32 is off the charts. Would never happen at the legacies, anywhere. But no matter what changes have been made in the last four years with regard to flt ops firings, there is always that overhanging threat of a mistake being made and you will packing up in 48 hours.
For me, this place works. I have made incredible friends from parts of the world I would never have had the opportunity anywhere else. The company is basically run by others that are expats, and from what I have gathered there is little or no anomosity towards expats. Not the case at other "good deal" airlines. And the commercial division seems to have no equal. That said, we work in a very high stress flight operations that does and will take its toll.
Finally, it is bad form to criticise those who find EK a great place to work. There are reasons for their adoration, so AC, let them have their good feelings. It really doesn't matter, at EVERY airline there are 20% who would donate their first born to the company and 20% who would be willing to burn it down to prove a point (ie, Eastern). But in defence of AC, he in his way is perhaps just trying to point out some warts and blemishes. No doubt in the near future if he has the time (age) he will depart for again Delta, or Alaska or UPS or FedEx and just eat the senority dog for a better life style.
Last edited by TangoUniform; 19th May 2012 at 17:37.
we will never get close to Industry Standard.
Much as you won't hear it, particularly bfrom me, this is the crux of your problem.
Why do you assume that what is earned by a tiny majority of Pilots globally, in a legacy, Union contriolled environment, is the "Industry Standard?"
Who among us would not want $270 an hour plus the perks?
however there are plenty more airlines in the US that pay far more than Wizo is use to.
Last edited by Wizofoz; 19th May 2012 at 17:37.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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What sucks more, Emirates or Dubai? They both have their obstacles but if I don't like it I should just leave.
Thanks for the advice. I will consider it with the source it came.
Thanks for the advice. I will consider it with the source it came.
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TC
Nice post...BUT this discussion was never about the merits of EK per se...it was about comparing us to DELTA and the issue of cojones.
3 things that irritate me about EK (and no doubt everyone else that took offense to ACs post) ...,.the productivity adjustment during GFC, the checking culture & the treatment of the Airbus crews (rosters & upgrade shenanigans).
They are what they are, we all know coming here that we are vulnerable to a lack of control.
But this business of Delta @ $270 an hr ....as if anyone could get to the LHS there within 20 yrs ... and our lack of 'courage'?..in order to survive here you need to be smart not courageous.
AC's ideas on that.... What a load of bollix
f.
Nice post...BUT this discussion was never about the merits of EK per se...it was about comparing us to DELTA and the issue of cojones.
3 things that irritate me about EK (and no doubt everyone else that took offense to ACs post) ...,.the productivity adjustment during GFC, the checking culture & the treatment of the Airbus crews (rosters & upgrade shenanigans).
They are what they are, we all know coming here that we are vulnerable to a lack of control.
But this business of Delta @ $270 an hr ....as if anyone could get to the LHS there within 20 yrs ... and our lack of 'courage'?..in order to survive here you need to be smart not courageous.
AC's ideas on that.... What a load of bollix
f.
Last edited by fliion; 19th May 2012 at 19:24.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Ladies & Gents
I just received a pvt email from our esteemed AC hurling emotional maniacal insults...and talking about all of us Ameriacns that flew Furlough Jets.(what's that?)...yawn.
I post for the fun of the joust rather than anything else....and you know when you get one of those mad pvt insulting MSG ' s ...you' ve really hit the bullseye ...
Love it....; >
f
I just received a pvt email from our esteemed AC hurling emotional maniacal insults...and talking about all of us Ameriacns that flew Furlough Jets.(what's that?)...yawn.
I post for the fun of the joust rather than anything else....and you know when you get one of those mad pvt insulting MSG ' s ...you' ve really hit the bullseye ...
Love it....; >
f
Last edited by fliion; 19th May 2012 at 19:43.
Gee, Ladies, you are giving everyone outside Emirates the very clear idea that you are a great big bunch of whining jessies! 'I want this' and 'we want that'! Get a grip, girls! You have jobs, and if inflation in Dubai rises faster than your income, pull your belt in!
You are nowhere near destitute, which is what you would try have everyone believe. If the rest of the aviation world is doing so much better than big-girls-blouse-central in Dubai, then put your money where your mouth is and leave.
How odd, I don't hear a stamped out of Dubai. Pathetic whingers.
You are nowhere near destitute, which is what you would try have everyone believe. If the rest of the aviation world is doing so much better than big-girls-blouse-central in Dubai, then put your money where your mouth is and leave.
How odd, I don't hear a stamped out of Dubai. Pathetic whingers.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Like it or not we know the industry has been in a slow decline for years. The American carriers have been among the worst hit in the global decimation of pilots contracts. Doesn't United still have guys on furlough going back over 10 years? Unbelievable. I don't know about Delta, but it can't be good.
I don't drink any kool aid and despise some of the rostering practices, lack of management support, draconian contract changes, etc, but you have to appreciate what this place is - an opportunity for stability, to keep your career on track and provide for your family.
I have seen some of these young guys recently on their command course with very limited experience, some with little or no command, no previous wide body and EK really being their first real major airline. They might bitch and complain but behind the scenes in the dark of night they know they are lucky as hell. For those younger guys with limited experience, EK would have never
hired them years ago. They have needed massive numbers for expansion and
have kept dropping the hours and experience levels. I have to agree with
Tango uniform and fliion- command in your mid 30's with a regional
background? Ya right. Shut it, and thank your lucky stars kid. I love to hear
these guys complain and then politely start asking about their previous
experience. They back off about as fast as a dubai horn on a green light...
Compare all you like AC, and you might be right in some cases, but be careful
out there or you might be lucky enough to wind up back as a DEC in EK like
the guys coming back recently from greener pastures.
I don't drink any kool aid and despise some of the rostering practices, lack of management support, draconian contract changes, etc, but you have to appreciate what this place is - an opportunity for stability, to keep your career on track and provide for your family.
I have seen some of these young guys recently on their command course with very limited experience, some with little or no command, no previous wide body and EK really being their first real major airline. They might bitch and complain but behind the scenes in the dark of night they know they are lucky as hell. For those younger guys with limited experience, EK would have never
hired them years ago. They have needed massive numbers for expansion and
have kept dropping the hours and experience levels. I have to agree with
Tango uniform and fliion- command in your mid 30's with a regional
background? Ya right. Shut it, and thank your lucky stars kid. I love to hear
these guys complain and then politely start asking about their previous
experience. They back off about as fast as a dubai horn on a green light...
Compare all you like AC, and you might be right in some cases, but be careful
out there or you might be lucky enough to wind up back as a DEC in EK like
the guys coming back recently from greener pastures.
Last edited by Saltaire; 20th May 2012 at 08:36.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Agreed Saltaire, there is without a doubt worse places to be.
Can you at least give me that there are better places to be as well?
On the 1-10 scale of world airlines Emirates is probably a 7 or 8. Your mileage will vary.
Can you at least give me that there are better places to be as well?
On the 1-10 scale of world airlines Emirates is probably a 7 or 8. Your mileage will vary.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
However I say anyone is better off in their own home country building their castle slowly... Instead of trying to take a short cut in the dusty hot place working like a madman for madmen.
However I say anyone is better off in their own home country building their castle slowly... Instead of trying to take a short cut in the dusty hot place working like a madman for madmen.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I'm with 555 on this one, been here 11+ years and it has not improved over that time, but the entire industry has gone downhill as well. EK is not bad, thats it. Dubai is boring and it wears you down.
I'm just waiting /in the process ( applying ) to get out of here. The grass is not always greener but at least its green.
I'm just waiting /in the process ( applying ) to get out of here. The grass is not always greener but at least its green.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Really Craggenmore? Do you really think EK is the best airline in the world? When you include everything and I mean everything Emirates is below numerous other airlines.
When you make statements like you did it makes me wonder if all the flying we are doing in the middle of the night is really getting to you or you never have had a clue to begin with.
When you make statements like you did it makes me wonder if all the flying we are doing in the middle of the night is really getting to you or you never have had a clue to begin with.
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Look guys, the fact of the matter is EK is a pretty good place to weather out the economic storm but really nothing more. While most of you have a point anyone that doesn't see Emirates for what it is, is either blind or in denial. Unfortunately EK has become nothing more than a low cost with wide bodies. We have zero work rules, unreliable rosters-meaning our hours and days off are completly at the companies whim, health insurance while good to some of you is really quite crap and full of holes by my standards, no pay for block time (all that circling at desdi is free), I won't go on but we are all painfully aware of the issues. Anyone arguing that EK is the best airline or even compares to US or EU legacys has got a serious case of heat stroke. Most of us I think would like to at least entertain the idea of being able to stay here for a while but I'm afraid with our current conditions it would be a death sentence, literally. For those that don't believe me, take a look at an old study that was done by ALPA (I believe) in the States about FedEx pilots. Back in the 80's/early 90's they were doing flying similar to ours, ie 85+hrs a month with 70% at night, anyway the study found that a large majority were dead within 5years of retirement. I wish that fate upon no one soo good luck to you all amigo's