EK Profit Announcement
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Oblaaspop not in the slightest bit surprised that there is no bonus. I think the last message from the Chairman regarding the financial results forecast spelled out very clearly that there would be no profit share, although this wasn't stated directly.
However, we have still made a bumper profit (in very tough conditions) and so, like you I would be very annoyed (to put it lightly) if there is no increment or indeed no payrise for those already here. Facing large recruitment requirements I think they would be daft not to be seen to offer nothing when we are still making a shed load of cash. It's a massive massive decision to move your family over here (as we all know) and it takes very little for a decision to be reached not to come.
However, we have still made a bumper profit (in very tough conditions) and so, like you I would be very annoyed (to put it lightly) if there is no increment or indeed no payrise for those already here. Facing large recruitment requirements I think they would be daft not to be seen to offer nothing when we are still making a shed load of cash. It's a massive massive decision to move your family over here (as we all know) and it takes very little for a decision to be reached not to come.
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Ex A380 I was referring to the memo that was published PRIOR to the one we just received. The one where they issued a forecast. I fail to remember when it was released, January/February?? Can't remember. But it was a clear indication that there would be no profit share come May.
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What you have to remember it's us naughty pilots, we have all been using too much fuel !!
Company policy is to commit to DXB no matter what time of day or night/ traffic conditions, and then when you divert they'll be onto to you for not taking enough.
And lets not go there when dispatch load up the gas, in response to the knee jerk reaction from upstairs when the birds are scattered to the four winds when Dxb goes pear shaped.
Company policy is to commit to DXB no matter what time of day or night/ traffic conditions, and then when you divert they'll be onto to you for not taking enough.
And lets not go there when dispatch load up the gas, in response to the knee jerk reaction from upstairs when the birds are scattered to the four winds when Dxb goes pear shaped.
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Sandhound:
Umm, the profit is for Emirates Group, which includes the airline and DNATA, among others. It doesn't matter which entity shows the profit.
Ya, you showed them 
The management swaps figures from the airlines profit to DNATA. All to save money. And now with this trick they proofed the target was not reached.
Don’t think everyone is soooo stupid!
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Get some perspective Sandhound.... Did you feel 'cheated' when you got 14 weeks bonus last year?? Thought not!
Also a profit of $600m against a turnover of $18bn is actually a pretty poor show and would wreak investor mayhem with a poor PE ratio on a stock exchange (if it were listed)!
So while to you and I $600m sounds like a lot of money, in reality it's c0ck all and frankly quite worrying!!
Also a profit of $600m against a turnover of $18bn is actually a pretty poor show and would wreak investor mayhem with a poor PE ratio on a stock exchange (if it were listed)!
So while to you and I $600m sounds like a lot of money, in reality it's c0ck all and frankly quite worrying!!
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We're all disappointed but to be honest I'm not surprised. The target was always a mile above what was even expected, EK owns the train set.
As an observation though, with pax numbers around 34 million, you would think even a small increase in fares would be appropriate....
Should be interesting to see if TCAS turns up to any washups now.
As an observation though, with pax numbers around 34 million, you would think even a small increase in fares would be appropriate....
Should be interesting to see if TCAS turns up to any washups now.
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I'm just pleased EK spent 200 million USD on the "hello tomorrow" campaign to convince me that I am proud to work for Emirates. Otherwise, I may have been slightly displeased with not receiving some form of thanks for the extra effort I have put in during the last 12 months.
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lies, damn lies, then statistics
I'm with Sandhound...I bet mngt got a nice bonus this year by showing lies *cough* i mean statistics to his highness. hello governor, look how much money I saved you, give me bonus, give me give me
couple notes...
1. Emirates is actually welcoming of these economic conditions because airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, etc are hurting MORE than EK. EK weathers the storm and gains more routes, gate space as others shrink. EK wants a global monopoly and no competition and pure pricing power.
2. Our fuel bill has more than doubled in two years, and now represents 40.2 per cent of our total costs. Last year, we spent an additional Dhs7.5 billion (US$2 billion) on our fuel bill - 79% or Dhs5.9 billion directly related to higher fuel prices compared to the previous year. If fuel prices had held steady, our Group profit could have touched a record Dhs8.2 billion!
Be suspicious of these words. Did the fuel bill double in terms of percentage or in terms of real dirhams? Of course you are going to spend more money on fuel when you add 3 new Jets to the fleet a month.
3. Reading the last Safar, they are really beating the "we have no unfair advantages, its the people and service that make us great" drum. In these testing times for other airlines, nothing is worse than showing absolutely brilliant earnings. Its harder for Lufthansa to cry foul when EK is crying too.
In conclusion, lies, damn lies and statistics. No one really knows what the REAL books say.
couple notes...
1. Emirates is actually welcoming of these economic conditions because airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, etc are hurting MORE than EK. EK weathers the storm and gains more routes, gate space as others shrink. EK wants a global monopoly and no competition and pure pricing power.
2. Our fuel bill has more than doubled in two years, and now represents 40.2 per cent of our total costs. Last year, we spent an additional Dhs7.5 billion (US$2 billion) on our fuel bill - 79% or Dhs5.9 billion directly related to higher fuel prices compared to the previous year. If fuel prices had held steady, our Group profit could have touched a record Dhs8.2 billion!
Be suspicious of these words. Did the fuel bill double in terms of percentage or in terms of real dirhams? Of course you are going to spend more money on fuel when you add 3 new Jets to the fleet a month.
3. Reading the last Safar, they are really beating the "we have no unfair advantages, its the people and service that make us great" drum. In these testing times for other airlines, nothing is worse than showing absolutely brilliant earnings. Its harder for Lufthansa to cry foul when EK is crying too.
In conclusion, lies, damn lies and statistics. No one really knows what the REAL books say.
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So sandy, are you saying that the figures are fabricated?? If so please show your evidence!
You state that you can't understand how DNATA made a massive increase in profits... Is this because you are a thick moron or did you miss the bit about DNATA buying several large companies who would also have turned a profit this last year?
I note you haven't answered my question about how cheated you felt with the 14 weeks last year.... what a surprise!
Like I said, anyone with a brain larger than that of plankton or pond life would have figured out that no bonus was coming our way this year.... now I'll tell you that I am not cabin crew so please do me the honour of telling me whether you are plankton or pond life!!
Chose your battles wisely my friend
You state that you can't understand how DNATA made a massive increase in profits... Is this because you are a thick moron or did you miss the bit about DNATA buying several large companies who would also have turned a profit this last year?
I note you haven't answered my question about how cheated you felt with the 14 weeks last year.... what a surprise!
Like I said, anyone with a brain larger than that of plankton or pond life would have figured out that no bonus was coming our way this year.... now I'll tell you that I am not cabin crew so please do me the honour of telling me whether you are plankton or pond life!!
Chose your battles wisely my friend
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Oblaaspop So sandy, are you saying that the figures are fabricated?? If so please show your evidence!
You state that you can't understand how DNATA made a massive increase in profits... Is this because you are a thick moron or did you miss the bit about DNATA buying several large companies who would also have turned a profit this last year?
I note you haven't answered my question about how cheated you felt with the 14 weeks last year.... what a surprise!
Like I said, anyone with a brain larger than that of plankton or pond life would have figured out that no bonus was coming our way this year.... now I'll tell you that I am not cabin crew so please do me the honour of telling me whether you are plankton or pond life!!
Chose your battles wisely my friend
chill....I think everyone was expecting at least 2 weeks to save face
You state that you can't understand how DNATA made a massive increase in profits... Is this because you are a thick moron or did you miss the bit about DNATA buying several large companies who would also have turned a profit this last year?
I note you haven't answered my question about how cheated you felt with the 14 weeks last year.... what a surprise!
Like I said, anyone with a brain larger than that of plankton or pond life would have figured out that no bonus was coming our way this year.... now I'll tell you that I am not cabin crew so please do me the honour of telling me whether you are plankton or pond life!!
Chose your battles wisely my friend
chill....I think everyone was expecting at least 2 weeks to save face
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Totally agree with Sandhound.
The 14 weeks last year was a slap in the face as 8 weeks of that was to recoup the productivity pay EK and TCAS stole from me!
What a total let down.
We are all Jeff Sweeney taking another fast ball to the berrys
The 14 weeks last year was a slap in the face as 8 weeks of that was to recoup the productivity pay EK and TCAS stole from me!
What a total let down.
We are all Jeff Sweeney taking another fast ball to the berrys
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Maybe I missed something but did we not get 12 weeks last year? Anonymity with opinions is a easy thing....but opinions are like ar@e holes....everyone has one! 
. Divide and rule the workforce is in full swing here I'd say 
. Divide and rule the workforce is in full swing here I'd say
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Sandhound,
I think you are quite rude to our colleague. Especially since he is right:
The profit share is indeed for the Emirates group, which includes SkyCargo and Dnata. So if Dnata makes more profit, that would only benefit us.
So before you start accusing me of low IQ etc.. I am not happy with how the profit share works, but this has (at least this year) nothing to do with unrealistic figures. It has all to do with the greed of the owners and setting the threshold for the profit share at an unrealistic level.
I also agree with the comment that the actual profit compared to the revenue is at an alarming level. This indicates to me that our cost cutting hasn't nearly ended and we can all expect further increases in productivity (days off on layovers comes to mind), especially on the main fleet where a mix of short and long haul flying can be optimized by the company.
I also don't expect a pay rise: we are already offering one of the better packages in the industry and our pools for FO and DEC positions are back at a good level with lots of experienced guys wanting to join.
Again, not the news I want to hear, but you have to be a realist. We are treated by this management as a commodity, so its all about supply and demand, and the supply of experienced pilots is not a huge problem now, so they can keep the 'buying' price for these pilots as low as possible.. Simple economics, and a problem of the industry as a whole, not only Emirates...
MR8
I think you are quite rude to our colleague. Especially since he is right:
The profit share is indeed for the Emirates group, which includes SkyCargo and Dnata. So if Dnata makes more profit, that would only benefit us.
So before you start accusing me of low IQ etc.. I am not happy with how the profit share works, but this has (at least this year) nothing to do with unrealistic figures. It has all to do with the greed of the owners and setting the threshold for the profit share at an unrealistic level.
I also agree with the comment that the actual profit compared to the revenue is at an alarming level. This indicates to me that our cost cutting hasn't nearly ended and we can all expect further increases in productivity (days off on layovers comes to mind), especially on the main fleet where a mix of short and long haul flying can be optimized by the company.
I also don't expect a pay rise: we are already offering one of the better packages in the industry and our pools for FO and DEC positions are back at a good level with lots of experienced guys wanting to join.
Again, not the news I want to hear, but you have to be a realist. We are treated by this management as a commodity, so its all about supply and demand, and the supply of experienced pilots is not a huge problem now, so they can keep the 'buying' price for these pilots as low as possible.. Simple economics, and a problem of the industry as a whole, not only Emirates...
MR8
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I think most pilots can accept the lack of profit share this year. It WAS a tough year and we didn't meet the target.
What we can't accept is the continuing degredation of our conditions by flt ops management.
Why do they limit the number of days off in a row, why do they continue to roster us for 6 day block immediately preceeding leave, why do they block 5 days of leave in a month and still fly us 92 hours, why do they limit the swaps to even more stringent rules then regular rostering (but break their own rules when it suits them), why do they keep LOWERING our per diems, put us in hotels (ie. Dallas) where we can't get meals 24 hours a day........over an over and over again.
EK and Flt Ops could quite easily get the pilots onside (well, 90% anyway because 10% will always bitch and moan regardless) by working to make crew lives better with a number of costless or near costless initiatives. Start with correcting the above mentioned items.
The rostering stuff is FREE!!!!! Our rostering people are out of control, working to make life easy for themselves with no regard for the crew OR other management. Look at how they scupper training and ground instruction with their hopeless rules forcing VP's to intervene to get the courses they want.
Want an even better example. Why can't cabin crew get what they want in their top bid months?? You have a shortage of cabin crew because they tire of the conditions. Most will happily accept the crappy night turns if they know that in their top bids they will get some of the better flying. Instead you literally force them out the door.
I can live without the bonus since we didn't make the target. But PLEASE fix the other issues and maybe you will get us back on your side! But flying 90 plus hours a month, month after month and watching the conditions get worse, for NO reason, only leads to unhappy crew and, regardless of what you believe with respect to moral etc, it costs the company money!
Righting some of the conditions above (and the others you know about) cost almost nothing especially in comparison to the savings you achieve when crew work with you.
What we can't accept is the continuing degredation of our conditions by flt ops management.
Why do they limit the number of days off in a row, why do they continue to roster us for 6 day block immediately preceeding leave, why do they block 5 days of leave in a month and still fly us 92 hours, why do they limit the swaps to even more stringent rules then regular rostering (but break their own rules when it suits them), why do they keep LOWERING our per diems, put us in hotels (ie. Dallas) where we can't get meals 24 hours a day........over an over and over again.
EK and Flt Ops could quite easily get the pilots onside (well, 90% anyway because 10% will always bitch and moan regardless) by working to make crew lives better with a number of costless or near costless initiatives. Start with correcting the above mentioned items.
The rostering stuff is FREE!!!!! Our rostering people are out of control, working to make life easy for themselves with no regard for the crew OR other management. Look at how they scupper training and ground instruction with their hopeless rules forcing VP's to intervene to get the courses they want.
Want an even better example. Why can't cabin crew get what they want in their top bid months?? You have a shortage of cabin crew because they tire of the conditions. Most will happily accept the crappy night turns if they know that in their top bids they will get some of the better flying. Instead you literally force them out the door.
I can live without the bonus since we didn't make the target. But PLEASE fix the other issues and maybe you will get us back on your side! But flying 90 plus hours a month, month after month and watching the conditions get worse, for NO reason, only leads to unhappy crew and, regardless of what you believe with respect to moral etc, it costs the company money!
Righting some of the conditions above (and the others you know about) cost almost nothing especially in comparison to the savings you achieve when crew work with you.
Last edited by Trader; 10th May 2012 at 12:30.
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To me the issue is not with the profit figures being massaged or even made up completely. I would like to know how they come up with the target every year as it just seems like a random number. Is it actually calculated at all or do they just think of a number and double it?