Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

EK Profit Announcement

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

EK Profit Announcement

Old 10th May 2012, 13:45
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In the State of Perpetual Confusion
Posts: 185
To me the issue is not with the profit figures being massaged or even made up completely. I would like to know how they come up with the target every year as it just seems like a random number. Is it actually calculated at all or do they just think of a number and double it?
In years past, they actually looked at the flying in the coming year, calculated the projected yields and costs and came up with an expected number for the profit. They then increased that number somewhat (if I remember correctly) and that was the magic number for the profit share. The last few years it seems the target was simply the previous years profit.
Gillegan is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 13:48
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 133
Well the company have authorized our 3% increment!.... Yehaw. Effective from may tho? Surely this should be from 1st April?
apron is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 14:27
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 441
Ooops my bad, it was 12 weeks last year.... just checked! What a 'kin rip off eh?

Blind loyalty sandy? NO! A modicum of common sense and ability to realise how ANY business works and makes money? Yes!

I take back my comment about you being pond life as I have actually seen more intelligent creatures than you lying upside down motionless at the bottom of a pond!

I think it's a bit rich questioning my IQ when you can't even put forward a logical argument to support your comments.... I'll ask again what PROOF do you have that you are being cheated, robbed and lied to about this years results. Do you think oil prices are actually $9 a barrel and the world economy is experiencing it's largest and longest ever boom or something?

Wake up AND grow up!
Oblaaspop is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 15:12
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 954
I don't think most of us expected a proft share; however I am sure you'll agree that many of us thought that as a gensturethe company *might* have given a week or two as a 'thanks'... watch the resignations roll in, especially from the CC who were considering leaving but just might have been persuaded to stay by a bit of recognition from their 'dear leaders'....

Management 101 suggests that if you appreciate and engage your workforce then they will give back even more in monetary value than what you 'spend' on them- whether that be time or money. It doesn't even have to be a monetary gesture. Clearly they kind of miss this point. One only has to watch the completely crappy attitude of some of the crew onboard (to each other and to passengers) to see where they have failed to do this. They just don't get that all they had to do was to say, look, no proft share- but as a small token hey, here's a week or two- they'd probably have dramatically improved the morale of a good chunk of the CC- arguably the biggest customer facing section of the workforce and definitely the biggest influencer on the customer.

Now watch what happens, especially since they will be forcing all the A380 fleeted crew to cross-qualify on the 777....! Hello resignations...
givemewings is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 17:57
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Sandpit
Posts: 127
The standard method for calculating the target is they take the actual income for a financial year and add 20%. It is based on what is actually achieved not what the target was. Ie Target for year X is $1 Billion. If actual achieved is $1.2 Billion then the next years target is $1.2 billion +20%.
That is how it used to be calculated, not sure what is actually happening these days - haven't bothered to do the sums...
jumbo1 is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 19:10
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 441
LR3 makes very valid points chaps.... Those of us with IQ's greater than 3 (sadly that rules you out sandy old chap), actually don't give a toss about profit shares!!

What is important is the package keeping pace with the cost of living and of course lifestyle.

My guess is that 99% of us pilots came from airlines that didn't give profit shares anyway (probably because they never made a profit), so what's the big deal?

Give me a decent pay rise which keeps me in the lifestyle I have become used to every year with a decent roster and I'll be a happy camper! To the rest of the [email protected] stains whinging on about no profit share etc... I'll say it again, chose your battles wisely: this aint one of them!
Oblaaspop is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 19:11
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tent in the Desert
Posts: 43
EK Profit Announcement

No one is resigning. I just love guys with these idle threats, "watch the resignations flow in," they say. Where would they go? No where! Not a lot of options out there so lets just keep it real and go fly the jets.

Even if you do resign, they have DECs that'll go straight into training, waiting inline.

12 weeks, 14 weeks, 2 weeks. Whatever! We didn't get a bonus, boo Hoo Hoo! Stop your whining and get back to work.

People whine when we got 14 weeks and still whine when we get nothing. Some Of you are never happy. The bonus is theirs to give and the rules are documented, no one was cheated.

Advertising is essential for a company's market share and without it we are lost in a very competitive market. Think of it as an investment that will pay off in the future. We spend money to make money. $200 million is money well spent regardless of the slogans effect. The main thing is the customer will see, "Emirates". It appeals to the emotions and if it looks good and sounds good, they go fly Emirates.

Maybe we'll get one next year, maybe not, but for those of you who are motivated by dollars, i say this to you: You will never be satisfied.

Now let's go fly jets with company fuel if the weather is fine and destination has 2 runways. Heck, I'll commit on the bus on my way to work. Of even while having my muesli for breakfast at the hotel.

So let's all just Sheikh-it-easy!
Sheikh-It-Easy is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 19:14
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 172
Emirates is not audited by the Big 5 Accounting firms or their standards and hence will never go public for that reason alone. Having said that no one has seen their books and whatever they publish is whatever they want you to see. It is not official and can not even be presented in a court of law.
As I said last year 12 weeks bonus last year was great if that is what we were due. It was pretty obvious that we were shorted or rob about 8 weeks so at the very least we should have received 8 weeks this year to make up for last year's theifery. We all know where we live though.
Alconguin Crusader is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 20:00
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 50
Posts: 2,584
Originally Posted by sheikh-it-easy
No one is resigning. I just love guys with these idle threats, "watch the resignations flow in," they say
I think that was mainly a reference to CC...

Originally Posted by alconguin crusader
Emirates is not audited by the Big 5 Accounting firms or their standards and hence will never go public for that reason alone
So PWC isn't one of the world's Big 5 accountants? I always thought PWC were above board. But what do I know - I'm just a sharp-end operator

Half of you lot here on the forums no doubt wear tin-foil on your heads, so deep are these apparent conspiracy theories
White Knight is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 23:45
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 47
Re: cc bonus

I'll tell you what, the cabin crew that have somewhere to go back to will be resigning like crazy... The only ones that won't are the ones that are stuck here for whatever reason.. Why would they want to stay?
- being forced to live out in the middle of nowhere when they were promised something different (szr)
- 120 flying hour rosters, while other airlines still give theirs 60-70hrs..
- less than minimum layovers (24hr JFK layover for a 14.5th flIght wtf?)
- flawed bidding and swapping systems.
- the company is promoting the culture of backstabbing and reporting, this is killing the morale..
- staff travel limitations: no jumpseats or upgrades.. Ever!
- at the end of the day the pay is not enough, not for westerners anyway.

The list goes on..
perkin1 is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 01:04
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Varies!
Posts: 733
Perkin 1

Good points, agree with all of them. This isn't the same Company it was 8 years ago. However fancy the advertertising may be or whatever slogan has been thought up by overpaid and overrated marketing gurus, if you build up your 'customers' expectations, the reality will be a let down by tired and demotivated cabin crew. Happy crew = happy passengers! Hardly rocket science.

LR3

Maybe i've misread your post but STATCOM will have taken into account the 20 minutes Desdi holding or whatever the statistical holding time was for your particular flight over a period of time. Look at the contingency figure next time you have one of these plans and see what extra has been given for this very reason. It won't show as additional because additional fuel should only be carried if unforseen circumstances are forecast.
BYMONEK is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 06:14
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 209
Here is the link to the annual report.

Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group

Have a look at the Financial Information 2011-2012 document with respect to expenditure and Employee Cost as % of Total Operating Cost:

2007-2008-15.9%

2008-2009-14.3%

2009-2010-15.9%

2010-2011-15.6%

2011-2012-13.1%

A huge relative reduction in employee cost as a percentage of total operating cost for which you can be damn sure the SVP/EVP/SVEPP/SPVDDVP's, etc, etc, etc will all be receiving a considerable "performance" bonus (every senior manager in Flight Ops) on the back of your considerable increased productivity for the year.
Dune is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 07:27
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
Posts: 1,042
Well, if the percentage of fuel rises in the TOC, some other percentage will go down. So thereís no change in OC of manpower, simply the relation changed.


No bonus and a shabby 3% on the payroll Ö. No, there will not be mass resignation. There are still tons of applicants that fuel the borderless arrogance of EK management. Therefore they can and will do whatever they want.

The problem is more subtle, hidden in the daily ops. Considering the huge buffer between the profit and our share(not), it settles into our subconscious, that it makes no difference if we work our butts off or not, so in the future we will not. Itís as simple as that. Why should we shut down engines, chose idle rev, strive for that on time departure or slow down if early, change level for pax comfort or savings, why should we go that extra mile for the company? It makes no difference to my wallet, so why make our life more complicated?

The operation will hardly run smoother from now on. Most probably they will see an increase of the fuel bill, not much, but indifference will show. Then they will bombard us with letters, threats, fciís and so forth, to improve things and help the poor company. There will be more painful changes to our conditions to counter that subtle trend. But the trend will continue because such pressure only accelerates it. And more bashing will follow.
That is the war with pilots AAR started, as someone righlty pointed out. It is not declared, it is simply happening. Thereís no unified pilot front, no individual the other side can point out and take out publicly as a warning showcase. Itís like the worlds most powerful army fighting some morons in remote mountains. As we know, thereís no winner in such confrontations. The whole building just gets cracks and eventually needs huge renovations.

Been there, seen that. No one learnes the lessons, every airline management thinks they know better. Itís a matter of time, but even EK will fall of its self erected high pedestal, because their arrogance has already started dismantling an important supporting strut, the one consisting of its employees.
glofish is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 08:02
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 209
Well, if the percentage of fuel rises in the TOC, some other percentage will go down. So thereís no change in OC of manpower, simply the relation changed.
Not quite so simple. Run a ratio of % employee costs to % fuel costs over the past 5 years and see what ratio you come up with. Lowest annual employee cost:fuel cost by a significant margin.

Fuel costs they cannot control; employee costs they can (no union) and have done so significantly on a cost relative basis over the past 5 years ........ obviously without any regard for the long term health, family well-being or career prospects of anyone (save a few office wogs) in the pilot group.

It is what it is but statistically it merely reiterates how we have been backed into a corner over the past 5 years.

Last edited by Dune; 11th May 2012 at 08:57.
Dune is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 14:03
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Away from the sand misery
Posts: 20
LOOK FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE

CSA is interviewing. commuting 6/2, 215k a year after tax. 80 hrs max per month. 230 USD extra over 80 hrs.
Scoot also interviewing, but its OK only for those without kids.

China Southern ordered 10 777 for 2013
Eastern China just ordered 20 777 two weeks ago.

Future, salary and conditions looking brighter in South east Asia.

Here, it will become worse and worse. This is just the beginning.
(Medical, allowances, days OFF, Holidays, etc etc etc and prices in Dubai in the skies.....This is not NY, Sydney, Singapore, London, etc etc...its just Dubai, desert, sand, beach and Malls...not even comparable to the big cities of the world)

If you are looking for life quality, time OFF and good money to save for your future, then Dubai and Emirates is not the place anymore.

Dont burn brain cells anymore. Take care of your health and your love ones.

Bye bye those memorable times.
maligno is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 16:50
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Varies!
Posts: 733
LR3

Your really are confusing the pants off me. Isn't Flight Ops actually making your life easier with STATCON? Unless there is fog forcast, or en route sig weather or any other unplanned or variable event, then you don't need to 'umm' and 'arr' about how much fuel to take, it's already been decided for you! Not sure therefore how this is a valid example of management 'attacking you'?

Careful with generalising about Indian ATC. With the pressures and rules they work under, most do a bloody good job. Only wish they didn't speak so fast!

Last edited by BYMONEK; 11th May 2012 at 16:51.
BYMONEK is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 19:39
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Between here & nowhere
Posts: 18
Hey LR3
I am so sick of your post. What did I sign up for??????
Productivity pay dude!
Day in a month
28 = 70
29 = 73
30 = 76
31 = 78

Now
28 = 83
29 = 86
30 = 89
31 = 92

Last year that equates to over 60000. DHS loss.
I really don't want to sink to a low and call names, so please stop with "what did you sign up for?"

I really don't think you are a pilot flying the line.

XBS
xbleedstart is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 22:18
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 50
Posts: 2,584
Originally Posted by xbleedstart
I am so sick of your post. What did I sign up for??????
Productivity pay dude!
Dipstick......................

No such thing in the contract to sign up for!
I hope you're a John Deere muppet, cos you and I won't get along
White Knight is offline  
Old 12th May 2012, 00:40
  #79 (permalink)  
K9
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 22
This an exerpt from the 1st July Letter on the 1996 Pilots Pay Award. Note the honesty and general tone of the letter. Also the well explained and logical rational behind the changes....

Productivity Pay/Credited Hours

Emirates Pilots average flying hours compare very favourably with the industry norms, and in the past few years there has been a significate extra effort, when unplanned additional aircraft have been brought into service at short notice to meet the commercial demand. It has been my wish for some time to reward pilots who make a direct contribution to the profitability of our Company. We will therefore start a Productivity Pay Scheme from 1st August 1996.

In order to measure Pilot work output far more precisely than in the past, we will change to a Credited Hour Scheme, rather than simply measure Block Hours.

The calculation of Credited Hours will be done as follows:-

Block Hour = 1 Credit Hour
Minimum Daily Credit on duty = 3.5 Credit Hours/per crew rotation
Standby = 3.5 Credit Hours/per duty
Simulator/Ground Duty = 3.5 Credit Hours/per duty
Office Duty = 3.5 Credit Hours/per duty
Leave = 2.5 Credit Hours/Day
Postioning as passenger = As for flying duty
Sickness = Nil Credit
Day Off = Nil Credit

The setting of the threshold for the triggering of Productivity Pay has been the subject of considerable analysis. It has been decided that the initial levels will be as follows:

31 day month = 83.7 Credit Hours
30 day month = 81 Credit Hours
29 day month = 78.3 Credit Hours
28 day month = 75.6 Credit Hours

Pilots who exceed the above values in any calendar month will be paid per Credit Hour or portion thereof at the following rates:

Captains 400 Dirhams
First Officers 280 Dirhams


SGMFO

Last edited by K9; 12th May 2012 at 00:42.
K9 is offline  
Old 12th May 2012, 10:31
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: universe
Posts: 565
Beware of people who use the phrase DUDE. Sign of midlife crisis. Right xbleed?
vfenext is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.