Emirates going with DEC
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Just have a look at how few have left in the last 12 months
That's what I've moved up on the S.List so; if 100 DEC's join, has time to command actually changed for me since joining..? Seems to be 100 out and 100 in.
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Sticking my message from an other post as it probably better suit here (sorry for exceptionally trolling):
I have 12000 TT including 5000 CPT and LTC on A330 and more than 7000 CPT longhaul (B747 and A330) plus 2000 CPT jet.
Is that DEC openning interesting for me?
I am afraid not just because the salary and TCs are not good enough!!!!!
EK will get what they are paying for.
Hope guys (FOs) from inside will be thank for the time they gave to EK.
Why don't EK hire TREs from outside for a short time contract (very well paid and in agrement with other airlines) to train senior EK FOs waiting for their medal?
I have 12000 TT including 5000 CPT and LTC on A330 and more than 7000 CPT longhaul (B747 and A330) plus 2000 CPT jet.
Is that DEC openning interesting for me?
I am afraid not just because the salary and TCs are not good enough!!!!!
EK will get what they are paying for.
Hope guys (FOs) from inside will be thank for the time they gave to EK.
Why don't EK hire TREs from outside for a short time contract (very well paid and in agrement with other airlines) to train senior EK FOs waiting for their medal?
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White none please, pray tell, why do you say that?
And Cancel2LateLunches, "slagging off" the captains you fly with is also very bad form, is it not? Particularly when someone makes claims of "babysitting" & then provides no facts to back up the claim. I wasn't slagging off EK F/O's at all. I was just pointing out some of what I had witnessed over the years, in order to back up my statement that I had had to "babysit" more F/O's than have ever had to "babysit" me. I didn't want people to think I make sweeping, emotive claims with nothing to back them up.
Some people seem to have been either blinded by emotive, self righteous rage, or show a very poor grasp of English comprehension. I know that English isn't the first language of a lot of pilots at EK, but you have to demonstrate a certain level of english proficiency in order to get the job, don't you? The things my post supposedly indicates that I have done! I've re-read it a couple of times & maybe I'm a little slow, but I just can't join the dots. And just how they know exactly what I think or believe, leaves me wondering if they are actually witches huddled around a cauldron, throwing in frog's legs, cat's whiskers & my post, so they can gain access to my innermost thoughts. Perhaps HR could use them to vet applicants to save a little time.
And Cancel2LateLunches, "slagging off" the captains you fly with is also very bad form, is it not? Particularly when someone makes claims of "babysitting" & then provides no facts to back up the claim. I wasn't slagging off EK F/O's at all. I was just pointing out some of what I had witnessed over the years, in order to back up my statement that I had had to "babysit" more F/O's than have ever had to "babysit" me. I didn't want people to think I make sweeping, emotive claims with nothing to back them up.
Some people seem to have been either blinded by emotive, self righteous rage, or show a very poor grasp of English comprehension. I know that English isn't the first language of a lot of pilots at EK, but you have to demonstrate a certain level of english proficiency in order to get the job, don't you? The things my post supposedly indicates that I have done! I've re-read it a couple of times & maybe I'm a little slow, but I just can't join the dots. And just how they know exactly what I think or believe, leaves me wondering if they are actually witches huddled around a cauldron, throwing in frog's legs, cat's whiskers & my post, so they can gain access to my innermost thoughts. Perhaps HR could use them to vet applicants to save a little time.
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duststorm 
PUA
The military tried that, didn't always work 'cos big brain and lots of thoughts but very litle CDF - "Common Dog F
"
Some of us did the University of Life
PUA
" Regulations should state that above 100 passengers you not only need an ATPL but a degree as well.
It would put some more sensible individuals in the system "
It would put some more sensible individuals in the system "
"Some of us did the University of Life
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BabyGF VFEnext
Try to read between the lines and you will be the one you suspect you are: clever and above gliding in the center of the Universe.
Psychology is very important for instructing and detecting the whole personality of someone in reading only a few words very helpfull for selecting...
DDay mate
Try to read between the lines and you will be the one you suspect you are: clever and above gliding in the center of the Universe.
Psychology is very important for instructing and detecting the whole personality of someone in reading only a few words very helpfull for selecting...
DDay mate
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fliion,
Can't disagree with most of what you say, however:
that would be a move as a DEC I presume. What comes around............
Can't disagree with most of what you say, however:
The Reintroduction of DECs is one of those blows that will leave a bruise that will ultimately lead to new skippers in the future leaving for big contact money is Asia
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I wasn't slagging off EK F/O's at all
leaves me wondering if they are actually witches huddled around a cauldron, throwing in frog's legs, cat's whiskers & my post, so they can gain access to my innermost thoughts.
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Autraliancalu
It takes years of experience AND a degree to be a good psychologist. Even then it is a very grey area. Amateur psychologists have done a lot of damage in the past.
A good TRE is first of all a good captain. Someone who has enough empathy with the way a crew handles the situation, he is NOT a psychologist and far from a psychiatrist.
I have been at various training meetings in EK and more often than not it is a palaver based on distrust in their own crews. The true dynamics are often more an issue of projection than a well evidence-based opinion.
Some FO and Capt are rightfully pissed off and are ventilating their anger on this forum. It is simply impossible to draw any conclusions, based on these posts, as to the capability of these individuals. The word that comes to mind is prejudice
Every cockpit has two seats to be filled. Both require a certain degree of experience. Both pilots need to be able to fly the plane, if needed, as a single pilot in distress.
Some FO's at EK are certainly overqualified for the right seat and are ready to move on. The problem may be just an issue of replacing them. The bottleneck of a company that is expanding quickly might just be to find enough FO’s.
Finding FO’s with enough experience for the long haul is looking for people that are close to command already.
An airline like EK that has a bad reputation as an employer will have to fix:
1. It’s reliability with regard to signed agreements.
2. Create a training environment that puts emphasis on investing in training rather than checking.
3. Use psychologists to screen the cognitive capabilities of the pilots when hiring them. Following this, the upgrade failure rate should be less than 5%. If this was not done during recruitment you will run into problems. Not only during upgrade but also during normal line operations. Every airline that takes recruitment seriously does it in this way. I probably made an overstatement that a degree is necessary but the fact that one should have the capabilities to get one is not.
4. If you have the wrong people in the training department then that will reflect on their decisions and policy advice all the way up the food chain.
It takes years of experience AND a degree to be a good psychologist. Even then it is a very grey area. Amateur psychologists have done a lot of damage in the past.
A good TRE is first of all a good captain. Someone who has enough empathy with the way a crew handles the situation, he is NOT a psychologist and far from a psychiatrist.
I have been at various training meetings in EK and more often than not it is a palaver based on distrust in their own crews. The true dynamics are often more an issue of projection than a well evidence-based opinion.
Some FO and Capt are rightfully pissed off and are ventilating their anger on this forum. It is simply impossible to draw any conclusions, based on these posts, as to the capability of these individuals. The word that comes to mind is prejudice
Every cockpit has two seats to be filled. Both require a certain degree of experience. Both pilots need to be able to fly the plane, if needed, as a single pilot in distress.
Some FO's at EK are certainly overqualified for the right seat and are ready to move on. The problem may be just an issue of replacing them. The bottleneck of a company that is expanding quickly might just be to find enough FO’s.
Finding FO’s with enough experience for the long haul is looking for people that are close to command already.
An airline like EK that has a bad reputation as an employer will have to fix:
1. It’s reliability with regard to signed agreements.
2. Create a training environment that puts emphasis on investing in training rather than checking.
3. Use psychologists to screen the cognitive capabilities of the pilots when hiring them. Following this, the upgrade failure rate should be less than 5%. If this was not done during recruitment you will run into problems. Not only during upgrade but also during normal line operations. Every airline that takes recruitment seriously does it in this way. I probably made an overstatement that a degree is necessary but the fact that one should have the capabilities to get one is not.
4. If you have the wrong people in the training department then that will reflect on their decisions and policy advice all the way up the food chain.
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Originally Posted by PUA
So White Knight, I know you have been around for some time.
After your previous post; did you feel important? Or were you just giving in to your narcisism.
Why would EK be in the need of some contract TRE's?
How many pictures did you take of yourself on your black horse?
After your previous post; did you feel important? Or were you just giving in to your narcisism.
Why would EK be in the need of some contract TRE's?
How many pictures did you take of yourself on your black horse?
B) Feel important? Sorry fellah; just passing on what I heard from those I know in EK pilot recruitment!!!!
C) I didn't say anything about TREs. That was in the 'quote' that I was responding to.
D) I don't ride; ergo I don't have a black horse; ergo I haven't taken any pictures of myself on it
Now please PUA, read the posts and try and understand them! And no more stupid private messages please
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It's more interesting than that. The reason that we required DECs is that our current crop of line pilots is too lazy. Read for yourself just above M&M's signature on the training letter.
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Oh dear MM, you just blew all the credit we gave you!
Blaming the line pilots of being lazy, not wanting to apply as TRI/E and take another shafting by dismal conditions, by a dreadful bidding system, by a even more crap e-swap, yes, blaming the line pilots working in excess of 90h for the need to get DECs, most importantly training astronauts, is extremely low!
At least now you routed part of the anger of the bypassed FOs onto the line captains!! Smart move, but without looking too much into the future. The new trainers will be met with even more contempt, now by FOs AND Captains and all of MMs good training work (yes it was very good) just goes down the drain.
I guess he has finally adapted to EK and DXB.
Blaming the line pilots of being lazy, not wanting to apply as TRI/E and take another shafting by dismal conditions, by a dreadful bidding system, by a even more crap e-swap, yes, blaming the line pilots working in excess of 90h for the need to get DECs, most importantly training astronauts, is extremely low!
At least now you routed part of the anger of the bypassed FOs onto the line captains!! Smart move, but without looking too much into the future. The new trainers will be met with even more contempt, now by FOs AND Captains and all of MMs good training work (yes it was very good) just goes down the drain.
I guess he has finally adapted to EK and DXB.
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Just curious... how can u blame a line pilot for not wanting to commit more of his time to train? logically would it not the companies responsibility to make the position attractive enough to be able to pick and choose the most qualified and MOTIVATED people? i don't know i could not resist but state something i think is obvious
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Putting DEC straight into training is to make all DEC feel welcome and give them the support they will need. It will provide more integrity and reduce the gossip that will otherwise infect the system.
It may also reduce the number of incompetent asslickers that get into the system.
It may also reduce the number of incompetent asslickers that get into the system.
They aren't putting them straight into training, but they are recruiting guys earmarked to go into training after the minimum amount of time on line.
Desert Hawk,
The comment wasn't that there is something wrong with line pilots for not wanting to train, but simply that as not enough guys want to, there really can't be too many complaints about recruiting guys who do.
Of course, making the role more attractive to existing pilots might ALSO have been an option, but..err..who do,we work for again??
Desert Hawk,
The comment wasn't that there is something wrong with line pilots for not wanting to train, but simply that as not enough guys want to, there really can't be too many complaints about recruiting guys who do.
Of course, making the role more attractive to existing pilots might ALSO have been an option, but..err..who do,we work for again??
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In the eyes of the disgruntled EK FO's everything EK does is wrong. Personally I'm getting a bit bored with these pilots who think they are entitled to an upgrade, if you look back at some of those who complained the most you will find that most failed and failed badly. MM said all those that meet the Min's will have a chance at upgrade, if you blow it down blame training blame yourself. You say you are ready than it should be no problem