Emirates going with DEC
Two groups got shafted today by this FCI.
1. Those FOs forced onto the 380 because they had the required experience when others didn't. As they will be watching their less experienced peers upgrade on the minibus as they wait to do the 2500hrs on the 380.
2. Junior Capts on the mini bus, as they watch a new joiner FO do 1yr on the mini bus before going to the 380 and upgrading on it before the minibus capt does his 4 yrs of command requirement.
If they could just decide on one upgrade/transfer policy and stick with it rather than waiting for the knee to jerk again!!!
The Don
1. Those FOs forced onto the 380 because they had the required experience when others didn't. As they will be watching their less experienced peers upgrade on the minibus as they wait to do the 2500hrs on the 380.
2. Junior Capts on the mini bus, as they watch a new joiner FO do 1yr on the mini bus before going to the 380 and upgrading on it before the minibus capt does his 4 yrs of command requirement.
If they could just decide on one upgrade/transfer policy and stick with it rather than waiting for the knee to jerk again!!!
The Don
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So when EK F/O's get into the LHS and then at some point years later, leave EK for other pastures, do they still strongly oppose DEC's ....?
I think not - most will suddenly think DEC's are OK and take a DEC job themselves elsewhere.
Get over it
I think not - most will suddenly think DEC's are OK and take a DEC job themselves elsewhere.
Get over it
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So go on strike then. (or go sick on the same day) Seriously if ALL pilots in the group said we wont fly with that policy then watch how quick it will all change. Yes i know pilots would never stick together or do that, but just imagine....
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No lectures required about unity here Pam. Plenty of pilots in EK that have exercised their legal rights of representation in the past. For whatever reason, they then chose to leave that protection behind and become an expatriate contract pilot.
That's all we are and I do not require or expect anything from my colleagues other than a professional work ethic.
On the subject of FR pilots (or any breed for that matter) and making sense of it all. Wouldn't it be ironic if an FR DEC were to join and fly with an ex FR pilot that is now an EK FO, but had once been a DEC with FR with the first individual as the FO!
Make sense of that and try to find some sympathy.
That's all we are and I do not require or expect anything from my colleagues other than a professional work ethic.
On the subject of FR pilots (or any breed for that matter) and making sense of it all. Wouldn't it be ironic if an FR DEC were to join and fly with an ex FR pilot that is now an EK FO, but had once been a DEC with FR with the first individual as the FO!
Make sense of that and try to find some sympathy.
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On the subject of FR pilots (or any breed for that matter) and making sense of it all. Wouldn't it be ironic if an FR DEC were to join and fly with an ex FR pilot that is now an EK FO, but had once been a DEC with FR with the first individual as the FO!
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Its not yet on the company website....
Does Emirates intend to recruit direct entry Captains?
We currently have many First Officers who are ready to upgrade to Captain, and therefore it is not a priority for the immediate future.
We currently have many First Officers who are ready to upgrade to Captain, and therefore it is not a priority for the immediate future.
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Ladies & Gents,
Just to clarify I'm confused....From my reading...you could have a 5-6 year A380 FO through no fault of his/her own who would have say transferred to the 38o at year 3.5 (coz there were no upgrades at their seniority then) who has done the first 3.5 years doing 330 India night turns mainly, now has to have 2500 in the RHS of said bus (new FCI) to transfer to LHS 380 for command.(say 2.5 -3 yrs total 380 time = 6.5 yrs total)...
...yet (wait for it!)...a euro LCC PIC with 7k total time & 2.5k cmnd time can technically come in and interview for Capt...and not even have to know the fcukn OMA....And get a 7 yr start on Capt pay compared to said FO...
What an absolute disgrace....
Cue DSO...car convo...
45ish 3 stripe to 32ish 4stripe:
" mornin!... How long you hear skip?"
" 6.5 weeks!...you?"
"6.5 years on widebody/doubledecker, 3rd world intl flying @ 60% of your pay skippy"
Pathetic.
f.
Just to clarify I'm confused....From my reading...you could have a 5-6 year A380 FO through no fault of his/her own who would have say transferred to the 38o at year 3.5 (coz there were no upgrades at their seniority then) who has done the first 3.5 years doing 330 India night turns mainly, now has to have 2500 in the RHS of said bus (new FCI) to transfer to LHS 380 for command.(say 2.5 -3 yrs total 380 time = 6.5 yrs total)...
...yet (wait for it!)...a euro LCC PIC with 7k total time & 2.5k cmnd time can technically come in and interview for Capt...and not even have to know the fcukn OMA....And get a 7 yr start on Capt pay compared to said FO...
What an absolute disgrace....
Cue DSO...car convo...
45ish 3 stripe to 32ish 4stripe:
" mornin!... How long you hear skip?"
" 6.5 weeks!...you?"
"6.5 years on widebody/doubledecker, 3rd world intl flying @ 60% of your pay skippy"
Pathetic.
f.
Last edited by fliion; 20th Feb 2012 at 19:33.
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If this is true, Emirates has gone from the top of the list (in the region) right down to the bottom of the pile next to their cousins down the road.
I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible.
“We do not need DECs because we have plenty of experienced FOs and the only way in is as FO at the bottom of the list”.
I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible.
“We do not need DECs because we have plenty of experienced FOs and the only way in is as FO at the bottom of the list”.
Last edited by inciter; 20th Feb 2012 at 20:02.
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DEC's
I once had a TRE tell me that the biggest mistake EK has made in this whole debacle, is that they stopped hiring DEC's. 
He was f$&@"g lucky I have a good sense of humour!!
I personally have no issue with the Individual, just the "Policy". Especially when we have some very capable guys in the RHS!! EK should only be going down this path when there are no "Upgradeable" F/O's. And IF and only IF DEC's are required they should be type rated with experience commensurate with the same field of operations, not some Plonker who's got a million sectors crossing the "Chanel" and never used HF!!
What an Utterly Disgraceful Company!
He was f$&@"g lucky I have a good sense of humour!!
I personally have no issue with the Individual, just the "Policy". Especially when we have some very capable guys in the RHS!! EK should only be going down this path when there are no "Upgradeable" F/O's. And IF and only IF DEC's are required they should be type rated with experience commensurate with the same field of operations, not some Plonker who's got a million sectors crossing the "Chanel" and never used HF!!
What an Utterly Disgraceful Company!
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Inciter wrote:
"I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible."
This absolutely ridicolous, I am speechless this is supposed to come from a professional pilot.
If this is the way you consider any company TREs than or that training department is utterly ridicolous or you are missing a few points about this profession. At this moment I might ponder towards the second option...
So much bullsxit about CRM and the hours count/don't count and than sentences like this... Training/checking should be above personal battles, integrity should be the norm otherwise whatever remains of this profession is dead.
If you're working for EK no wonder they keep looking for fresh blood again and again!
"I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible."
This absolutely ridicolous, I am speechless this is supposed to come from a professional pilot.
If this is the way you consider any company TREs than or that training department is utterly ridicolous or you are missing a few points about this profession. At this moment I might ponder towards the second option...
So much bullsxit about CRM and the hours count/don't count and than sentences like this... Training/checking should be above personal battles, integrity should be the norm otherwise whatever remains of this profession is dead.
If you're working for EK no wonder they keep looking for fresh blood again and again!
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Originally Posted by inciter
I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible.
You think DECs should be failed just so TREs can prove a point regarding their(or, more to the point, YOUR) opinion?
Pathetic.
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Wind the clock back to 2004.... we all saw it happen then, the reality is guys we have no say what the company does.... because it's not our company. we choose to come here and unfortunately things change that disadvantage us, but, so this is not going to change.
I feel for many of the very good F\O's that we have, it is indeed hard to swallow a bitter pill but hang in there guys, things change rapidly in EK.
We at least are still expanding there is still opportunities for advancement. I for one would sure as sh*t hate to be waiting for a command in BA or Qantas.
I feel for many of the very good F\O's that we have, it is indeed hard to swallow a bitter pill but hang in there guys, things change rapidly in EK.
We at least are still expanding there is still opportunities for advancement. I for one would sure as sh*t hate to be waiting for a command in BA or Qantas.
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...and perhaps...hopefully....just maybe......there has been some forethought......and the FCI is meant to head off any future issues.....and that there is truth that no qualified FO's will be bypassed.....
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Storm in a teacup...
Even if it takes an FO 10 years to wide-body command at EK...that is still extremely fast by most yardsticks.
DECs are always a testy subject...but I think the 'doom and gloom' for FOs and new joiners needs to be kept in perspective.
A few DECs is not going to stop guys chasing a WB command in the sandpit. It will still be MUCH quicker, on better money and better conditions than if they aspired to that goal in their country of origin.
PG
PS. While it has been said before, it bears repeating: It its someone else's train set. Pilots stepping out from their (usually) western, democratised home countries know the risks of working in an environment which lacks any significant employee rights and industrial protections. Risk versus reward should always be weighed carefully.
DECs are always a testy subject...but I think the 'doom and gloom' for FOs and new joiners needs to be kept in perspective.
A few DECs is not going to stop guys chasing a WB command in the sandpit. It will still be MUCH quicker, on better money and better conditions than if they aspired to that goal in their country of origin.
PG
PS. While it has been said before, it bears repeating: It its someone else's train set. Pilots stepping out from their (usually) western, democratised home countries know the risks of working in an environment which lacks any significant employee rights and industrial protections. Risk versus reward should always be weighed carefully.
Last edited by Popgun; 21st Feb 2012 at 02:51. Reason: added PS.
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"I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible."
Just keep in mind that a TRE is recommended by the airline to the civil authority.
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Wind the clock back to 2004.... we all saw it happen then, the reality is guys we have no say what the company does.... because it's not our company. we choose to come here and unfortunately things change that disadvantage us, but, so this is not going to change.
I feel for many of the very good F\O's that we have, it is indeed hard to swallow a bitter pill but hang in there guys, things change rapidly in EK.
We at least are still expanding there is still opportunities for advancement. I for one would sure as sh*t hate to be waiting for a command in BA or Qantas.
I feel for many of the very good F\O's that we have, it is indeed hard to swallow a bitter pill but hang in there guys, things change rapidly in EK.
We at least are still expanding there is still opportunities for advancement. I for one would sure as sh*t hate to be waiting for a command in BA or Qantas.
We can say whatever we want, the company does whatever it wants.
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I wonder how many Guys have recently applied for F/O will now be told by EK that they actually meet the min requirement for Capt??
Just the same as ALOT of the current EK F/Os do!
It's going to get messy!!
Cav.
Just the same as ALOT of the current EK F/Os do!
It's going to get messy!!
Cav.