Emirates going with DEC
Not certain that's true, 777. The last year was pretty horendous in terms of training, and they stuck to not hiring DECs. they really won't unless they feel their is no alternative.
They have certainly looked at DE SFEs, SFIs and FCTIs, and possibly TREs, but line DECs will be resisted if possible.
They have certainly looked at DE SFEs, SFIs and FCTIs, and possibly TREs, but line DECs will be resisted if possible.
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I won't venture into the debate on whether EK should recruit DEC's. The subject has been exhausted in the past. The bottom line is that if EK needs DEC's they will surely recruit DEC's whether it goes down well or not. EK is a business venture and at the end of the day their agenda is to be profitable and not let planes parked on the Tarmac.
Wizofoz they surely have resisted to date but at what cost? Can they possibly maintain this status quo?
they really won't unless they feel their is no alternative.but line DECs will be resisted if possible
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Wizofoz they surely have resisted to date but at what cost? Can they possibly maintain this status quo?
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When they do DEC 's again and for those that come as DEC's rememeber that you will be at the bottom of the Capt list even when you are in you top bid group. You will remain there for a very long time if not forever.Past DEC's did not realize that and complained and got nowhere.
If there is @ 1000 Capts you will be 1001 there is now a @1000 FO's and each and everyone of those FO's are senior to you and when they upgrade they go above you.
If there is @ 1000 Capts you will be 1001 there is now a @1000 FO's and each and everyone of those FO's are senior to you and when they upgrade they go above you.
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DECs
We all forget (EK) is a biz institution, they can do what ever deems necessary to ensure profitability, like wise, we walk away when a better deal becomes available. It's business, some DO NOT like understand that, I left EK to JQ. 
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I have had some really good experiences with the DEC's and some really bad experiences
....The thing I hate the most is when guys start in on trying to convince me the way their old airline did things was better.....very common with the guys who came in from large airlines such as BA, USair, Ansett etc.
so where's the difference?
@fatbus
It's not the best idea to discourage DEC's to come (bid-priority), it's way more effective to discourage FO's to come.
No more FO's -> birds grounded -> no more DEC's needed.
It's supply and demand.
By the way, it's not very reasonable to bring up the quality issue, as long as we have to read too many of those moronic ASR's from the homebred teams ....
(no HF with Mumbai, full Flaps at 1450ft, and so forth)
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I'm not trying to discourage them to come, just trying to provide some valid info. TC said pilots will not restrict the expansion of this airline so I don't see any AC being parked.It really makes no difference to me. As some have said EK will do what ever it wants, the altest is very junior AB FO's (only 330 not MFF ) going to the 380 because of a hugh manpower problem on the 340.Those FO's will upgrade on the 380 when the time comes, while the MMF AB FO's dont know what they will upgrade on,330/350/380. If I was a 340 FO I would be very pi$$ed off right now.
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When they do DEC 's again and for those that come as DEC's rememeber that you will be at the bottom of the Capt list even when you are in you top bid group. You will remain there for a very long time if not forever.Past DEC's did not realize that and complained and got nowhere.
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Catch 22 !!
In such a tight-lipped industry we operate in its hilarious how "someone has heard"...,"announcement to come next week"...,"DEC's coming"..., etc. Maybe it might happen, maybe not, but have a look at the endless possibilities:
Where are they going to come from? (assuming that the requirements set will be wide body command time) China expats make double what we make, so I really can't see them coming from there. Lots of Euro capts have come recently and failed FO interviews here, so unless they are coming from retired positions in KLM, AF, speedbird, QF... I don't see the pass rate being great at all!
Younger FOs with 2500 hrs will continue to flood in from everywhere with the dreams of flying something big but I'm pretty sure higher hour boys and girls will stop. So in a few years, since we'll have a majority of low hour FOs, the company would have only two choices for upgrade; lowering the requirements again or higher more DECs to cover the lack of 'suitably qualified FOs'.
Where are they going to come from? (assuming that the requirements set will be wide body command time) China expats make double what we make, so I really can't see them coming from there. Lots of Euro capts have come recently and failed FO interviews here, so unless they are coming from retired positions in KLM, AF, speedbird, QF... I don't see the pass rate being great at all!
Younger FOs with 2500 hrs will continue to flood in from everywhere with the dreams of flying something big but I'm pretty sure higher hour boys and girls will stop. So in a few years, since we'll have a majority of low hour FOs, the company would have only two choices for upgrade; lowering the requirements again or higher more DECs to cover the lack of 'suitably qualified FOs'.
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Recently I heard that a friend of mine who applied to EK failed to pass the interview. I was really surprised as this guy is a highly qualified Captain and has over 11,000 hours Airbus time in his pocket. He is only 42 yrs old and was a former military fast jet pilot. A truly gentleman in all aspects.
Maybe I am wrong, but this does not make any sense to me. What kind of professionals are EK looking for at the moment? Just good talkers? Someone who already knows by heart the whole screening process?
So why is so many people at EK (supposedly FOs) so concerned about this DEC polemic?
Maybe I am wrong, but this does not make any sense to me. What kind of professionals are EK looking for at the moment? Just good talkers? Someone who already knows by heart the whole screening process?
So why is so many people at EK (supposedly FOs) so concerned about this DEC polemic?
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busav8r...You never know when it comes to an interview. I have had the best applicant on paper come across as so arrogant that there was no way I would give the guy a job.
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DECs will be a bad move if EK does indeed go ahead with them. The last batch was a complete disaster and everyone knows it even Wizo. He says the failure rate was over 20% but I strongly suspect that number is a little low.
Who is going to come to Emirates as a current and qualified widebody international captain? the last time all we got was narrowbody domestic pilots. Yes I know there were a few CP or BA double dippers but very few as a %.
Plus Emirates is currently scrapping the bottom of the barrel of qualifed FOs. If they do hire DECs what is this going to do the FO quality? Who is going to come when it will take that much longer to upgrade at EK keeping in mind that many airlines pay more than EK with less upgrade time?
This DEC policy will be a big mistake.
By the way since I have been here 4 times Emirates said it was not going to hire DECs but very shortly after that they did hire DECs. This is the company you are going to join. Not very honest so get used to it.
Who is going to come to Emirates as a current and qualified widebody international captain? the last time all we got was narrowbody domestic pilots. Yes I know there were a few CP or BA double dippers but very few as a %.
Plus Emirates is currently scrapping the bottom of the barrel of qualifed FOs. If they do hire DECs what is this going to do the FO quality? Who is going to come when it will take that much longer to upgrade at EK keeping in mind that many airlines pay more than EK with less upgrade time?
This DEC policy will be a big mistake.
By the way since I have been here 4 times Emirates said it was not going to hire DECs but very shortly after that they did hire DECs. This is the company you are going to join. Not very honest so get used to it.
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Cerbus. "Who is going to come when it will take that much longer to upgrade at EK keeping in mind that many airlines pay more than EK with less upgrade time?"
Where is this airline, or airlines you speak of?
BDD
Where is this airline, or airlines you speak of?
BDD
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Keep in mind that there are no good airlines that hire DECs. If you do come to EK you will be treated like ****e and forget about any promises or contracts they may offer. They are made to be broken.
Speaking of broken so will you be. 90 plus hours in the middle of the night and then to top it off you will have to babysit a DEC that took your job. Even longer to upgrade. Are you sure you want Emirates?
Speaking of broken so will you be. 90 plus hours in the middle of the night and then to top it off you will have to babysit a DEC that took your job. Even longer to upgrade. Are you sure you want Emirates?
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One thing that I don't get about this whole argument is that several instructors have posted that the pass rate was high for DEC's, I think it was mentioned that around a 20% failure rate? So 8 out of 10 DEC's pass their training and are currently on the line, if that is the case then in comparison to the pass rate of other companies that are hiring DEC's the program at EK has been a success. 80% pass rate is pretty good actually, far from being the disaster some are characterizing it as, so why wouldn't they implement a policy that has been very successful for them in the past.
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To be fair Oakape, if DEC's had to have as detailed a knowledge of the OMA, that our F/O's have to have, to pass their pre command course interview, I am sure no DEC would have a hope off getting through a command course here.
I personally have no problems with the concept of DEC but believe the same yardstick to measure competence for the position should be used.
Some of the in flight incidents and ASR's raised from a small minority of our DEC's would raise the hair on the back of your neck! I do believe that several were fired as a result of these incidents. I believe that this has been the big reason for the company's reluctance, so far, to proceed down the DEC avenue again. That and the belief they'd screw themselves for recruiting the F/Os that they'd still need.
They aren't stupid, they'll do what they have to, to ensure they have drivers for the airframes they have arriving.
I personally have no problems with the concept of DEC but believe the same yardstick to measure competence for the position should be used.
Some of the in flight incidents and ASR's raised from a small minority of our DEC's would raise the hair on the back of your neck! I do believe that several were fired as a result of these incidents. I believe that this has been the big reason for the company's reluctance, so far, to proceed down the DEC avenue again. That and the belief they'd screw themselves for recruiting the F/Os that they'd still need.
They aren't stupid, they'll do what they have to, to ensure they have drivers for the airframes they have arriving.
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I agree that it would not be possible to have the required knowledge of the OMA expected of our upgrading F/O's at the start of their Command training but I do believe they should be able to pass a standard upgrade interview before being cleared to line by the end of their training, if we are to have the same yardstick of competency.
There were some, and I know it's not fair to tar all with the same brush, that relied on their F/O's to provide them with the knowledge of proceedures and route knowledge to get through the flight without incident. I think this is where a large chunk of the greivances have occurred in the past.
There were some, and I know it's not fair to tar all with the same brush, that relied on their F/O's to provide them with the knowledge of proceedures and route knowledge to get through the flight without incident. I think this is where a large chunk of the greivances have occurred in the past.
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Did you get the memo?
Sorry guys/gals but this swaying back and forth about DECs has been done to death.
(Yes I know if I dont want to read about go to another thread
)
But if you have not been included into the "DEC memo" mailing list then they who are simply dont care what you think. So save the blood pressure and stick to things you can actually DO something about.
OK coat, hat, door, cheers and good luck!
(Yes I know if I dont want to read about go to another thread
)But if you have not been included into the "DEC memo" mailing list then they who are simply dont care what you think. So save the blood pressure and stick to things you can actually DO something about.
OK coat, hat, door, cheers and good luck!
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"you will have to babysit a DEC"
Hi guys
LHR RAIN:
I 'm actually rated A340/A330 TRE/TRI both aircraft, before flying B747 with + 19800 hours (Capt 17000 and 13500 WB Captain) and working for an Asian Airline
I'm willing to join to EK if they decide to open DEC
Do you think LHR RAIN you are going to baby sitting me?
If EK open DEC, for sure I will try to join it, and you will be sitting on my right as my F/O, just that, F/O, and perhaps, if you change your mind and becomes more polite, dear LHR RAIN, perhaps you will be not only my F/O but my partner, my mate, my friend as well. This is what a crew concept is, no what you have in your mind.
take care
LHR RAIN:
I 'm actually rated A340/A330 TRE/TRI both aircraft, before flying B747 with + 19800 hours (Capt 17000 and 13500 WB Captain) and working for an Asian Airline
I'm willing to join to EK if they decide to open DEC
Do you think LHR RAIN you are going to baby sitting me?
If EK open DEC, for sure I will try to join it, and you will be sitting on my right as my F/O, just that, F/O, and perhaps, if you change your mind and becomes more polite, dear LHR RAIN, perhaps you will be not only my F/O but my partner, my mate, my friend as well. This is what a crew concept is, no what you have in your mind.
take care