Emirates going with DEC
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Camel-Lot
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No suitably qualified FOs my #$$. Just eliminate the arbitrary “2500 hrs Emirates operating time and 3 years service” requirement for FOs to upgrade.
EK has a lot of highly experienced FOs with airline command experience. No matter how many EK hours & years of service they may have, it’s still more than any DEC can bring in the door.
Yes, yes, . . . I know. Every FO on property knew the rule when he joined. They also knew EK changes those rules all the time. I’m not knocking DECs. I’m contending EK hasn’t tried hard enough to promote from within.
EK has a lot of highly experienced FOs with airline command experience. No matter how many EK hours & years of service they may have, it’s still more than any DEC can bring in the door.
Yes, yes, . . . I know. Every FO on property knew the rule when he joined. They also knew EK changes those rules all the time. I’m not knocking DECs. I’m contending EK hasn’t tried hard enough to promote from within.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there are so many qualified FO's why do so many fail the upgrade? Don't just blame it the training. Know for a fact that it was said, by recruiting and training, that we are going to have problems upgrading these guys when they were hired and was vetoed
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of interest, who are "these guys" you are referring too?
If they are failing the upgrade in statistically significant numbers, it begs the question who or whom deemed that these individuals are suitable and capable of passing the upgrade.
It's also worth understanding if there is a specific sylabus in place, and are these individuals devoting their time into understanding the areas that the training department, company, and GCAA deem necessary to become a competent commander?
If they are failing the upgrade in statistically significant numbers, it begs the question who or whom deemed that these individuals are suitable and capable of passing the upgrade.
It's also worth understanding if there is a specific sylabus in place, and are these individuals devoting their time into understanding the areas that the training department, company, and GCAA deem necessary to become a competent commander?
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Camel-Lot
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“We can offer our flight crew career progression. If you come here as a first officer, providing you meet all the requirements in terms of ability & experience, then the time to upgrade, the time to captaincy is relatively short. It’s probably the shortest of any airline in the world now.”
Captain Alan Stealey
Emirates Flight Deck Crew Careers recruiting DVD
Copyright 2010
I missed the bit about hiring career FOs who would have trouble upgrading. It’s good to know the recruiting & training departments featured in that DVD actually fought for the principles they stated.
As far as experienced FOs, I specifically mentioned “experienced FOs with airline command experience”. They passed upgrade somewhere and managed not to crash. Seems likely they could do the same at EK.
The funny part is, I fully understand the need for DECs under certain circumstances. In fact I’d like to run out my career as one after leaving here. As it stands today though I just happen to believe that Emirates has a lot of good FOs (including many without previous command experience) who given the chance would make good captains.
Captain Alan Stealey
Emirates Flight Deck Crew Careers recruiting DVD
Copyright 2010
I missed the bit about hiring career FOs who would have trouble upgrading. It’s good to know the recruiting & training departments featured in that DVD actually fought for the principles they stated.
As far as experienced FOs, I specifically mentioned “experienced FOs with airline command experience”. They passed upgrade somewhere and managed not to crash. Seems likely they could do the same at EK.
The funny part is, I fully understand the need for DECs under certain circumstances. In fact I’d like to run out my career as one after leaving here. As it stands today though I just happen to believe that Emirates has a lot of good FOs (including many without previous command experience) who given the chance would make good captains.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: >FL310
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MC,
What you say is true. But that is exactly what is taking place. "Suitably qualified" f.o.s are being vetted. Think what you would consider a suitably qualified f.o. with your entire family onboard. Not here, but there are potential problems with "rushing" f.o.s to captain when there hasn't been enough experience. This is a highly charged subject at any airline.
What you say is true. But that is exactly what is taking place. "Suitably qualified" f.o.s are being vetted. Think what you would consider a suitably qualified f.o. with your entire family onboard. Not here, but there are potential problems with "rushing" f.o.s to captain when there hasn't been enough experience. This is a highly charged subject at any airline.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: On Earth
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
:As far as experienced FOs, I specifically mentioned “experienced FOs with airline command experience”. They passed upgrade somewhere and managed not to crash. Seems likely they could do the same at EK.
I am not sure whether you are a trainer or not. From your post I presume that you are not (please I do not intend to be sarcastic by this comment) as I am more than certain that you wouldnt have posted such a comment.
After doing training for a number of years both in house and on freelance I can say that the standard I have seen varies from shocking to not having anything to say during the debrief. I would not want my wife and kids flying with such 'captains'.That's how appalling some people out there are. One wonders how they managed to pass the selection process (most probably they were sweet talkers and bull**** their way around) when they joined.
I have seen guys arrive for their upgrade training unprepared and very complacent. Their decisions in the sim are uncomprehending. F/O's about to upgrade spend ALL their cruise time reading newspapers and magazines.
MagicCarpet,
This was all argued in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. FOs with over the EK min requirement were bypassed and DECs were hired. There was no secret made of this. If you did any research you would have easily found this out. Many new joiners read that history and then expressed what a bunch of moaners those writing it were.
So since you joined knowing this, how can you have a problem with it now? Are you a more "special" case than the FOs that were shafted?
Up until recently FOs on the BUS have been bypassed by more junior FOs on the Boeing , you knew about that, did you take a stand to protest that?
Taking it that a wide body command at many flag carrier airlines will take a lifetime, the 8+yrs for a new joiner today would still be considered quick. Its just a pity he will have to work the Ryan air roster while he waits.
I am not saying that I agree with the whole DEC thing. However, nothing has changed since any "present day" any FO joined.
The Don
.
This was all argued in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. FOs with over the EK min requirement were bypassed and DECs were hired. There was no secret made of this. If you did any research you would have easily found this out. Many new joiners read that history and then expressed what a bunch of moaners those writing it were.
So since you joined knowing this, how can you have a problem with it now? Are you a more "special" case than the FOs that were shafted?
Up until recently FOs on the BUS have been bypassed by more junior FOs on the Boeing , you knew about that, did you take a stand to protest that?
Taking it that a wide body command at many flag carrier airlines will take a lifetime, the 8+yrs for a new joiner today would still be considered quick. Its just a pity he will have to work the Ryan air roster while he waits.
I am not saying that I agree with the whole DEC thing. However, nothing has changed since any "present day" any FO joined.
The Don
.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Camel-Lot
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My comments were about the min hours and time at EK. Management already dropped it from 3000 hrs to 2500 two months ago, so that particular goalpost already has wheels. I simply suggested moving it further, because I believe Emirates has done a good job of hiring many qualified FOs who will make good captains.
No, I don’t think unqualified slacker FOs should be upgraded. Everyone I have flown & trained with at EK has been first rate. Maybe I have been lucky.
Yes, I agree that DECs are needed sometimes. Remember, being a DEC elsewhere is my goal.
Yes, I did protest A330 FOs not being able to fleet transfer to the 777 to upgrade faster. I do it every chance I get. That reminds me, I’m about due for a rant on that issue.
No, I don’t think I’m special. I take my shafting right along with everyone else.
Yes, the quip about not crashing was a joke.
Guess this topic really is a raw nerve. I even pissed off the Don!
No, I don’t think unqualified slacker FOs should be upgraded. Everyone I have flown & trained with at EK has been first rate. Maybe I have been lucky.
Yes, I agree that DECs are needed sometimes. Remember, being a DEC elsewhere is my goal.
Yes, I did protest A330 FOs not being able to fleet transfer to the 777 to upgrade faster. I do it every chance I get. That reminds me, I’m about due for a rant on that issue.
No, I don’t think I’m special. I take my shafting right along with everyone else.
Yes, the quip about not crashing was a joke.
Guess this topic really is a raw nerve. I even pissed off the Don!
Sit,
You might want to honestly think about your posting style and content if you are upset by the likes of flion's post. You are quick on the insult (as you just did TO flion) and just as quick to take offence. It makes combativness on the part of anyone engaging you pretty much inevitable.
I did not defend the DEC policy (though exactley why it would be "not smart", as what you or I think of it isn't going to change a thing) but was counterng OzA380s assertion that EK was "Breaking it's promise" as it never made one,and pointing out that, due to poor planning or whatever, DECs MAY be inevitable (though I am now expecting this to be YET ANOTHER beat-up, as I believe they are simply looking at taking on a few experienced trainers. That would be what, six hysterical threads in the last few years, NONE of which came to fruition?)
BTW, what do you mean it is "now" in the OMA- it always has been in one form or another.
You might want to honestly think about your posting style and content if you are upset by the likes of flion's post. You are quick on the insult (as you just did TO flion) and just as quick to take offence. It makes combativness on the part of anyone engaging you pretty much inevitable.
I did not defend the DEC policy (though exactley why it would be "not smart", as what you or I think of it isn't going to change a thing) but was counterng OzA380s assertion that EK was "Breaking it's promise" as it never made one,and pointing out that, due to poor planning or whatever, DECs MAY be inevitable (though I am now expecting this to be YET ANOTHER beat-up, as I believe they are simply looking at taking on a few experienced trainers. That would be what, six hysterical threads in the last few years, NONE of which came to fruition?)
BTW, what do you mean it is "now" in the OMA- it always has been in one form or another.
Yet, once again I found one point in your post that was clearly wrong. It HAS NOT always been in the OMA that DEC's could be hired ahead of suitable F/O's. The OMA explicitly stated that only if no suitable F/O's were already working here, would EK resort to hiring DEC's. Yet they hired DEC's in spite of disregarding their own policy.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My goodness Sittingidly, you are an extremely verbose and arrogant fellow!
I, like Flion, believe you need to be on some form of medication as your rants on these forums appear to show some form of paranoia or mental illness.
For your information, EK management have always held and used, when they deemed necessary, the right to employ DECs.
While I might agree that they sometimes do things that are less than agreeable to the pilot group as a whole, your arrogant supposition that they are all stupid and that only you understand the whole situation, clearly paints you as the stupid one, not them!
I for one have had an absolute gutsful of your gibberish on these forums and I shall now use the ignore tool to prevent any more stomach acid generated by your twaddle.
End of my rant. Sorry guys
I, like Flion, believe you need to be on some form of medication as your rants on these forums appear to show some form of paranoia or mental illness.
For your information, EK management have always held and used, when they deemed necessary, the right to employ DECs.
While I might agree that they sometimes do things that are less than agreeable to the pilot group as a whole, your arrogant supposition that they are all stupid and that only you understand the whole situation, clearly paints you as the stupid one, not them!
I for one have had an absolute gutsful of your gibberish on these forums and I shall now use the ignore tool to prevent any more stomach acid generated by your twaddle.
End of my rant. Sorry guys
Last edited by kiwi; 14th Feb 2012 at 05:25.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: the ridge where the west commences
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This message is hidden because sittingidly is on your ignore list.
Been using this as a filter for spittle-flecked hysteria for a year or so now. Highly recommended
Dunno about that Varmint, it didn't stop the present FOs from joining.
the Don
Ps. Whats Ansett?
the Don
Ps. Whats Ansett?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ps. Whats Ansett?
