Saying your Squawk code.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saying your Squawk code.
Hey boys and girls, I don't know where this got started but saying your squawk code when changing frequency's is NOT required!!! Neither is saying what position you are at or going to!!!
From the Middle East to most places in Europe you are under radar coverage. The controller knows your code, where you're at and where you are direct to. So lets just stick with what is required.
Call sign and altitude.
Cheers.
From the Middle East to most places in Europe you are under radar coverage. The controller knows your code, where you're at and where you are direct to. So lets just stick with what is required.
Call sign and altitude.
Cheers.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Your nearest Marriott
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Often get asked our squawk code when checking in with a new station. Especially in Cairo FIR, which is radar controlled. Often in Riyadh FIR which is radar controlled, and even Bahrain FIR when its really busy. So one doesn't need to mention it when checking in, but just because its a radar environment, doesn't mean the controller might not require it at some stage.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I get asked for a wind check occasionally too, it doesn't mean I tell every controller the wind.
If they want the squawk code they can ask for it. I flew from the UK to AUH today thru Iraq and Bahrain and didn't say or was never asked my code once.
If they want the squawk code they can ask for it. I flew from the UK to AUH today thru Iraq and Bahrain and didn't say or was never asked my code once.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: A few degrees South
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Checking in with the UAE, you better stick to callsign, and FL, or passing and cleared level.
Although recently they also get busy with the" one one thousand, eleven thousand" thing, which I never got straight.
Although recently they also get busy with the" one one thousand, eleven thousand" thing, which I never got straight.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's technical, but between certain units we are required to identify you, and other units we are not. eg between UAE and Bahrain, no need for ident. Between Bahrain and Kuwait, ident required. And it is enforced by the 'higher ups'.
Ideally, pilots would know when to include the squawk with check in. However, it's not reasonable to expect that as the rules of wherefors and whys are pretty stupid. So, Togalk, if guys want to say their squawk at every change, let them. It actually helps us when busy because we don't have to go back and ask for the ident or 'say squawk'.
If you are bored and want to know why: The agreement between Bahrain and Kuwait does not require radar link sharing, it is just a 'nice to have' so it is not guaranteed. Just because it is functioning 99.9% of the time doesnt matter. Kuwait may turn off their radar at any time without telling anyone else, and Bahrain can only see inbound traffic from Jeddah/Riyadh via the Kuwait link. However, the overlapping covering of each others radars in UAE and Bahrain means permanent and constant radar handoffs.
Ideally, pilots would know when to include the squawk with check in. However, it's not reasonable to expect that as the rules of wherefors and whys are pretty stupid. So, Togalk, if guys want to say their squawk at every change, let them. It actually helps us when busy because we don't have to go back and ask for the ident or 'say squawk'.
If you are bored and want to know why: The agreement between Bahrain and Kuwait does not require radar link sharing, it is just a 'nice to have' so it is not guaranteed. Just because it is functioning 99.9% of the time doesnt matter. Kuwait may turn off their radar at any time without telling anyone else, and Bahrain can only see inbound traffic from Jeddah/Riyadh via the Kuwait link. However, the overlapping covering of each others radars in UAE and Bahrain means permanent and constant radar handoffs.
Last edited by ferris; 13th Dec 2011 at 00:01.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One thought, could it come from the large stream of Latin American pilots that came to the M.E over the past +/-2 years? (not meant negative, just a different way of operating in that region compared to the M.E.)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ME
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you serious? Adding to the congestion?
How many flights do you have flying over Europe at any given moment?
And how often do any ATC controllers over Europe ask for your squawk code when checking in with them? Almost never.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How many flights do it? Only the Middle East and Indian carriers do it!! Thats why I started this post in the first place.
Jeppesen Air Traffic Management 4.11.3 Radiotelphony Procedures for Air-Ground Voice Communication Channel Changeover
When so prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority, the initial call to an ATC unit after a change of air-ground voice communication shall contain the following elements:
a. designation of station being called;
b. call sign;
c. level, including passing and cleared levels if not maintaining the cleared level;
d. speed, if assigned by ATC.
Like i said earlier I get asked for a wind check OCCASIONALLY so does it mean I should just decide on my own to tell every controller the wind? Its NOT required DONT say it!!!
The guys here have a hard enough time just doing basic radio airmanship. Like waiting a few seconds after switching frequencies before talking, or saying your passing and cleared flight levels. Lets not confuse them any more.
CR is correct, adding your own little thing like saying "The" Emirates, or "THE" Etihad or saying your squawk just adds to the congestion.
Jeppesen Air Traffic Management 4.11.3 Radiotelphony Procedures for Air-Ground Voice Communication Channel Changeover
When so prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority, the initial call to an ATC unit after a change of air-ground voice communication shall contain the following elements:
a. designation of station being called;
b. call sign;
c. level, including passing and cleared levels if not maintaining the cleared level;
d. speed, if assigned by ATC.
Like i said earlier I get asked for a wind check OCCASIONALLY so does it mean I should just decide on my own to tell every controller the wind? Its NOT required DONT say it!!!
The guys here have a hard enough time just doing basic radio airmanship. Like waiting a few seconds after switching frequencies before talking, or saying your passing and cleared flight levels. Lets not confuse them any more.
CR is correct, adding your own little thing like saying "The" Emirates, or "THE" Etihad or saying your squawk just adds to the congestion.
Last edited by Togalk; 13th Dec 2011 at 09:06.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And, is it necessary to give callsign on every transmission? Establish comms, yes. Two way established, not necessary. When handed over after a long period of two way, is it necessary again ? My CAP 21 well worn & after 38 years. I thought I knew it all but got a right old chewing out on yesterday's Line Check ! ATC told me " Continue now with.....on......." I kept saying, for example, 'Frankfurt on ......, cheers mate, have a good'n". Oh and finally, Checker admonished me for continually saying "Roger, wilco". He told me that "Roger " means, I understand & will comply. "Wilco" means I will comply. So, I was saying, in effect, " I understand & will comply, I will comply", followed by a unruly "Cheers mate, have a good'n". Oh dear. Nearly grounded for R/T refresher Training. Think the flying went ok though !
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of us fly to 6 continents with different ATC wants and wishes....some more picky than others.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: somewhere in the sky
Age: 54
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its NOT required, DONT say it!!!
He told me that "Roger " means, I understand & will comply. "Wilco" means I will comply
Roger: I have received your message..ONLY received it!
Wilco: I have understood your message and will comply with it!
Now your Checker is the one who should be grounded for R/T!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Too far from the equator
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just left the ME and know that many controllers ask you to confirm your squawk ( not UAE I hasten to add ) . When you are tired it is just easier to say it . Perhaps the various ATCs could agree on this procedure ?
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Say Squark and verify level" whilst wobbling one's head............every bleeping freq change
But if you want peeps to stop clogging up the airwaves can we PLEASE stop the Salaams, Giddays, Morning, Checkin' in, etc etc etc and any other polite HOO HA.
At least a squark code has some point!
Coat , hat , door!
But if you want peeps to stop clogging up the airwaves can we PLEASE stop the Salaams, Giddays, Morning, Checkin' in, etc etc etc and any other polite HOO HA.
At least a squark code has some point!
Coat , hat , door!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: alcatraz
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are all so concerned by these minor RT points or inaccuracies I suggest you get a hobby or a stiff drink!!
Who cares - you are making the job harder than it is!! (possibly less enjoyable if you are a check airman and this is the ****e you debrief about)
Saying G'day, Morning, evenings salams whatever is great.
If you are more worried about RT procedures because some pilots say the squark to eliminate certain FIR stations asking it in the next call, get a life a I say. Clogging up the frequency? I think not, your aircraft will not stop flying if you cannot make a call to the appropriate state at a boundary crossing due to congestion!!! They'll get too you eventually.
Is this what flying has come down too? Get a life and enjoy aviation for what we started out to to, fly, and enjoy the craft we work hard at!!
I know the Aussie's and Kiwi's are pedantic about RT but at the end of the day with so many nationalities flying around the middle east does it really matter if squark is stated....
Who cares - you are making the job harder than it is!! (possibly less enjoyable if you are a check airman and this is the ****e you debrief about)
Saying G'day, Morning, evenings salams whatever is great.
If you are more worried about RT procedures because some pilots say the squark to eliminate certain FIR stations asking it in the next call, get a life a I say. Clogging up the frequency? I think not, your aircraft will not stop flying if you cannot make a call to the appropriate state at a boundary crossing due to congestion!!! They'll get too you eventually.
Is this what flying has come down too? Get a life and enjoy aviation for what we started out to to, fly, and enjoy the craft we work hard at!!
I know the Aussie's and Kiwi's are pedantic about RT but at the end of the day with so many nationalities flying around the middle east does it really matter if squark is stated....
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of the border
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so next time Bahrain asks me for my squawk because I didn't give it to them on first contact - I'll refuse and say TOGALK told me not too because I'm clogging the freq
Answer: "It is not required but it helps..." so why not?
Why do people insist on requesting the Flight Level when asking for ATC clearance away from homebase? Very few Ground Delivery units around the network want to know what it might be - although as we know Dubai does. Why? It's just luck if we get the level we want and Bahrain etc don't seem to know what level we might have requested anyway, so apparently the message is not being passed along either. It just blocks the Delivery frequency with unnecessary verbage. If other ATC units don't want it why does Dubai? And when will Dubai get PDC/DCL?
And then there's Dubai Approach inbound...