EK pilots flying while sick.
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EK pilots flying while sick.
Safety is our highest priority....
A while back a bunch of pilots were denied an Airbus to 777 transition because of "attendance" issues. They basically had too many sick days. It did not matter if the sick days were certified by a doctor or not.
The fact that those transitions never happened is beside the point.
I am only one pilot out of approximately 3000 and I personally know 3 pilots who told me they went flying when they shouldn't have because they were sick. Two were FO's who didn't dare to call sick as their upgrade interview was coming up and one Capt who was worried his 380 transition might be delayed.
Add a little math to that and you end up with lots of sick pilots flying.
EK has reduced the sick rate by punishing for calling in sick. It wouldn't matter if you had a cold, broke a leg, had an accident or were too fatigued. Doctors note or not, too many sick days is too many sick days. Nobody elaborates on how much is too many though.
It doesn't matter to EK, as long as the aircraft are flying...even with sick pilots.
Safety comes first,....yeah right.
A while back a bunch of pilots were denied an Airbus to 777 transition because of "attendance" issues. They basically had too many sick days. It did not matter if the sick days were certified by a doctor or not.
The fact that those transitions never happened is beside the point.
I am only one pilot out of approximately 3000 and I personally know 3 pilots who told me they went flying when they shouldn't have because they were sick. Two were FO's who didn't dare to call sick as their upgrade interview was coming up and one Capt who was worried his 380 transition might be delayed.
Add a little math to that and you end up with lots of sick pilots flying.
EK has reduced the sick rate by punishing for calling in sick. It wouldn't matter if you had a cold, broke a leg, had an accident or were too fatigued. Doctors note or not, too many sick days is too many sick days. Nobody elaborates on how much is too many though.
It doesn't matter to EK, as long as the aircraft are flying...even with sick pilots.
Safety comes first,....yeah right.
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Sad but very true.
EK is a business in Dubai, with the gloss over of paramount issues such as safety. But that's until you do something they don't like, agree with or book off sick too often etc. An open non jeopardy reporting culture? A big joke. They create fear to obtain desired results.
The clinic is short staffed and it's near impossible to get an appointment. How are we to be certified with no appointments available?? And if you are sick under self certification, it could be taken away at anytime. Paradox. Again, creating fear to obtain their desired results.
They have little regard to FTL's. They factor hours, create annex, do pretty much what they want with the phrase we're all too familiar with... "It's legal".
Those on the 330/340 suffer circadian swaps on a weekly basis, and are suffering the most of any fleet. Ironically, the 380 fleet with all the current issues is a different airline, with most F/O's quietly wondering how they'll reach the 2500 hours for command in the next 3 years with 3 trips a month.
EK is a business in Dubai, with the gloss over of paramount issues such as safety. But that's until you do something they don't like, agree with or book off sick too often etc. An open non jeopardy reporting culture? A big joke. They create fear to obtain desired results.
The clinic is short staffed and it's near impossible to get an appointment. How are we to be certified with no appointments available?? And if you are sick under self certification, it could be taken away at anytime. Paradox. Again, creating fear to obtain their desired results.
They have little regard to FTL's. They factor hours, create annex, do pretty much what they want with the phrase we're all too familiar with... "It's legal".
Those on the 330/340 suffer circadian swaps on a weekly basis, and are suffering the most of any fleet. Ironically, the 380 fleet with all the current issues is a different airline, with most F/O's quietly wondering how they'll reach the 2500 hours for command in the next 3 years with 3 trips a month.
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Safety is our priority..... don't get me started!
Can anyone please tell me why they record as sickness, any fatigue related time off in excess of 2 days? And this from a company that pretends to be interested in dealing with fatigue issues.... if only the fare payers in the back knew the half of it!
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Gentlemen and Ladies,
In my personal experience and I emphasise personal experience, if you are certified by a doc (as I do on every occasion bar none) there is not a problem.
However, I do know of one buddy who has had his authority to self certify sickness removed due to ................his enthusiastic(?
) use of the facility.
This does NOT mean he has to fly sick, it simply means he has to get seen by a doc.
The library of cases where guys have gone on long term sick is large and without exception EK have looked out for them all.
Yes there is a record of your sickness and if a pattern appears, such as always on a Thurs before a weekend off etc then you will be raising some eyebrows somewhere.
Bottom line. If you are unfit to fly call it in but ALWAYS get a doc to rubber stamp it. If you ring the Nurse Advice line they will get you in as now in the Clinic Flt Crew take priority over everyone.
Simples really.
In my personal experience and I emphasise personal experience, if you are certified by a doc (as I do on every occasion bar none) there is not a problem.
However, I do know of one buddy who has had his authority to self certify sickness removed due to ................his enthusiastic(?
) use of the facility.This does NOT mean he has to fly sick, it simply means he has to get seen by a doc.
The library of cases where guys have gone on long term sick is large and without exception EK have looked out for them all.
Yes there is a record of your sickness and if a pattern appears, such as always on a Thurs before a weekend off etc then you will be raising some eyebrows somewhere.
Bottom line. If you are unfit to fly call it in but ALWAYS get a doc to rubber stamp it. If you ring the Nurse Advice line they will get you in as now in the Clinic Flt Crew take priority over everyone.
Simples really.
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Alwayz,
I know that guys on long term sickness are well looked after, even some that lost their licence. All credit to EK for that.
However, fact is that people were denied a 777 transition due to "attendance", and that sick notes from doc's were not considered. It was a pure nr of days. And trust me, it wasn't many.
It was that specific fleet's decision to apply that random non existing rule.
Result now is that some people are worried about calling sick because they fear that non existing rule might be applied again.
There is no issue with calling sick.
If you're sick you don't fly, indeed simple.
However, it was shown that it might be held against you in a later stage if and when they see fit.
It doesn't hold me back from calling sick when needed, but it does for some people for whatever, good or bad, reason.
That's all.
I know that guys on long term sickness are well looked after, even some that lost their licence. All credit to EK for that.
However, fact is that people were denied a 777 transition due to "attendance", and that sick notes from doc's were not considered. It was a pure nr of days. And trust me, it wasn't many.
It was that specific fleet's decision to apply that random non existing rule.
Result now is that some people are worried about calling sick because they fear that non existing rule might be applied again.
There is no issue with calling sick.
If you're sick you don't fly, indeed simple.
However, it was shown that it might be held against you in a later stage if and when they see fit.
It doesn't hold me back from calling sick when needed, but it does for some people for whatever, good or bad, reason.
That's all.
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Speaking of long term illness, you could start a whole new thread about HR's attempts to wangle their way out of paying out the 3 years loss of license insurance in recent months.
Seems the policy is rapidly evolving; if you thought you were clearly covered if you lose your license, you may wish to think again.
For those whose medical is suspended, pending a final decision, EK would appear to be trying to terminate them before their medical is permanently withdrawn, thereby avoiding the need to pay out.
Anecdotally, with the significant increase in flying hours in the past few years, there would appear to be a significant rise in long term medical issues, along with medical suspensions. EK is happy to take the benefit of increased productivity, but wouldn't appear to be prepared to take responsibility for the resulting medical issues.
Seems the policy is rapidly evolving; if you thought you were clearly covered if you lose your license, you may wish to think again.
For those whose medical is suspended, pending a final decision, EK would appear to be trying to terminate them before their medical is permanently withdrawn, thereby avoiding the need to pay out.
Anecdotally, with the significant increase in flying hours in the past few years, there would appear to be a significant rise in long term medical issues, along with medical suspensions. EK is happy to take the benefit of increased productivity, but wouldn't appear to be prepared to take responsibility for the resulting medical issues.
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May be it is just me....
I don't know , may be it is just me that thinks that the very and only reason behind the success of EK and the like is evident: no social responsabilities and related costs, no rules, no laws, no union. Accepting employement in the Persian Gulf is in effect equivalent to giving up all you rights not only as a worker as the UAE is not a signatory country of the ILO treaty, but as human being because they did not sign a vast part of the international treaties on human rights.
They can and will do wathever they want with you. It is in their "culture" that has been abusive for thousand of years. But you cannot really blame them as nobody forced you, individualistic and greedy imbecil looking for a new SUV maybe a cheap slave maid for you wife to make her feel wealthy and looking forward to buy the new Ipad, to sell your self for a few bucks. So please just shut up take an aspirin and go to fooking work.
They can and will do wathever they want with you. It is in their "culture" that has been abusive for thousand of years. But you cannot really blame them as nobody forced you, individualistic and greedy imbecil looking for a new SUV maybe a cheap slave maid for you wife to make her feel wealthy and looking forward to buy the new Ipad, to sell your self for a few bucks. So please just shut up take an aspirin and go to fooking work.
Last edited by Jetaim; 27th Mar 2012 at 16:16.
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You can't really compare EK with Colgan because few if any EK Pilots are allowed to "commute" and you probably get paid 10 times more than a Colgan Pilot so can afford housing etc. Best bit of advice when sick is to call / email your Duty Pilot / Fleet Manager as a back up.
I've never worked in an airline which has a pilot sick record, most levels are low because of your professionalism /positive attitude etc. You will find however they are managing the few and as always the majority have to suffer
I've never worked in an airline which has a pilot sick record, most levels are low because of your professionalism /positive attitude etc. You will find however they are managing the few and as always the majority have to suffer
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Yes punish the entire employee group for the few bad apples that exist in every single company worldwide. This is the classic fear, divide and conquer tactic that EK uses to neuter the pilot group and make sure there is no sense of comaraderie in the group and certainly no chance they would ever put their foot down and finally say enough is enough.
Managers at EK lack the essential skills, ethics and knowledge to do the job properly and, as such, rule by fear and do it because they can due to all the reasons mentioned above. Could there be an easier job in aviation than that of a manager/VP at EK? As long as you are willing to sell your soul to the devil for a few tax free dollars, it is an easy ride for them. They can do whatever they please.
Managers at EK lack the essential skills, ethics and knowledge to do the job properly and, as such, rule by fear and do it because they can due to all the reasons mentioned above. Could there be an easier job in aviation than that of a manager/VP at EK? As long as you are willing to sell your soul to the devil for a few tax free dollars, it is an easy ride for them. They can do whatever they please.
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I have several mates who have had greater than 6 months sick leave during their 4-5 year tenure at EK. All started courses or are about to in the last 6 months, on time with no delay.
The other night I finally flew with one of these elusive guys who has had their upgrade delayed 6 months due to sick leave. Whilst incredibly pissed off with the whole situation, he grudgingly admitted to 'probably having more a few more uncertified sick days in the last 2 years than he should have'.
Sadly, by the fourth beer, the stories he was telling the cute little Aussie GR2 indicated quite a lot more uncertifieds than he initially let on. You do reap what you sow.
The moral of the story? As a wise young captain once said to me, the company allows 7 uncertified sick days per year. So if you're sick, go to the doctor. Save those 7 to help manage your 90+ hour rosters
The other night I finally flew with one of these elusive guys who has had their upgrade delayed 6 months due to sick leave. Whilst incredibly pissed off with the whole situation, he grudgingly admitted to 'probably having more a few more uncertified sick days in the last 2 years than he should have'.
Sadly, by the fourth beer, the stories he was telling the cute little Aussie GR2 indicated quite a lot more uncertifieds than he initially let on. You do reap what you sow.
The moral of the story? As a wise young captain once said to me, the company allows 7 uncertified sick days per year. So if you're sick, go to the doctor. Save those 7 to help manage your 90+ hour rosters
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good ol' fashioned rebellion
Here's the real dirty trick that Emirates pulls on their pilots.
You have a 3am flight, you call in sick 4 hours before departure like a good lil' lad, at 11pm.
They take 2 sick days from you, one for the hour left of the day and the next day.
So essentially, you can only call in sick 3 times a year for a departure between 00-04am. Assuming its true that EK allows 7 uncertified sick days a year before they crucify you.
My previous company was realistic and gave us 8 "PERSONAL" days a year. They understand that pilots have real lives, babysitters cancel, ex-wife is being a bitch, job interviews elsewhere, court dates for alimony, or you're still drunk from the night before...etc etc etc.... You got 24 hours from the time you called. So you called in sick at 11pm, you got 24 hours off until the next 11pm....1 day personal day deducted
Its about time EK fears its pilots for once. Just dream of day when every single pilot dials #2 in protest one morning...
You have a 3am flight, you call in sick 4 hours before departure like a good lil' lad, at 11pm.
They take 2 sick days from you, one for the hour left of the day and the next day.
So essentially, you can only call in sick 3 times a year for a departure between 00-04am. Assuming its true that EK allows 7 uncertified sick days a year before they crucify you.
My previous company was realistic and gave us 8 "PERSONAL" days a year. They understand that pilots have real lives, babysitters cancel, ex-wife is being a bitch, job interviews elsewhere, court dates for alimony, or you're still drunk from the night before...etc etc etc.... You got 24 hours from the time you called. So you called in sick at 11pm, you got 24 hours off until the next 11pm....1 day personal day deducted
Its about time EK fears its pilots for once. Just dream of day when every single pilot dials #2 in protest one morning...
Last edited by pilotday; 28th Mar 2012 at 07:55. Reason: added title
