What happened to security in Kabul if you go tech on a flydubai aircraft
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What happened to security in Kabul if you go tech on a flydubai aircraft
Here are some quotes from flydubai Operations Management:
Date: 08/Nov/2011. Flydubai flight number: FDB304. Aircraft: A6-FDM.
Aircraft went tech due to problem with anti-ice, and with no engineering support available in Kabul.
Due to lack of trust in the procedures put in place for such events, the crew was not comfortable about leaving either the aircraft or the airport.
The company used by flydubai to provide security & assistance to its Kabul flights had left the aircraft.
Whilst they waited onboard, an armed Afghan military squad (Afghans Assume Control of Kabul Airport) boarded the aircraft and then escorted the crew ‘under protest’, at gunpoint, off the aircraft and out of the airport.
This resulted in the crew, which consisted of one Captain (male), 1 F/O (female), 4 cabin Crew (females) being abandoned, in the middle of a war zone. Then having to find their own unsecured transport, to an unsecured hotel, in the middle of the night, in Kabul.... WTF ?!!!
The fact that there was no kidnap, or injuries, or loss of life, sustained by this crew, was purely a matter of shear luck!
Flydubai management has consistently told its crews that a foolproof security plan was in place for such events.
But, the one time that it was needed, it completely fell apart. So which fool put that plan in place and why are we not surprised at the outcome?!
The concerns of all flydubai’s aircrew have now been proved 100% right regarding the legitimacy of such plans put in place by the Manager Safety & Security. The competence of the Manager Safety & Security was always in doubt, but now his incompetence has been proven beyond all doubt!
To reestablish confidence in Safety & Security department, and for having put its aircrew in a life threatening situation, flydubai's Manager Safety & Security should be fired on the spot !
- "The safety and security of our Employees is and will always be upmost in our mind, if we believe the situation to be unsafe we would cease all operations."
- "We deeply care about your safety and welfare and will apply the upmost diligence and attention to that end. Be assured we will constantly monitor the dynamic environment and do what is needed to protect YOU—the most valuable asset of flydubai."
- "We deeply care about your safety and welfare."
Date: 08/Nov/2011. Flydubai flight number: FDB304. Aircraft: A6-FDM.
Aircraft went tech due to problem with anti-ice, and with no engineering support available in Kabul.
Due to lack of trust in the procedures put in place for such events, the crew was not comfortable about leaving either the aircraft or the airport.
The company used by flydubai to provide security & assistance to its Kabul flights had left the aircraft.
Whilst they waited onboard, an armed Afghan military squad (Afghans Assume Control of Kabul Airport) boarded the aircraft and then escorted the crew ‘under protest’, at gunpoint, off the aircraft and out of the airport.
This resulted in the crew, which consisted of one Captain (male), 1 F/O (female), 4 cabin Crew (females) being abandoned, in the middle of a war zone. Then having to find their own unsecured transport, to an unsecured hotel, in the middle of the night, in Kabul.... WTF ?!!!
The fact that there was no kidnap, or injuries, or loss of life, sustained by this crew, was purely a matter of shear luck!
Flydubai management has consistently told its crews that a foolproof security plan was in place for such events.
But, the one time that it was needed, it completely fell apart. So which fool put that plan in place and why are we not surprised at the outcome?!
The concerns of all flydubai’s aircrew have now been proved 100% right regarding the legitimacy of such plans put in place by the Manager Safety & Security. The competence of the Manager Safety & Security was always in doubt, but now his incompetence has been proven beyond all doubt!
To reestablish confidence in Safety & Security department, and for having put its aircrew in a life threatening situation, flydubai's Manager Safety & Security should be fired on the spot !
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All it does highlight is that the security measures put in place for such an event occuring are not good enough and sub standard, especially for a known war zone!! I think they have been lucky so far and have become a little complacent flying into such places.
Maybe a PBS will invite those that like to go to such places, possibly involving a little extra pay, leaving the rest to do other things. Common sense and a reality check is needed.
Maybe a PBS will invite those that like to go to such places, possibly involving a little extra pay, leaving the rest to do other things. Common sense and a reality check is needed.
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I won`t be applying to flydubai now or anytime in the future given their total disregard for the safety of their crews. What a miserable example of how not to run an airline. You are either desparate or foolhardy to want to fly there.
Welcome to the bottom of the food chain.
Even Ryanair would at least see that basic security was achieved . ( for a fee of course ! )
Welcome to the bottom of the food chain.
Even Ryanair would at least see that basic security was achieved . ( for a fee of course ! )
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Royston Vasey & I.R.PIRATE: please do not make light of this scenario.
For those of us who are forced (bonded) to endure it, your comments are not welcome, not funny, and detract from the serious problem that exists within flydubai in terms of its Flight Safety Department's complete lack of credibility at its top most level.
latetonite: the 'climate of fear' engendered by flydubai's Manager Safety & Security is such that few, if any, pilots within the company are prepared to show any flexibility outside of the literal confines of what's written within the MEL / CDL, and that's probably a very good thing given the circumstances, verging upon being belligerently so. You might call it a "damned if you do, and damned you if you don't" mentality, though let me repeat again the message about the 'climate of fear' engendered by flydubai's Manager Safety & Security.
In this particular Kabul instance the Captain (who I personally know is a TOP GUY !!!) correctly stuck to the official line within the MEL and, as a result, the aircraft returned to stand and was grounded (Kabul or not).
That aside, the really worryingly aspect of this is that the much vaulted & promoted (by FZ management) procedure for an AOG in Kabul (a war zone by any other name!), being something put in place by flydubai's Manager Safety & Security, proved (much as expected by the vast majority of flydubai's aircrew) to be both an appalling & very dangerous failure!!!
That none of flydubai's aircrew are surprised at this outcome speaks volumes about the lack of ability & integrity with which they view the Manager Safety & Security, and it's almost an insult to integrity to suggest he should resign over this (as he never has had any integrity!). That said, if he doesn't tender his resignation over this, Gaith really should sack him!
As a result of this event alone, the integrity of flydubai's Safety & Security Department will remain damaged beyond all recognition for a very long time to come, and especially so all the time that that man (WDA) is at its helm, he is a disgrace to the the title of Safety & Security Manager!
For those of us who are forced (bonded) to endure it, your comments are not welcome, not funny, and detract from the serious problem that exists within flydubai in terms of its Flight Safety Department's complete lack of credibility at its top most level.
latetonite: the 'climate of fear' engendered by flydubai's Manager Safety & Security is such that few, if any, pilots within the company are prepared to show any flexibility outside of the literal confines of what's written within the MEL / CDL, and that's probably a very good thing given the circumstances, verging upon being belligerently so. You might call it a "damned if you do, and damned you if you don't" mentality, though let me repeat again the message about the 'climate of fear' engendered by flydubai's Manager Safety & Security.
In this particular Kabul instance the Captain (who I personally know is a TOP GUY !!!) correctly stuck to the official line within the MEL and, as a result, the aircraft returned to stand and was grounded (Kabul or not).
That aside, the really worryingly aspect of this is that the much vaulted & promoted (by FZ management) procedure for an AOG in Kabul (a war zone by any other name!), being something put in place by flydubai's Manager Safety & Security, proved (much as expected by the vast majority of flydubai's aircrew) to be both an appalling & very dangerous failure!!!
That none of flydubai's aircrew are surprised at this outcome speaks volumes about the lack of ability & integrity with which they view the Manager Safety & Security, and it's almost an insult to integrity to suggest he should resign over this (as he never has had any integrity!). That said, if he doesn't tender his resignation over this, Gaith really should sack him!
As a result of this event alone, the integrity of flydubai's Safety & Security Department will remain damaged beyond all recognition for a very long time to come, and especially so all the time that that man (WDA) is at its helm, he is a disgrace to the the title of Safety & Security Manager!
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IR PIRATE,
Are you seriously suggesting that the crew would have been worse off in Johannesburg? Whilst parts of it are very violent and you would have to be completely daft to visit, there are many other safe and pleasant areas to go. Admittedly you should be pretty streetwise but aside from that no real problems. After all, EK can fill two 773 and an A388 every day so people want to go.
Kabul on the other hand......
Do you read the news? Are you aware of the ongoing security situation there? Would you prefer to stop in Kabul than Joburg? If you would then go right ahead because I know where I and probably everyone else on this forum, website and world would rather be!
I hope that a lot is learnt about this very unfortunate episode very quickly. Either somewhere as safe as Fort Knox (USBD - Wikipedia) with as much security and protection is found or and rather more hopefully, an aircraft and engineer are dispatched (so we don't get two AOG) to rescue the crew without delay avoiding the need to nightstop.
6000PIC - You might not be the only one.........
Are you seriously suggesting that the crew would have been worse off in Johannesburg? Whilst parts of it are very violent and you would have to be completely daft to visit, there are many other safe and pleasant areas to go. Admittedly you should be pretty streetwise but aside from that no real problems. After all, EK can fill two 773 and an A388 every day so people want to go.
Kabul on the other hand......
Do you read the news? Are you aware of the ongoing security situation there? Would you prefer to stop in Kabul than Joburg? If you would then go right ahead because I know where I and probably everyone else on this forum, website and world would rather be!
I hope that a lot is learnt about this very unfortunate episode very quickly. Either somewhere as safe as Fort Knox (USBD - Wikipedia) with as much security and protection is found or and rather more hopefully, an aircraft and engineer are dispatched (so we don't get two AOG) to rescue the crew without delay avoiding the need to nightstop.
6000PIC - You might not be the only one.........
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So this incident was on the 8th - 5 days ago.
Presumably, despite the evident failings of the safety department, the management have at least done the right thing by apprising the employees of the situation and suspending flights pending the outcome of an investigation?
Presumably, despite the evident failings of the safety department, the management have at least done the right thing by apprising the employees of the situation and suspending flights pending the outcome of an investigation?
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Whoop Whoop Wake Up wrote:
Yes there has been a very vague letter about this from the Chief Pilot a few days ago (with nothing since!), and from where did you get the idea that flydubai has suspended flights to Kabul ?!
So this incident was on the 8th - 5 days ago.
Presumably, despite the evident failings of the safety department, the management have at least done the right thing by apprising the employees of the situation and suspending flights pending the outcome of an investigation?
Presumably, despite the evident failings of the safety department, the management have at least done the right thing by apprising the employees of the situation and suspending flights pending the outcome of an investigation?
Last edited by Spit The Dummie; 13th Nov 2011 at 17:42.
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Amdram -
I have lived in Kabul for the last 6 years.
More people die unnatural deaths in JHB than Kabul on any day of the week.
And that is not even mentioning rapes, robberies, muggings, assaults, road accidents...
So Now what??
I have lived in Kabul for the last 6 years.
More people die unnatural deaths in JHB than Kabul on any day of the week.
And that is not even mentioning rapes, robberies, muggings, assaults, road accidents...
So Now what??
Last edited by I.R.PIRATE; 13th Nov 2011 at 18:59.
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I'm with I.R. Pirate on this one... JHB way worse than KBL....
If any of you Flydubai boys/girls go U/S in KAIA, drop me a PM... got enough spare beds in the bomb shelter for the entire crew, and plenty of home brew to go around.
Far far worse places to go AOG compared to Kabul. Most of sub Saharan Africa north of the Limpopo springs to mind.
If any of you Flydubai boys/girls go U/S in KAIA, drop me a PM... got enough spare beds in the bomb shelter for the entire crew, and plenty of home brew to go around.
Far far worse places to go AOG compared to Kabul. Most of sub Saharan Africa north of the Limpopo springs to mind.
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IR PIRATE,
I don't doubt that people die in Johannesburg on a daily basis as you described. I am aware of how dangerous it is but given the choice would rather stop there than Kabul. If you feel safe in Kabul and having lived there for six years I guess you do then good for you. I would wager however that most people given a choice wouldn't choose to go there for any reason.
To whoop whoop, the flights are still
going to Kabul. Not sure they were ever suspended?
I don't doubt that people die in Johannesburg on a daily basis as you described. I am aware of how dangerous it is but given the choice would rather stop there than Kabul. If you feel safe in Kabul and having lived there for six years I guess you do then good for you. I would wager however that most people given a choice wouldn't choose to go there for any reason.
To whoop whoop, the flights are still
going to Kabul. Not sure they were ever suspended?
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Common Sense
For those of us who have learned to survive in the "war zone", use a little common sense. Sit in Kabul where you are a sitting duck, (unless you know how not to act like a sitting duck and will experience a high survival rate), or tanker max fuel and fly lower altitude.
What, not acceptable in my company Op's Man. The you are in the wrong sector of the World. Make it work or die.....that's how it is in the lower tier airlines.
Not about right or wrong, it's all about survival. Unless you are a Flag Carrier in this part of the World, you ain't JACK!
What, not acceptable in my company Op's Man. The you are in the wrong sector of the World. Make it work or die.....that's how it is in the lower tier airlines.
Not about right or wrong, it's all about survival. Unless you are a Flag Carrier in this part of the World, you ain't JACK!
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mmm, so as I thought, SA news is clearly not making it onto the world stage.
Your blinkered view is saddening Amdram.
I used to walk around all over Kabul at night. I would never do that in JHB.
I used to drive with the windows open in Kabul - in JHB I would never do that.
I could go away for weeks from Kabul, knowing my house will not be tampered with. I can't do that in JHB.
I could leave my headset and any valuables in the aircraft in Kabul. In JHB I can never risk doing that.
In Kabul, children play on the streets. In JHB they could never do that.
Catch a wake up.
Your blinkered view is saddening Amdram.
I used to walk around all over Kabul at night. I would never do that in JHB.
I used to drive with the windows open in Kabul - in JHB I would never do that.
I could go away for weeks from Kabul, knowing my house will not be tampered with. I can't do that in JHB.
I could leave my headset and any valuables in the aircraft in Kabul. In JHB I can never risk doing that.
In Kabul, children play on the streets. In JHB they could never do that.
Catch a wake up.
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Good to see thread creep is still alive and well in the ME forum.
Makes you wonder which other parts of Part C and Saftey and Security brief are a complete work of fiction.
Rumor is the D. Spaceman, was unaware the Green Zone was locked down 22-06 each night and that you PPR to get in anyway! Maybe we need to pre-plan our tech stops.
F-C
Makes you wonder which other parts of Part C and Saftey and Security brief are a complete work of fiction.
Rumor is the D. Spaceman, was unaware the Green Zone was locked down 22-06 each night and that you PPR to get in anyway! Maybe we need to pre-plan our tech stops.
F-C
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More people die unnatural deaths in JHB than Kabul on any day of the week.
And that is not even mentioning rapes, robberies, muggings, assaults, road accidents…
And that is not even mentioning rapes, robberies, muggings, assaults, road accidents…
Last edited by three eighty; 14th Nov 2011 at 13:54.
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How do you know there is a 380 pilot in a room?
Anyway, I digress.
My home just happens to be 'near' JHB. Think I am pretty qualified to make the comparison.
Like it or leave it.
Just stop being girls about flying into Kabul. Especially if you don't even intentionally night stop there. There is no need.
Anyway, I digress.
My home just happens to be 'near' JHB. Think I am pretty qualified to make the comparison.
Like it or leave it.
Just stop being girls about flying into Kabul. Especially if you don't even intentionally night stop there. There is no need.
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How do you know there is a 380 pilot in a room?
You now have me stumped on both! So how do you know there is a 380 pilot in the room? Living in Kabul and Johannesburg qualify you to answer that one too?
The Moon is made of Cheese. I know this because I live in Dubai and sometimes Pretoria.
But I too digress...
The fact is, the moon being made of cheese has as much to do with Living in Kabul as South African crime statistics have to do with an airline crew being left to their own devices in a country that even the US army struggles to maintain a semblence of security in.