Has your UK CAA I/R lapsed by more than 7/6/3 years?
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Sincere congratulations Chris - this is huge news! What a breath of fresh air to realize that the CAA has (finally) reacted in such a practical and positive fashion.
This news is going to serve as a reprieve for many of our colleagues and will also significantly reduce the costs which would have been borne if we were to have complied with the 15 month recurrent proficiency which was necessary to avoid the ATO training requirement.
Well done and thank you Sir.
This news is going to serve as a reprieve for many of our colleagues and will also significantly reduce the costs which would have been borne if we were to have complied with the 15 month recurrent proficiency which was necessary to avoid the ATO training requirement.
Well done and thank you Sir.
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Terrific work FM. Top marks to you.
I take it from this it also means that by currently holding say a 777/787 rating on a EASA licence and currently flying the type in the middle east there is now no requirement to do anything other than an EASA LPC once every 3 years to keep it on......or does it stay valid due the third party activity and thus no separate EU test required ???
Thanks again
I take it from this it also means that by currently holding say a 777/787 rating on a EASA licence and currently flying the type in the middle east there is now no requirement to do anything other than an EASA LPC once every 3 years to keep it on......or does it stay valid due the third party activity and thus no separate EU test required ???
Thanks again
Last edited by 8che; 2nd Jun 2013 at 20:42.
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8che, Interesting point that I've chatted to a few pilots about.
2 issues. It seems the UK wants an EASA TRE to do a skills test, however the rest of Europe is still happy to accept 3rd party paperwork for type ratings and IR's, I THINK (I know one authority definitely does it for both parts). The second point is that it is acknowledged by EASA that a multi-pilot type and IR test are one and the same, you can't, for example, just put an A330 on your licence, you need to have a valid IR as well to undertake the skills test. Therefore if they acknowledge our third party IR's, then does it not follow that the same stands for our third party type ratings...?
The Licencing managers I've dealt with at Gatwick have actually done a very good job in listening to our case and then writing this derogation, so I'm going to let the dust settle a wee bit before I run the type rating issue past them. If it is taken up, then the only thing we have to do is an EASA medical and maybe send in your 6 monthly paperwork as proof of recency/currency etc.
I'll get back to you........
2 issues. It seems the UK wants an EASA TRE to do a skills test, however the rest of Europe is still happy to accept 3rd party paperwork for type ratings and IR's, I THINK (I know one authority definitely does it for both parts). The second point is that it is acknowledged by EASA that a multi-pilot type and IR test are one and the same, you can't, for example, just put an A330 on your licence, you need to have a valid IR as well to undertake the skills test. Therefore if they acknowledge our third party IR's, then does it not follow that the same stands for our third party type ratings...?
The Licencing managers I've dealt with at Gatwick have actually done a very good job in listening to our case and then writing this derogation, so I'm going to let the dust settle a wee bit before I run the type rating issue past them. If it is taken up, then the only thing we have to do is an EASA medical and maybe send in your 6 monthly paperwork as proof of recency/currency etc.
I'll get back to you........
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So having one EASA rating expired by more than 3 years while being current on the same rating in an ICAO country should also be recognised and the retake of the full rating not necessary or?
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Well Done!!
Chris, FM,
My thanks to you to be added to what I am sure it is going to be a long list....
For your efforts and time...We all appreciate it!
We await news on type ratings when you have it...
Safe Flying,
Ynot
My thanks to you to be added to what I am sure it is going to be a long list....
For your efforts and time...We all appreciate it!
We await news on type ratings when you have it...
Safe Flying,
Ynot
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FM,
Well done and thank you for all your efforts. Although not at the 7 year mark, I had spoken to one of the European countries quoted in the derogation who accept the 6 monthly paperwork to stay IR and A6-type current. I was in the process of switching EASA states but it looks like I can shelve that and stay with the CAA..!
Great work
Craggs
Well done and thank you for all your efforts. Although not at the 7 year mark, I had spoken to one of the European countries quoted in the derogation who accept the 6 monthly paperwork to stay IR and A6-type current. I was in the process of switching EASA states but it looks like I can shelve that and stay with the CAA..!
Great work
Craggs
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First great job, I guess all the UK CAA license holder will appreciate your determination.
To fuel your next fight to get all the derogations which have been recently implemented across the channel, France has approved on may the 14th a similar derogation with the extension to third country type rating.
National differences from the original FCL-EASA :
Dérogations nationales au réglement européen AIRCREW - Ministčre du Développement durable
Page non trouvée - Ministčre du Développement durable
it's in french unfortunately
It's now possible like it was before on our FCL ATPL to renew our type rating + IR restricted to the A/C registered in the third country we operate, providing the original IR training and check was done in a FCL FTO.
Our French ATPL FCL, are now open for EASA conversion based on the same rule.
I really hope for you guys that your CAA will look at the problem in the same our did.
It sadly seems sometimes that more EU integration means more disintegration !
Good luck
To fuel your next fight to get all the derogations which have been recently implemented across the channel, France has approved on may the 14th a similar derogation with the extension to third country type rating.
National differences from the original FCL-EASA :
Dérogations nationales au réglement européen AIRCREW - Ministčre du Développement durable
Page non trouvée - Ministčre du Développement durable
it's in french unfortunately
It's now possible like it was before on our FCL ATPL to renew our type rating + IR restricted to the A/C registered in the third country we operate, providing the original IR training and check was done in a FCL FTO.
Our French ATPL FCL, are now open for EASA conversion based on the same rule.
I really hope for you guys that your CAA will look at the problem in the same our did.
It sadly seems sometimes that more EU integration means more disintegration !
Good luck
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Tiny bit confused here FM.
I am currently operating on a non EASA but ICAO ATPL with B777 type rating. Previously I operated B744 on a separate non EASA but ICAO ATPL and had the B744 transferred onto my EASA ATPL via LPC at LHR. I do not have B777 on my EASA ATPL.
Question: Will UK CAA (EASA) recognise my IR carried out on B777 on my non EASA licence or will my UK (EASA) IR 'expire' after 7 years?
I am currently operating on a non EASA but ICAO ATPL with B777 type rating. Previously I operated B744 on a separate non EASA but ICAO ATPL and had the B744 transferred onto my EASA ATPL via LPC at LHR. I do not have B777 on my EASA ATPL.
Question: Will UK CAA (EASA) recognise my IR carried out on B777 on my non EASA licence or will my UK (EASA) IR 'expire' after 7 years?
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Provided you've previously been issued a UK IR you can use your non EASA licence IR date of renewal/revalidation for the purpose of renewing/revalidating your EASA IR.
European IR's have 1/5/7 year expiry caveats (I think, without looking at CAP804). What the UK CAA will now look at is the date on your non EASA licence to stipulate what caveat if any applies. Simply put, if you don't have current EASA IR the CAA now look at your non EASA IR date. But you still have to do an LPC/Skills test with an EASA/TRE to be able to exercise the privileges of your EASA IR on your EASA licence. But you don't need to do anything now as long as you maintain your ICAO IR.
Your UK IR is safe based on your 777 IR from abroad...
Full acceptance of Type ratings from abroad without the requirement to do a test with an EASA TRE? Now that's another issue possibly...
Clear as mud? It's hard to explain sometimes. Re read my big post and it should now be clearer.
FM.
European IR's have 1/5/7 year expiry caveats (I think, without looking at CAP804). What the UK CAA will now look at is the date on your non EASA licence to stipulate what caveat if any applies. Simply put, if you don't have current EASA IR the CAA now look at your non EASA IR date. But you still have to do an LPC/Skills test with an EASA/TRE to be able to exercise the privileges of your EASA IR on your EASA licence. But you don't need to do anything now as long as you maintain your ICAO IR.
Your UK IR is safe based on your 777 IR from abroad...
Full acceptance of Type ratings from abroad without the requirement to do a test with an EASA TRE? Now that's another issue possibly...
Clear as mud? It's hard to explain sometimes. Re read my big post and it should now be clearer.
FM.
Last edited by Fart Master; 14th Jun 2013 at 22:28.
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Hi,
The article has finally been published in the Official Records Series 4, #974.
As follows;
Exemption from the Instrument Rating Renewal Requirements of Part-FCL for Holders of UK CAA Issued Licences who hold or have held Third Country Pilot Licences with Instrument Rating Privileges
1) The Civil Aviation Authority (“the CAA”) pursuant to article 14(4) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008 exempts, subject to paragraph 2, any holder of a pilot licence issued by the CAA from the requirements of FCL.625(d) of Annex I to Commission Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011 to pass again the theoretical knowledge examinations in order to renew an instrument rating.
2) This exemption is subject to the following conditions:
a) the pilot shall hold a pilot licence issued by the CAA that previously included a valid instrument rating; and
b) the pilot shall hold or have held within the 7 years preceding the last date on which the instrument rating issued by the CAA was valid, a valid instrument rating, compliant with Annex I to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and included in a pilot licence issued by a State other than the United Kingdom; and
c) a pilot with a current and valid instrument rating issued by another State shall comply with the revalidation requirements of FCL.625(b) and the aircraft category specific requirements for revalidation of the Part-FCL instrument rating; and
d) a pilot who held an instrument rating included in a licence issued by another State that is no longer valid but that instrument rating had been revalidated or renewed within the preceding 7 years shall comply with the renewal requirements of FCL.625(c).
3) This Exemption has effect from 21 May 2013 until the equivalent measures proposed under Article 14(6) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008 are adopted, unless revoked.
C J Whittaker
For the Civil Aviation Authority
21 May 2013
Explanatory note:
The intent of this exemption is that where a pilot holds or has held an Instrument Rating issued by a third country and that rating is compliant with Annex I to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the applicability of FCL.625(b), (c) and (d) may be based on the validity dates of the Instrument Rating issued by that other country.
Where a pilot holds a current and valid Instrument Rating issued by another country, the pilot must pass the IR proficiency check, but is not required to undergo training or to re-pass the theoretical knowledge examinations as specified in FCL.625(d).
Where a pilot held a 3rd country IR that is no longer current and valid but the IR was revalidated or renewed within the 7 years preceding the intended renewal of the UK IR, the pilot shall comply with the renewal requirements of FCL.625 IR(c), but is not required to re-pass the theoretical knowledge examinations as specified in FCL.625(d).
This explanatory note is not part of the exemption.
ORS4 No. 974: Exemption from the Instrument Rating Renewal Requirements of Part-FCL for Holders of UK CAA Issued Licences who hold or have held Third Country Pilot Licences with Instrument Rating Privileges | Publications | About the CAA
Enjoy, I'll get back to you regarding the type rating issues at some point in the future.
FM.
The article has finally been published in the Official Records Series 4, #974.
As follows;
Exemption from the Instrument Rating Renewal Requirements of Part-FCL for Holders of UK CAA Issued Licences who hold or have held Third Country Pilot Licences with Instrument Rating Privileges
1) The Civil Aviation Authority (“the CAA”) pursuant to article 14(4) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008 exempts, subject to paragraph 2, any holder of a pilot licence issued by the CAA from the requirements of FCL.625(d) of Annex I to Commission Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011 to pass again the theoretical knowledge examinations in order to renew an instrument rating.
2) This exemption is subject to the following conditions:
a) the pilot shall hold a pilot licence issued by the CAA that previously included a valid instrument rating; and
b) the pilot shall hold or have held within the 7 years preceding the last date on which the instrument rating issued by the CAA was valid, a valid instrument rating, compliant with Annex I to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and included in a pilot licence issued by a State other than the United Kingdom; and
c) a pilot with a current and valid instrument rating issued by another State shall comply with the revalidation requirements of FCL.625(b) and the aircraft category specific requirements for revalidation of the Part-FCL instrument rating; and
d) a pilot who held an instrument rating included in a licence issued by another State that is no longer valid but that instrument rating had been revalidated or renewed within the preceding 7 years shall comply with the renewal requirements of FCL.625(c).
3) This Exemption has effect from 21 May 2013 until the equivalent measures proposed under Article 14(6) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008 are adopted, unless revoked.
C J Whittaker
For the Civil Aviation Authority
21 May 2013
Explanatory note:
The intent of this exemption is that where a pilot holds or has held an Instrument Rating issued by a third country and that rating is compliant with Annex I to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the applicability of FCL.625(b), (c) and (d) may be based on the validity dates of the Instrument Rating issued by that other country.
Where a pilot holds a current and valid Instrument Rating issued by another country, the pilot must pass the IR proficiency check, but is not required to undergo training or to re-pass the theoretical knowledge examinations as specified in FCL.625(d).
Where a pilot held a 3rd country IR that is no longer current and valid but the IR was revalidated or renewed within the 7 years preceding the intended renewal of the UK IR, the pilot shall comply with the renewal requirements of FCL.625 IR(c), but is not required to re-pass the theoretical knowledge examinations as specified in FCL.625(d).
This explanatory note is not part of the exemption.
ORS4 No. 974: Exemption from the Instrument Rating Renewal Requirements of Part-FCL for Holders of UK CAA Issued Licences who hold or have held Third Country Pilot Licences with Instrument Rating Privileges | Publications | About the CAA
Enjoy, I'll get back to you regarding the type rating issues at some point in the future.
FM.
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Good job FM. Do you know the situation with type ratings? I flew 747s on a JAR ATPL based in the UK for 9 years, then 4 years ago I moved out of the UK to fly 747s with a third country on that country's ICAO licence, and I let my JAR licence IR expire.
I have just been negotiating with a UK ATO to arrange for me to validate my yet to be issued EASA licence with the 747. The ATO tells me I need to do a LST with an EASA TRE. Is this the case or would an LPC suffice for the CAA?
Thanks - James
I have just been negotiating with a UK ATO to arrange for me to validate my yet to be issued EASA licence with the 747. The ATO tells me I need to do a LST with an EASA TRE. Is this the case or would an LPC suffice for the CAA?
Thanks - James
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jaa atpl not current but icao atpl is
What shall I need to do to have an EASA Atpl. My jaa atpl is not current IR lapsed by more then 3 yrs but icao atpl/IR current and have level 6 LPL.
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You need to :
.get a TEA test even if you already have a level 6,
.get a easa class 1 medical,
.find an ATO that will schedule you the training (if any)they deem necessary for your Ir/rating renewal test based on your experience,recency....
.dont forget to fill all those SRG forms...the ATO will let u know which ones you need to fill and make sure your crdeit card aint maxed out
.get a TEA test even if you already have a level 6,
.get a easa class 1 medical,
.find an ATO that will schedule you the training (if any)they deem necessary for your Ir/rating renewal test based on your experience,recency....
.dont forget to fill all those SRG forms...the ATO will let u know which ones you need to fill and make sure your crdeit card aint maxed out
Last edited by de facto; 23rd Sep 2013 at 05:12.
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Any updates about renewal/conversion of national uk ATPL into EASA
Hi guys,
Any updates on the above subject For pilots flying on ICAO licenses?
What ATOs request before the SIM check and is CAA accepting ICAO ELP?
Thanks.
Any updates on the above subject For pilots flying on ICAO licenses?
What ATOs request before the SIM check and is CAA accepting ICAO ELP?
Thanks.
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Sid UK,
What a/c type do you have on your JAA license? Expired or not? Is your JAA license a UK one?
If you have a JAA license, expired or not, a valid IR or type rating or not you can get a EASA (UK) ATPL.
All you need is a valid EASA class one medical and a valid EASA approved ELP, I ddont think the ICAO one is valid for some reason, if you work for EK there is a guy that is an approved EASA ELP examiner.
Let me know if you need more info, I did my license a couple of months ago and it was straight forward!
What a/c type do you have on your JAA license? Expired or not? Is your JAA license a UK one?
If you have a JAA license, expired or not, a valid IR or type rating or not you can get a EASA (UK) ATPL.
All you need is a valid EASA class one medical and a valid EASA approved ELP, I ddont think the ICAO one is valid for some reason, if you work for EK there is a guy that is an approved EASA ELP examiner.
Let me know if you need more info, I did my license a couple of months ago and it was straight forward!
