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Has your UK CAA I/R lapsed by more than 7/6/3 years?

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Has your UK CAA I/R lapsed by more than 7/6/3 years?

Old 9th Mar 2012, 13:51
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Beach
Posts: 444
Good job FM, I had a look at what is required if there is no joy with the CAA..

Sh!t, too much like hard work, and an IR flight test..all of which is a complete and utter waste of time, money and effort.

We all have an IR on our ICAO license, yet the CAA is treating us as if we haven't flown in those 7 years. A complete joke.

I thought , in a rather misguided way, that a move to JAA would stop these independant "interpretations"of the rules. I'm sure that none of the other JAA are using this rule in this way...
145qrh is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2012, 12:39
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Attached to a Boeing.
Posts: 24
For all those interested.
If you look in the Fragrant Harbour forum under Dan Winterland you will find an email address [email protected] where coordinated action gainst this ruling is proposed. He needs the to know whether your licence is current, if not when it expired, what licence you are operating under and which company. It was written in November last year but I suspect is still active.
Also I have just got a copy of the APRIL 2012 issue of PILOT magazine where there is a letter from the Chief Executive of the CAA on this very subject. He explains that there was an error in all issues of LASORS prior to 2010 when it was changed to the current policy. He is adamant that the policy will not be changed and appears to be in line with what EASA is proposing. My argument with that is that we have been told and warned about the EASA changes to licencing but never were about the IR.
I intend to write to this man and try to seek some sensible response to this issue based on common sense and the fact that we are all operating under an ICAO licence which is recognized by the CAA.
I have also rejoined BALPA as an associate member who I believe maybe attempting to bring this issue to a head with the CAA.
I am certain that if enough people get together we can fight this issue successfully and retain our UK IR's without having to go back to the level of a spotty youth commencing his first IR.
frankie777 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2012, 13:51
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Frankie, good job, thanks for the info. Let us know what progress you make.

I will e-mail Dan and ask him what progress has been made. As I mentioned before I plan to correlate all pilots in the ME region who are affected by this stupidity and are willing to consider a class action. Alternatively if we can add our collective weight to the HK group then that may be the way...


Fart Master is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2012, 15:01
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,673
No longer in the Gulf, but I'm affected by this nonsense, and would like to be part of any group that challenges them over it
Luke SkyToddler is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2012, 20:39
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Midlands
Age: 56
Posts: 30
Thumbs down

Hi guys, i am too in the same boat.

Word of warning. After 8th April you will need a Current muti crew type on your UK state licence to get a current JAA licence, in order to get an EASA licence! That includes an I/R!
Prior to that date you Don't need a current muti crew type, an SEP rating will do it.
UK have delayed EASA licences by 6 months, but you need a JAA licence before then to get an EASA licence.

I now have a shinny new JAA licence without a current I/R!

There are NO more JAA exam sittings. After 8th of April you will be guinea pigs sitting EASA exams! Whats more you will have to present yourself to a TRTO organsation. Who will tell you what courses' exams to sit! More ways to rip you off.
5 Greens is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2012, 21:37
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Luke, my understanding is (assuming you hold a UK issued JAA ATPL like me) is you have 5 years to keep your medical current, and that if you can get a 320 LPC done somewhere in that timeframe you'll be sweet. This came after a visit to the Belgrano last week.
haughtney1 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2012, 22:17
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
I think you're mixing keeping you licence valid vs keeping your IR valid....These are 2 seperate issues...you can have a valid licence without an IR. You can put any a/c you want on your licence regardless of the status of your IR, or even if you have an IR or not.

I wonder if and when we get things organised if it will be better to approach EASA rather than the morons at LGW?

The thread on Fragrant Harbour mentions that the 1.185 ruling has not been interpreted by the UK CAA as JAR intended. JAR-FCL intended that the 7 year rule apply to pilots who had not kept their rating/skills valid in any way. It was not intended to penalise pilots in the likes of EK, Cathay and SQ etc. who kept current.

More to follow...
Fart Master is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2012, 13:24
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blingland
Age: 51
Posts: 327
Just got my 777 done with the EK JAR rated examiner, got the 777 and 787 on my shiny new UK JAR licence which is nice. I JUST did it in time, I was lucky.

Hired 777 sim and $500/hr EK rate, then 750 euros(to the examiner) for the rating, plus usual rip-off fees to the UK CAA.

You have my sympathy if you are having the current struggle with the UK CAA.

Sheikh Your Bootie is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2012, 08:02
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: taiwan
Age: 61
Posts: 2
vote with feet

as someone who will be affected when my caa issued jaa licence expires
in 2013.
my thoughts are if the caa choose to adopt this draconian interpretation
unilaterally while other e.u. states are more sympathetic,then perhaps our answer is to change our state of licence. from brief research it seems this can be done by applying for transfer of med records and applying for reissue of ratings or more simply take a new initial med cert and apply for
ratings. i stand to be corrected.
perhaps belgrano's attitude might change when they see the free lunch
money going across the channel or the irish sea.
jcwk is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2012, 11:25
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Having spent a considerable amount of time thinking about this situation I have come to the conclusion that the CAA has contradicted itself...

As has been posted JAR officials did not intend this rule to apply to pilots who kept their IR valid under another ICAO licence, i.e. most of us. They intended that the 7 year rule apply to pilots who had not kept current, in other words, needed retraining.

Now we come to the 'wonderful' UK CAA. I can only assume that the requirement to do all of the ground exams for an IR is to retrain and refresh a pilot who has not kept current, vis a vis it contradicts what they are demanding of 'current' pilots, e.g. EK, SQ etc. Therefore it would seem to back up the JAR version of how the rule was intended to be and not to play silly b*ggers with perfectly well qualified pilots.

Interestingly pilots who turn up at some other european JAR offices don't stricly have to keep to any validity rules as long as they can prove that they are current/have an ICAO licence and they get given a revalidated licence for their country when they need it etc...

Makes sense...???
Fart Master is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2012, 12:22
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Midlands
Age: 56
Posts: 30
Someone was asking about Lasors 2008. I have copies of Lasors 2006, 08 & 10. In Lasors 06 & 08. It clearly states, under Renewal of an IR (A).

Where IR privileges have been exercised in another category of aircraft i.e. UK/JAR IR(H) or under the privlileges of an ICAO licence (aeroplanes & helicopters) or under military IR qualification (fixed wing or rotary), the renewal requirements will be base on the expiry date of THAT IR.

If you did not meet that requirement & 7 years has lapsed you must resit the exams.

It changed in Lasors 2010 & also affects the military boys & girls. Where your JAA IR has lapsed more than 7 years you must reset your exams. After speaking to an insider, there are no ex aircrew in FCL. They have taken JAA (just like the judges in human rights laws in the UK) to the 9th degree! It says this, so thats that. Typical civil servants!

I have registered with the guy in BALPA who is handling it. He is hopeful this mess can be turned around, as JAA did not intend to affect those in the military or those of us who fly on ICAO licences.
5 Greens is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2012, 13:11
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
5 Greens, top job! I've sent you a PM.

Has anyone had any correspodance with 'Dan Winterland' from the HK forum as I believe he is gathering names to put a case forward.

Is there any risk that the CAA will completely slam the door in our face regarding giving us a licence when the new EASA regs come into force?
Fart Master is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2012, 14:53
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Somewhere around the World
Posts: 52
777 type rating to EASA licence?

Currently converting to EASA licence with 777 type rating.

This is being carried out by a third party using JAA approved sim in London area and has limited access to some slots. No approaches by individuals will be entertained and must be booked through an aviation intermediary.

If interested in converting that GCAA type rating to EASA recognised type rating then send me a private message, *"P.M."

This will work for anyone who flies for any of the airlines under the GCAA region.
missioncontrol is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2012, 17:13
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Thread creep...and there are several 777 sims in Dubai that are UK CAA approved anyway...
Fart Master is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2012, 21:07
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 9
Posts: 403
Fart Master

If you are a First Officer and have a P2 licence, you have to also do ground school and a written exam as well as an LPC. The UK CAA do not recognise P2 licences. Its not as easy as a simple LPC in a UK CAA approved sim if your an FO

I had to go to Oxford Aviation in Gatwick for 2 days to get the Rating I have on my QCAA licence onto my JAA and thus onto my EASA when the time comes.

If you're a captain with a P1, maybe sims in Dubai will be all you need.
Black Pudding is online now  
Old 28th Mar 2012, 16:00
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Fair enough, thanks for the information
Fart Master is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2012, 19:05
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Just seen Part FCL AMC section, it looks like everybody with a European licence who's IR have expired by more than 7 years is screwed now, not just the UK chaps.

What a bunch of morons....

Surely they will have to sort something out as the authorities now have 100's possibly 1000's of pilots affected rather than just the GB licence holders.
Fart Master is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2012, 15:43
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: xxx
Posts: 159

I've pm'ed to you

UK CAA only said to me i had to have a UK CAA Inspector do my IR Renewal

no mention of written exams

what a carry on - and i've been working non stop for 35 years

flying nice big aluminium tubes

but according to a bunch of >>>> in Gatwick

i shouldn't be allowed

Speedbrake Lever is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2012, 15:56
  #59 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
PM sent back to you.

I'm planning to set up a forum/site so that we can gather as many affected people worldwide as possible to petition EASA.

Hopefully now that all European pilots are affected they will have to take notice. Another advantage is that the CAA has no say in how things are dealt with. Eu-Ops is one law and no agency can interpret/vary the Part FCL which is now available to download. The only problem is that they have also decided to apply the 7 year rule, but I think we may get more sense out of a centralised European system?

of 3 November 2011
laying down technical requirements and administrative procedures related to civil aviation aircrew pursuant to Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 of the European Parliament and of the Council
Fart Master is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 12:21
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: xxx
Posts: 159

Hey Chaps

Any updates its middle of April now

Maybe we gotta vote for the " Respect" party

to get anything on this

Speedbrake Lever is offline  

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