Reasons not to apply for emirates airlines
I really do hope there is more to this. The only time EK ever looked after someone in the past was in situations like this. A very sad turn if this has changed.
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To the fools who refer to me in their posts above. I made a statement of the "demotion given within EK". Nothing about leave or death or otherwise. It truly is sad that some fellow pilot had had to suffer these losses, I am sorry for them for that. However, lighten up, I never disrespected the gentleman concerned and if anything I brought a common "banter" issue to lighten things up.
This is not a bereavement forum, the question was asked about an aviation demotion and that was what I replied to nothing else. Now go get some Christmas cheer in a glass and chill.
J
This is not a bereavement forum, the question was asked about an aviation demotion and that was what I replied to nothing else. Now go get some Christmas cheer in a glass and chill.
J
Last edited by jack schidt; 14th Dec 2015 at 05:23. Reason: Spelin
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I know of a current FO who is currently being put through the wringer thanks to his infants' serious and likely terminal ill-health. Second hand info suggests when he approached fleet he was given a flat refusal to leave Dubai to be near his child as they underwent treatment, it wasn't until he went over the heads of the estrogen fuelled oxygen thieves in fleet was he able to get home to be near his child in their last days.
I don't personally know the individual, but I know a friend of his very very well and I consider him an impeccable source.
If all the above info is accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise, I'm quite frankly disgusted and appalled.
I don't personally know the individual, but I know a friend of his very very well and I consider him an impeccable source.
If all the above info is accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise, I'm quite frankly disgusted and appalled.
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Legal realities in Dubai
If you are considering Emirates be aware of the lack of regulatory oversight and effective labour laws. Emirates operates its long-haul fleet with unprecedented "crew productivity" at a crew factor near 7. That is impossible to match for any major Western airline. And it shouldn't be possible. Well rested crews are the last line of defence when it comes to flight safety.
Emirates presently operates about 250 aircraft with about 3,850 pilots, some of whom are in training, in management or on sick leave. That equates to a crew factor of just over 7 in an operation that needs a lot of crews due to its long haul and ultra long haul nature.
Major Western airlines need a crew factor of somewhere between 11 and 13 for the same kind of operations. So it is very easy to see that Emirates pilots work a lot more hours and get a lot less sleep than their peers. This is a ticking time bomb for flight safety and crew health.
It is only possible in the legal environment of the UAE. Labour Unions are forbidden. The chairman of Emirates Airline sits on the board of the GCAA - that's the authority which regulates aviation in the UAE. The outcome is obvious. For example even the blatant malpractice reported in the WSJ on April 9, 2015 continues as before. Only a single piece of paper evidence has been removed from the process to cover it up. The GCAA didn't stop the unlawful practice but in fact helped to cover it up.
In my opinion Air Safety and Crew Health should be governed by an independent authority. If the UAE is unable to do so due to the nature of their legal system then it should be done for them. The FAA and EASA should demand a complete 12 month record of all pilot duties for any aircrew operating into their jurisdiction. The flight duty and rest periods should meet EASA or FAA standards. I am sure the passengers believe that kind of regulatory supervision already exists for the number one airline brand. It doesn't today.
From personal experience I have to warn you that if you ever do get into a difficult situation you are not just alone. The entire UAE is against you. In my case medical leave was denied despite the recommendation from outside doctors. The EK doctors agreed but told me they couldn't do it under their rules. When I tried to use contractual leave instead that was denied as well. In the end I walked out. The consequence has been that the company has kept my entire pension fund. I am also a wanted criminal in the UAE despite having paid every bill no matter how ridiculous, including 3 final telephone bills of which 2 were obviously a mistake. When I queried Dubai Police it took them 4 months of correspondence to confirm that they can not reveal the nature of the charges against me.
If you decide to go to work in the UAE you have to understand that you become subject to a legal system where a rape victim goes to jail. I hope that explains how upside down the place is.
Happy New Year from free Europe
Emirates presently operates about 250 aircraft with about 3,850 pilots, some of whom are in training, in management or on sick leave. That equates to a crew factor of just over 7 in an operation that needs a lot of crews due to its long haul and ultra long haul nature.
Major Western airlines need a crew factor of somewhere between 11 and 13 for the same kind of operations. So it is very easy to see that Emirates pilots work a lot more hours and get a lot less sleep than their peers. This is a ticking time bomb for flight safety and crew health.
It is only possible in the legal environment of the UAE. Labour Unions are forbidden. The chairman of Emirates Airline sits on the board of the GCAA - that's the authority which regulates aviation in the UAE. The outcome is obvious. For example even the blatant malpractice reported in the WSJ on April 9, 2015 continues as before. Only a single piece of paper evidence has been removed from the process to cover it up. The GCAA didn't stop the unlawful practice but in fact helped to cover it up.
In my opinion Air Safety and Crew Health should be governed by an independent authority. If the UAE is unable to do so due to the nature of their legal system then it should be done for them. The FAA and EASA should demand a complete 12 month record of all pilot duties for any aircrew operating into their jurisdiction. The flight duty and rest periods should meet EASA or FAA standards. I am sure the passengers believe that kind of regulatory supervision already exists for the number one airline brand. It doesn't today.
From personal experience I have to warn you that if you ever do get into a difficult situation you are not just alone. The entire UAE is against you. In my case medical leave was denied despite the recommendation from outside doctors. The EK doctors agreed but told me they couldn't do it under their rules. When I tried to use contractual leave instead that was denied as well. In the end I walked out. The consequence has been that the company has kept my entire pension fund. I am also a wanted criminal in the UAE despite having paid every bill no matter how ridiculous, including 3 final telephone bills of which 2 were obviously a mistake. When I queried Dubai Police it took them 4 months of correspondence to confirm that they can not reveal the nature of the charges against me.
If you decide to go to work in the UAE you have to understand that you become subject to a legal system where a rape victim goes to jail. I hope that explains how upside down the place is.
Happy New Year from free Europe
Last edited by in freedom; 5th Feb 2016 at 09:04.
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The idea of the warning letters for non-productivity is the "brain-child" of one of the fleet's chief pilots...I think we all know who.
The most effective way to get him "moved" to another position would be to send a copy of that letter to the editors of ALL the western papers with a brief description of the treatment of people in this company. I picture paints 1000 words and its not a fabrication, just statement of fact. I'll bet the US media would have a field day with it along with ALPA and the US3 vs ME3 case.
"Middle East Pilot gets the sack for going to mothers funeral" makes a good headline.
It should have been done a long time ago.
The most effective way to get him "moved" to another position would be to send a copy of that letter to the editors of ALL the western papers with a brief description of the treatment of people in this company. I picture paints 1000 words and its not a fabrication, just statement of fact. I'll bet the US media would have a field day with it along with ALPA and the US3 vs ME3 case.
"Middle East Pilot gets the sack for going to mothers funeral" makes a good headline.
It should have been done a long time ago.
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Several colleagues I know and myself received the mandatory email about how a pilots productivity is in question, even though the doctor has issued sick days and clearly we were unfit to fly in each case.
J
J
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All goodwill and assistance from fleet stopped the moment LL left the office over 8 years ago. Seen the good management style then but not since. Good luck to all and don't forget family first, dog second and company way own the list. Seen many guys suffer through torn marriages, health and happiness thinking they were doing the right things for the job and pleasing the company. Ended up in tears every time. 
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"...after a few years and make my millions"
I hope you put a bit more realistic planning into your warm and sunny EU residence. Mind you, compared to Inverness, you shouldn't find it too difficult!
Harry
I hope you put a bit more realistic planning into your warm and sunny EU residence. Mind you, compared to Inverness, you shouldn't find it too difficult!
Harry
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Once again a close call and luckily there is no smoking hole in the ground. Once again management take absolutely no responsibility for being in any way part of the problem. EK was a great company to work for but is rapidly becoming a bit of a joke within the industry.
EK has dined on other company’s failings, they are happy to replace experienced staff with pilots about to lose their jobs elsewhere. They use this ethos to avoid maintaining a remuneration package that would attract experienced pilots. As a result the experienced pilots within the company leave, and the subsequent void is becoming ever more evident.
The downhill slide over the last ten or so years seemed to accelerate in the last few years when management were faced with a severe decline in qualified pilot applicants. Rather than address the problem a psychopath in senior management embarked on a new strategy of significantly lowering the requirements, along with a load of other budgetary cuts and silly shortcuts to get bums on seats including sackings if one did not agree with him. His minions had no choice but to go along with his crazy ideas and his boss let him because in the short term it was more bonus for him and his management team.
The deteriorating conditions (in many aspects of the overall package) subsequently ensured an exodus of very experienced pilots without a care in the world registered by the 9th floor, I’m sure they figured they were saving more money. 521 was swept under the carpet with more close calls taking place on the line subsequently, yet the cost of experience appears unquantifiable from a management viewpoint which seems set on operating in compartments with minimum cost being the sole directive from above.
The last few years has seen some irrational events happening on EK aeroplanes that in the past would have been unthinkable. Remember the planes haven’t changed, it’s the company management that has taken the decision of changing its working practices toward its staff that has led to the rest of the aviation industry questioning whether they would really want to work for such an airline. I thought things were bad when I left but according to a relative still there, it’s gotten much worse.
Good luck folks, stay safe out there.
EK has dined on other company’s failings, they are happy to replace experienced staff with pilots about to lose their jobs elsewhere. They use this ethos to avoid maintaining a remuneration package that would attract experienced pilots. As a result the experienced pilots within the company leave, and the subsequent void is becoming ever more evident.
The downhill slide over the last ten or so years seemed to accelerate in the last few years when management were faced with a severe decline in qualified pilot applicants. Rather than address the problem a psychopath in senior management embarked on a new strategy of significantly lowering the requirements, along with a load of other budgetary cuts and silly shortcuts to get bums on seats including sackings if one did not agree with him. His minions had no choice but to go along with his crazy ideas and his boss let him because in the short term it was more bonus for him and his management team.
The deteriorating conditions (in many aspects of the overall package) subsequently ensured an exodus of very experienced pilots without a care in the world registered by the 9th floor, I’m sure they figured they were saving more money. 521 was swept under the carpet with more close calls taking place on the line subsequently, yet the cost of experience appears unquantifiable from a management viewpoint which seems set on operating in compartments with minimum cost being the sole directive from above.
The last few years has seen some irrational events happening on EK aeroplanes that in the past would have been unthinkable. Remember the planes haven’t changed, it’s the company management that has taken the decision of changing its working practices toward its staff that has led to the rest of the aviation industry questioning whether they would really want to work for such an airline. I thought things were bad when I left but according to a relative still there, it’s gotten much worse.
Good luck folks, stay safe out there.
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Airdancer, you hit the nail on the head, thank you for putting yourself forward. It's not the rosters "only" particularly that have changed in the last decade that has made EK a less desirable place to be at.
J
J
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I was having a dinner in Dubai with 2 very good friends who are working at EK and they were both quiet happy. As they mentionned the guys that are not complaining are not wasting their time on pprune. It's certainly not perfect and they both agreed they are working a lot (especially on the 777). I am not sure EK is worse than any other airline. You can work at any airline in the world you will still be a slave anyway. At least you don't give half your salary to the government for nothing in return...lucky you 😋
Last edited by ACP; 2nd Oct 2017 at 17:28.
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I was having a dinner in Dubai with 2 very good friends who are working at EK and they were both quiet happy. As they mentionned the guys that are not complaining are not wasting their time on pprune. It's certainly not perfect and they both agreed they are working a lot (especially on the 777). I am not sure EK is worse than any other airline. You can work at any airline in the world you will still be a slave anyway. At least you don't give half your salary to the government for nothing in return...lucky you 😋
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quiet...or quite happy?
ya reckon the folks at AA, United or Delta and the likes are "working like slaves"?...even a large regional airline in the USA pays nearly as much, and even more when you take into account days off....maybe Air Canada guys work like slaves...doubt it..
ya reckon the folks at AA, United or Delta and the likes are "working like slaves"?...even a large regional airline in the USA pays nearly as much, and even more when you take into account days off....maybe Air Canada guys work like slaves...doubt it..
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What was your previous Airline Airdance?
Are you one of these 1500 hr wonders who 3 yrs ago wouldn't be able to serve drinks or clean toilets on a widebody but now with the pilot shortage are flying right seat?
How times have changed. The majors don't work 15 days a month. It is a rare event when they fly over 10 days a month.
We get hammered and pilots here say it's an improvement. Give me a break.
Are you one of these 1500 hr wonders who 3 yrs ago wouldn't be able to serve drinks or clean toilets on a widebody but now with the pilot shortage are flying right seat?
How times have changed. The majors don't work 15 days a month. It is a rare event when they fly over 10 days a month.
We get hammered and pilots here say it's an improvement. Give me a break.
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I don't have a letter of the word "T.R.O.L.L." in my name but that surely still makes me one? 10 years here and I haven't seen any improvement. I've missed more birthdays and anniversaries than guys on death row, the optimists will say that there's AVAs now that cover that....an improvement!