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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 13th Dec 2015, 15:25   #181 (permalink)
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Odd - I would have thought it would have been 777 to 380.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 23:40   #182 (permalink)
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Droop and Jack,
Both of you have reached a new low with your comments regarding the loss suffered by a colleague.

I know first hand of an FO who was brought into the office just last year after he requested time off to attend the funeral of a parent,mjust a few weeks later his sister died suddenly.

He attended her funeral but was subsequently brought into the office regarding his lack of productivity, his lack of productivity was as a result of attending the two funerals.

It's also important to remember the emergency leave comes out of your leave (42 day bank ) initially but the the company will consider recrediting five days on the production of a death certificate
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 00:31   #183 (permalink)
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Desdihold - I agree totally with you - it is pathetic to make cheap, tedious and uninteresting A/B jibes when someone has been refused compassionate leave - unbelievable really.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 03:03   #184 (permalink)
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I really do hope there is more to this. The only time EK ever looked after someone in the past was in situations like this. A very sad turn if this has changed.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 05:30   #185 (permalink)
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Ryanair captain was unfit to fly, investigation finds

"Ryanair has since changed its operations manual following the incident to emphasise the flight safety implications of personal trauma, and the importance of notification to flight operations management."
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 06:19   #186 (permalink)
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To the fools who refer to me in their posts above. I made a statement of the "demotion given within EK". Nothing about leave or death or otherwise. It truly is sad that some fellow pilot had had to suffer these losses, I am sorry for them for that. However, lighten up, I never disrespected the gentleman concerned and if anything I brought a common "banter" issue to lighten things up.

This is not a bereavement forum, the question was asked about an aviation demotion and that was what I replied to nothing else. Now go get some Christmas cheer in a glass and chill.


Last edited by jack schidt; 14th Dec 2015 at 06:23. Reason: Spelin
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 06:31   #187 (permalink)
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I know of a current FO who is currently being put through the wringer thanks to his infants' serious and likely terminal ill-health. Second hand info suggests when he approached fleet he was given a flat refusal to leave Dubai to be near his child as they underwent treatment, it wasn't until he went over the heads of the estrogen fuelled oxygen thieves in fleet was he able to get home to be near his child in their last days.
I don't personally know the individual, but I know a friend of his very very well and I consider him an impeccable source.
If all the above info is accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise, I'm quite frankly disgusted and appalled.
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Old 6th Jan 2016, 12:53   #188 (permalink)
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Legal realities in Dubai

If you are considering Emirates be aware of the lack of regulatory oversight and effective labour laws. Emirates operates its long-haul fleet with unprecedented "crew productivity" at a crew factor near 7. That is impossible to match for any major Western airline. And it shouldn't be possible. Well rested crews are the last line of defence when it comes to flight safety.
Emirates presently operates about 250 aircraft with about 3,850 pilots, some of whom are in training, in management or on sick leave. That equates to a crew factor of just over 7 in an operation that needs a lot of crews due to its long haul and ultra long haul nature.
Major Western airlines need a crew factor of somewhere between 11 and 13 for the same kind of operations. So it is very easy to see that Emirates pilots work a lot more hours and get a lot less sleep than their peers. This is a ticking time bomb for flight safety and crew health.
It is only possible in the legal environment of the UAE. Labour Unions are forbidden. The chairman of Emirates Airline sits on the board of the GCAA - that's the authority which regulates aviation in the UAE. The outcome is obvious. For example even the blatant malpractice reported in the WSJ on April 9, 2015 continues as before. Only a single piece of paper evidence has been removed from the process to cover it up. The GCAA didn't stop the unlawful practice but in fact helped to cover it up.
In my opinion Air Safety and Crew Health should be governed by an independent authority. If the UAE is unable to do so due to the nature of their legal system then it should be done for them. The FAA and EASA should demand a complete 12 month record of all pilot duties for any aircrew operating into their jurisdiction. The flight duty and rest periods should meet EASA or FAA standards. I am sure the passengers believe that kind of regulatory supervision already exists for the number one airline brand. It doesn't today.
From personal experience I have to warn you that if you ever do get into a difficult situation you are not just alone. The entire UAE is against you. In my case medical leave was denied despite the recommendation from outside doctors. The EK doctors agreed but told me they couldn't do it under their rules. When I tried to use contractual leave instead that was denied as well. In the end I walked out. The consequence has been that the company has kept my entire pension fund. I am also a wanted criminal in the UAE despite having paid every bill no matter how ridiculous, including 3 final telephone bills of which 2 were obviously a mistake. When I queried Dubai Police it took them 4 months of correspondence to confirm that they can not reveal the nature of the charges against me.
If you decide to go to work in the UAE you have to understand that you become subject to a legal system where a rape victim goes to jail. I hope that explains how upside down the place is.

Happy New Year from free Europe

Last edited by in freedom; 5th Feb 2016 at 10:04.
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Old 6th Jan 2016, 16:43   #189 (permalink)
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The idea of the warning letters for non-productivity is the "brain-child" of one of the fleet's chief pilots...I think we all know who.

The most effective way to get him "moved" to another position would be to send a copy of that letter to the editors of ALL the western papers with a brief description of the treatment of people in this company. I picture paints 1000 words and its not a fabrication, just statement of fact. I'll bet the US media would have a field day with it along with ALPA and the US3 vs ME3 case.

"Middle East Pilot gets the sack for going to mothers funeral" makes a good headline.

It should have been done a long time ago.
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Old 6th Jan 2016, 16:51   #190 (permalink)
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Several colleagues I know and myself received the mandatory email about how a pilots productivity is in question, even though the doctor has issued sick days and clearly we were unfit to fly in each case.

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Old 11th Jan 2016, 02:15   #191 (permalink)
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All goodwill and assistance from fleet stopped the moment LL left the office over 8 years ago. Seen the good management style then but not since. Good luck to all and don't forget family first, dog second and company way own the list. Seen many guys suffer through torn marriages, health and happiness thinking they were doing the right things for the job and pleasing the company. Ended up in tears every time.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 22:18   #192 (permalink)
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don't know why but I feel we need to keep this thread alive....

maybe it's just one of those moments.


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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 22:32   #193 (permalink)
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I can't help but feel the many other Emirates threads does the job nicely Kippa.

My plan before actually being an airline pilot was to go to the sandpit after a few years and make my millions and buy a nice house in the South East.

Now I'm actually here flying a turbo prop in the uk and moving to a EU Loco 737 operator armed with my 'insider info ' you couldn't pay me enough to go to the sandpit. The whole thing sounds awful. Also the South East can be forgotten as the UK is a sinking ship.. somewhere warm and sunny in the EU please!
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Old 23rd Sep 2017, 08:14   #194 (permalink)
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"...after a few years and make my millions"

I hope you put a bit more realistic planning into your warm and sunny EU residence. Mind you, compared to Inverness, you shouldn't find it too difficult!

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Old 23rd Sep 2017, 09:23   #195 (permalink)
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I was being slightly flippant
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Old 23rd Sep 2017, 13:12   #196 (permalink)
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Reasons not to apply to EK - lots and increasing daily from the look of it!
well done management (must be a new cunning plan to get lots to apply!!)
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 10:40   #197 (permalink)
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Once again a close call and luckily there is no smoking hole in the ground. Once again management take absolutely no responsibility for being in any way part of the problem. EK was a great company to work for but is rapidly becoming a bit of a joke within the industry.

EK has dined on other companyís failings, they are happy to replace experienced staff with pilots about to lose their jobs elsewhere. They use this ethos to avoid maintaining a remuneration package that would attract experienced pilots. As a result the experienced pilots within the company leave, and the subsequent void is becoming ever more evident.

The downhill slide over the last ten or so years seemed to accelerate in the last few years when management were faced with a severe decline in qualified pilot applicants. Rather than address the problem a psychopath in senior management embarked on a new strategy of significantly lowering the requirements, along with a load of other budgetary cuts and silly shortcuts to get bums on seats including sackings if one did not agree with him. His minions had no choice but to go along with his crazy ideas and his boss let him because in the short term it was more bonus for him and his management team.

The deteriorating conditions (in many aspects of the overall package) subsequently ensured an exodus of very experienced pilots without a care in the world registered by the 9th floor, Iím sure they figured they were saving more money. 521 was swept under the carpet with more close calls taking place on the line subsequently, yet the cost of experience appears unquantifiable from a management viewpoint which seems set on operating in compartments with minimum cost being the sole directive from above.

The last few years has seen some irrational events happening on EK aeroplanes that in the past would have been unthinkable. Remember the planes havenít changed, itís the company management that has taken the decision of changing its working practices toward its staff that has led to the rest of the aviation industry questioning whether they would really want to work for such an airline. I thought things were bad when I left but according to a relative still there, itís gotten much worse.

Good luck folks, stay safe out there.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 03:59   #198 (permalink)
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PS , could not have said it better myself !
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 11:00   #199 (permalink)

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Honestly after being here for 2 years it hasnt gotten worse. Rosters improved a lot
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 12:21   #200 (permalink)
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Reasons not join EK, too many to list here but the main one would be Delta is hiring
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