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So, I did not have enough time to review your doc, av8tordude
But, as I see in the monthly salary, in QR you assume a housing allowance instead of be receiving an apartment from the company (and according 0$)
But, in the EK column I see Housing = 0.
Well, if you compare a F/O from QR living on his own and having company's money and a F/O from EK living in company accommodation and having 0 from the company... that's not fair at all. Take company's allowance in EK (if I don't remember wrong, in € is about 2800, much much more than QR)
Then you add to the F/O in QR a transport amount. Well, obviously you don't have this in EK because THEY PICK YOU UP IN YOUR PLACE AND DROP YOU DOWN IN THE OPERATIONS DOOR (and then back home when finished). This includes every DUTY so transport to the simulators or ground courses every year are included.
So, this amount should not be taken into account in the QR F/O or otherwise you should add at least the same amount to the EK F/O's (if not more, because the price of the ride includes a chauffeur and not walking 15min from where you park your car when flying and your company operations building is)
Look, you're happy at QR. I respect that, and I really wish you best luck and improvements in terms on retirements, tickets for you and family etc. I do also because I have more than 5 friends there (F/O in the 777 and 321). BUT, if you're trying to compare QR with EK or EY man... I'm sorry but no way.
When I was in DXB for the assessment I shared experiences with a USA 747 Captain. He was there to assess as a F/O. He already had at this moment his welcome email as a DEC wide body in QR but he was trying and preferring to join EK as a F/O. And, unfortunately he didn't do it so you will probably fly with him from Doha. What I want to say is that this guy was OK for the treatment received in QR but he also recognized that the procedure, organization and professionalism of QR was far away from the one he saw in EK.
Same for a colleague of mine. Passed the EK assessment early this year and lately was invited to Doha by QR. Accepted the invitation and according to his own words: "the assessment in QR was a joke compared with the one in EK".
I have to say that he was also accepted as a F/O in QR but will obviously join EK.
And that's it. If you want to compare salaries do not forget the advantages you find in EK that are no included in your bank account but works good for your pocket (transport provided, tickets for family, etc)
Well, again, wish you all the best in QR because I'm sure that it is a very nice place to work. Will be there soon for visiting my friend in the 320 and won't mind to meet you all guys and take some pints. You pay for them of course.
But, as I see in the monthly salary, in QR you assume a housing allowance instead of be receiving an apartment from the company (and according 0$)
But, in the EK column I see Housing = 0.
Well, if you compare a F/O from QR living on his own and having company's money and a F/O from EK living in company accommodation and having 0 from the company... that's not fair at all. Take company's allowance in EK (if I don't remember wrong, in € is about 2800, much much more than QR)
Then you add to the F/O in QR a transport amount. Well, obviously you don't have this in EK because THEY PICK YOU UP IN YOUR PLACE AND DROP YOU DOWN IN THE OPERATIONS DOOR (and then back home when finished). This includes every DUTY so transport to the simulators or ground courses every year are included.
So, this amount should not be taken into account in the QR F/O or otherwise you should add at least the same amount to the EK F/O's (if not more, because the price of the ride includes a chauffeur and not walking 15min from where you park your car when flying and your company operations building is)
Look, you're happy at QR. I respect that, and I really wish you best luck and improvements in terms on retirements, tickets for you and family etc. I do also because I have more than 5 friends there (F/O in the 777 and 321). BUT, if you're trying to compare QR with EK or EY man... I'm sorry but no way.
When I was in DXB for the assessment I shared experiences with a USA 747 Captain. He was there to assess as a F/O. He already had at this moment his welcome email as a DEC wide body in QR but he was trying and preferring to join EK as a F/O. And, unfortunately he didn't do it so you will probably fly with him from Doha. What I want to say is that this guy was OK for the treatment received in QR but he also recognized that the procedure, organization and professionalism of QR was far away from the one he saw in EK.
Same for a colleague of mine. Passed the EK assessment early this year and lately was invited to Doha by QR. Accepted the invitation and according to his own words: "the assessment in QR was a joke compared with the one in EK".
I have to say that he was also accepted as a F/O in QR but will obviously join EK.
And that's it. If you want to compare salaries do not forget the advantages you find in EK that are no included in your bank account but works good for your pocket (transport provided, tickets for family, etc)
Well, again, wish you all the best in QR because I'm sure that it is a very nice place to work. Will be there soon for visiting my friend in the 320 and won't mind to meet you all guys and take some pints. You pay for them of course.
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Originally Posted by archer_737
But, as I see in the monthly salary, in QR you assume a housing allowance instead of be receiving an apartment from the company (and according 0$)
But, in the EK column I see Housing = 0.
Look, you're happy at QR. I respect that, and I really wish you best luck and improvements in terms on retirements, tickets for you and family etc.
Let me set the record straight!!!!!
I come here to offer as much “factual” information as possible. I’m not here to justify or make an argument over what airline is better. I created this worksheet from my spare time so people use what information is available to make an informed decision. I DID NOT waste my time trying to prove one airline is better than the other. I DON’T CARE!!!!
If I provided incorrect information, I had requested that someone bring it to my attention. NOT CRITICIZE ME FOR MY EFFORTS OR EXPLAIN THERE REASONS WHY YOU OR YOUR FRIENDS CHOSE EK OVER QR OR EY. Heck if QR was not a growing company, the argument would be..."which airline is better EK or EY...lol". The only thing I care about is that my bills get paid, my family and friends are taken care of, and I retire in 10 years and go back to home to my home country (which working for QR, EK, or EY will accomplish this goal.) I have no intentions of making the sandpit my retirement home!!!!
Having said all that, instead of critiquing my work, or criticizing my efforts, or trying to prove that you know more than thou, how about you offer what information you do have to the subject so that I and others can improve this forums for potential new hires to benefit!!!
Now, I would be gladly take the time to insert what factual information you may have and include it in the worksheet.
Oh, BTW, QR have their problems, but EK is not a perfect airline either! I'm only happy that I can make a respectable wage, provide for my family, and retire with dignity. Currently, in the States, no opportunity exist at the moment. And even if the opportunity presents itself, I have no intentions of starting over again (reserve, low pay, and low quality of life). NO THANKS! I can always visit my country or any other country I wish on the 42 days of vacation I receive every year.
Last edited by av8tordude; 11th Jul 2012 at 14:50.
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I can definitely tell you that EK is not a perfect airline, why would I otherwise be in the pool instead of joining them in the normal way? Lack of planing I would say!
My bad then, I assumed that the document comparing the two airlines was exactly for that, to compare them.
I agree that you did a great job and wasted there a lot of time and surely that can be helpful for our colleagues in the forum so I will do my best to pass you the correct information.
EK salaries:
Captain:
AED 36410/month (9900$)
Flying pay: AED 60 per block hour (16$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 600 per block hour (162$)
Telephone allowance: AED 200 per month (54$)
F/O:
AED 25320/month (6894$)
Flying pay: AED 45 per block hour (12$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 425 (115$)
Telephone allowance: AED 100 per month (27$)
Regarding the allowance:
Captain: AED 179400/year - 48850$ (AED 14950/month - 4070$)
F/O: AED 159840/year - 43524$ (AED 13320/month - 3627$)
The allowance will be paid divided in 2 checks per year.
Then you can apply for a AED 70000 (19061$) free of interest car loan which will be discounted from your basic salary in equal amounts for the next 4 years.
Also a nice thing, they have what they call: EXCHANGE RATE PROTECTION SCHEME. That means that you're paid in AED and obviously depending on the market fluctuation once you send this money to your place (in your case American Dollars to USA) you can be loosing money. They created this program which allows them to protect the 50% of your basic salary against the market fluctuation between AED/your local currency.
An to be finishing now, about the provident scheme:
You will be contributing 5% of your basic salary and the company will contribute 12% the first 10 years and then 15% thereafter.
If you calculate the 5% of the F/O accumulated by himself and the 10% by the company at the end of each year of service he will have an extra 6500$
If you leave you will have:
Less than 5 years service: employee's contribution only plus end of service benefit calculated on 21 days basic salary per year.
5 to 7 years: employee contribution plus 75% or company contribution or 30 days basic salary whichever is higher.
More than 7 years: employee contribution plus company contribution.
Then, there is a profit share scheme. Once closing the fiscal year they calculate the benefits and give every employee his percentage. Last year was 12 weeks basic salary for each employee. This year unfortunately I think they shared nothing as they said that the benefits were not as expected.
As they did that and you can not rely on this every year I won't ask you to include it on the table. Otherwise, taking 12 weeks for a F/O last year will give you in May an extra pay of: 20700$.
I think that's all. You can now complete your excel document closer to reality.
Thank you!
My bad then, I assumed that the document comparing the two airlines was exactly for that, to compare them.
I agree that you did a great job and wasted there a lot of time and surely that can be helpful for our colleagues in the forum so I will do my best to pass you the correct information.
EK salaries:
Captain:
AED 36410/month (9900$)
Flying pay: AED 60 per block hour (16$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 600 per block hour (162$)
Telephone allowance: AED 200 per month (54$)
F/O:
AED 25320/month (6894$)
Flying pay: AED 45 per block hour (12$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 425 (115$)
Telephone allowance: AED 100 per month (27$)
Regarding the allowance:
Captain: AED 179400/year - 48850$ (AED 14950/month - 4070$)
F/O: AED 159840/year - 43524$ (AED 13320/month - 3627$)
The allowance will be paid divided in 2 checks per year.
Then you can apply for a AED 70000 (19061$) free of interest car loan which will be discounted from your basic salary in equal amounts for the next 4 years.
Also a nice thing, they have what they call: EXCHANGE RATE PROTECTION SCHEME. That means that you're paid in AED and obviously depending on the market fluctuation once you send this money to your place (in your case American Dollars to USA) you can be loosing money. They created this program which allows them to protect the 50% of your basic salary against the market fluctuation between AED/your local currency.
An to be finishing now, about the provident scheme:
You will be contributing 5% of your basic salary and the company will contribute 12% the first 10 years and then 15% thereafter.
If you calculate the 5% of the F/O accumulated by himself and the 10% by the company at the end of each year of service he will have an extra 6500$
If you leave you will have:
Less than 5 years service: employee's contribution only plus end of service benefit calculated on 21 days basic salary per year.
5 to 7 years: employee contribution plus 75% or company contribution or 30 days basic salary whichever is higher.
More than 7 years: employee contribution plus company contribution.
Then, there is a profit share scheme. Once closing the fiscal year they calculate the benefits and give every employee his percentage. Last year was 12 weeks basic salary for each employee. This year unfortunately I think they shared nothing as they said that the benefits were not as expected.
As they did that and you can not rely on this every year I won't ask you to include it on the table. Otherwise, taking 12 weeks for a F/O last year will give you in May an extra pay of: 20700$.
I think that's all. You can now complete your excel document closer to reality.
Thank you!
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There seems to be a discrepency in your basic salary? According to EK website, it says the following...
• Captain: Monthly Salary Dhs 41,240 (Basic Salary plus Hourly Flying Pay based on 85 block hours per month).
• First Officer: Monthly Salary Dhs 29,145 (Basic Salary plus Hourly Flying Pay based on 85 block hours per month).
Why the difference?
• Captain: Monthly Salary Dhs 41,240 (Basic Salary plus Hourly Flying Pay based on 85 block hours per month).
• First Officer: Monthly Salary Dhs 29,145 (Basic Salary plus Hourly Flying Pay based on 85 block hours per month).
Why the difference?
Captain:
AED 36410/month (9900$)
Flying pay: AED 60 per block hour (16$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 600 per block hour (162$)
Telephone allowance: AED 200 per month (54$)
F/O:
AED 25320/month (6894$)
Flying pay: AED 45 per block hour (12$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 425 (115$)
Telephone allowance: AED 100 per month (27$)
AED 36410/month (9900$)
Flying pay: AED 60 per block hour (16$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 600 per block hour (162$)
Telephone allowance: AED 200 per month (54$)
F/O:
AED 25320/month (6894$)
Flying pay: AED 45 per block hour (12$)
Productivity hourly rate: AED 425 (115$)
Telephone allowance: AED 100 per month (27$)
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Well, because they are adding, as you said, a basic salary + 85 hours flown.
I copied to you the basic salary itself. Just that, basic salary (flying 0 hours).
Then you get , as a F/O, AED 45 for each hour up to a fixed amount. Then, for every extra hour AED 425.
For the extra hours they take into account:
31 calendar days per month---> 92 hours
30 days----> 89 hours
29 days----> 86 hours
28 days----> 83 hours.
So, if you say that they are assuming 85 hours flown that means AED 25320 per month plus 85hours x 45AED---> AED 29145 (7936$)
Let's assume that last February you flew 90 hours. You will then receive your basic salary + 86 hours payed at AED 45 each + 4 hours payed at AED 425 rate. Why? Because February was a 29 days month so the target for a 29 days month is to fly "only" 83 hours and all the hours above that target will be payed at the extra called "productivity pay".
In the case of a Captain same situation but normal hours payed at AED 60 and productivity pay at AED 600
Does it make sense to you now?
I copied to you the basic salary itself. Just that, basic salary (flying 0 hours).
Then you get , as a F/O, AED 45 for each hour up to a fixed amount. Then, for every extra hour AED 425.
For the extra hours they take into account:
31 calendar days per month---> 92 hours
30 days----> 89 hours
29 days----> 86 hours
28 days----> 83 hours.
So, if you say that they are assuming 85 hours flown that means AED 25320 per month plus 85hours x 45AED---> AED 29145 (7936$)
Let's assume that last February you flew 90 hours. You will then receive your basic salary + 86 hours payed at AED 45 each + 4 hours payed at AED 425 rate. Why? Because February was a 29 days month so the target for a 29 days month is to fly "only" 83 hours and all the hours above that target will be payed at the extra called "productivity pay".
In the case of a Captain same situation but normal hours payed at AED 60 and productivity pay at AED 600
Does it make sense to you now?
Last edited by archer_737; 11th Jul 2012 at 22:04.
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Since I work for Qatar (as an pilot), I'm 99% confident the information is correct. The 1% remaining is base on company's day to day policy changes. I don't work for Emirates, but If anyone does and you find any errors, please let me know. Thanks
I come here to offer as much “factual” information as possible. I’m not here to justify or make an argument over what airline is better. I created this worksheet from my spare time so people use what information is available to make an informed decision. I DID NOT waste my time trying to prove one airline is better than the other. I DON’T CARE!!!!
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av8tordude
From the 5th year to the 10th year, showed the same basic for both Capt and FO on the EOS scheme of Qatar Airways. Not sure why, can you help me with that please??
Nice job btw
From the 5th year to the 10th year, showed the same basic for both Capt and FO on the EOS scheme of Qatar Airways. Not sure why, can you help me with that please??
Nice job btw
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Does EK provide the telephone allowance if living in company accommodations? Is there a "cap" on FO's salary? If so, what year does it start?
Last edited by av8tordude; 12th Jul 2012 at 08:19.
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Telephone allowance is only payed if you live in company accommodation. Also AED 27000 per annum is payed to you if you pick the company accommodation in order to pay bills for electricity, gas, etc.
None of the above are payed if you chose to take company's allowance and look for an apartment by yourself.
None of the above are payed if you chose to take company's allowance and look for an apartment by yourself.
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Archer 737
Who do you really want to work for? EK or Qatar?
Who do you really want to work for? EK or Qatar?
I'm sure I'd be more than happy to work for both.
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Originally Posted by archer_737
Telephone allowance is only payed if you live in company accommodation. Also AED 27000 per annum is payed to you if you pick the company accommodation in order to pay bills for electricity, gas, etc.
None of the above are payed if you chose to take company's allowance and look for an apartment by yourself.
None of the above are payed if you chose to take company's allowance and look for an apartment by yourself.
Should it be the other way around in regards to the allowances, where as If you live in company accommodations to don't receive the allowance, but if you live in the company accommodation, then you get the allowance?
Also, the utilities allowances...Is it 2,700/yr or 27,000/yr?
Just trying to understand.
Last edited by av8tordude; 12th Jul 2012 at 10:12.
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Well, it is obvious that if you're receiving 3600$ a month you have enough money to pay yourself the bills and phone. So if you leave the company accommodation and look for your own flat/villa you will be provided ONLY with the 3600$/month (from there you pay rent + phone + bills)
If you decide to stay in the company building then they will give you AED 27000 (7300$) per year for bills and the monthly telephone allowance I told you in my last post.
If you decide to stay in the company building then they will give you AED 27000 (7300$) per year for bills and the monthly telephone allowance I told you in my last post.
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Archer...
Please understand, I'm relying on you to provide accurate data as I don't work for them. What good would this worksheet be if the output is not accurate as possible. That being said, is there a difference in accommodation allowance if you are provided housing for FO's and CA's or is the allowance the same? (i.e. 27,000 for FO & CA some other figure)
Please understand, I'm relying on you to provide accurate data as I don't work for them. What good would this worksheet be if the output is not accurate as possible. That being said, is there a difference in accommodation allowance if you are provided housing for FO's and CA's or is the allowance the same? (i.e. 27,000 for FO & CA some other figure)
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Captain Housing allowance:
AED 14950 per month (AED 179499 per year) you pay bills and phone from this
F/O Housing allowance:
AED 13320 per month (AED 159840 per year) you pay bills and phone from this
The AED 27000 is only given to you if you live in company apartment/villa. Same amount for F/O or Captain.
AED 14950 per month (AED 179499 per year) you pay bills and phone from this
F/O Housing allowance:
AED 13320 per month (AED 159840 per year) you pay bills and phone from this
The AED 27000 is only given to you if you live in company apartment/villa. Same amount for F/O or Captain.
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*********************Calculator Update!***************************
There are two tabs: Qatar Airways & Emirates Airlines.
I've updated the calculator, which includes Qatar Airways and Emirates Airlines. You can calculate Salary and EOSG. Emirates also has a Provident Fund Scheme, which is also included.
If anyone find any errors, please let me know. Thanks
You can find the link here....
Salary-Pension Calculator.xls download - 2shared
There are 2 "Download" buttons displayed. Click the smaller "Download" button. DO NOT CLICK THE LARGER "DOWNLOAD" BUTTON
There are two tabs: Qatar Airways & Emirates Airlines.
I've updated the calculator, which includes Qatar Airways and Emirates Airlines. You can calculate Salary and EOSG. Emirates also has a Provident Fund Scheme, which is also included.
If anyone find any errors, please let me know. Thanks
You can find the link here....
Salary-Pension Calculator.xls download - 2shared
There are 2 "Download" buttons displayed. Click the smaller "Download" button. DO NOT CLICK THE LARGER "DOWNLOAD" BUTTON
Last edited by av8tordude; 16th Jul 2012 at 19:17.
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With reference to page 1 and Luke Skytoddlers comment - he is right on the money! Qatar is the joke airline that people are using for the rating, but because management are indian and the chief pakistani they believe traning is cheaper than keeping current pilots happy.