pilotguy1222

warhammer, sorry to hear of your experience. We only have a few of those guys, thankfully, but it sounds you like you got one of them.

I have flown many raw data approaches and have never, ever, "armed" the approach. As you stated, it is raw data and pointless to do so.

Mister

Hang on,

I am just trying to understand, possibly I am wrong. If you are flying a raw data approach with no FDs, No AP and no A/T, the FMA would be blank and would remain blank even if you try to engage the APP mode. I dont understand how the FMA changed when you armed the approach ( dont even think you would be able to arm it).

Having said that I have to agree with all said about Emirates training department here, one of the reasons why I left not even 18 months after I joined.

Good luck to all guys still there and hope you can get out soon :-)

KR.

greenfields

True, but the intent is accurate. Sealear wasn't being literal.

The number of inconsistencies within the EK training department, and the number of outright fools who state things that show they genuinely have no understanding of aviation was ever growing before I left. They were very easy to pick - any questioning of what they were explaining to delve deeper quietly showed an embarrassing lack of depth.

But hey, isn't 'Knowledge' one of the key markers? And from what the pyramid was built from? Not for all trainers it seemed.

White Knight

I'm guessing then, if the FMA changed, that you were doing the single engine ILS part of the exercise? No AP but FDs available?

Seems to me the guys in the sim with you were possibly doing us a favour!

Jack D

I think WK has got it right , perhaps some confusion over the definition of a raw data approach . Most recruitment pilots are reasonable guys and will drop a subtle hint if required to bring the candidate back in the loop , sometimes that doesn’t help much .. that’s why it’s called selection

donpizmeov

Looks like they only need to recruit a bit over 800 pilots in the next 12 months. A walk in the park really as the jets really are big and shiny.
Only a bit over half that number is because of attrition. So I can't see any business case in trying to retain pilots at all. Well, maybe just a little case.

warhammer

Well, the second leg was, as I said, one eng inop takeoff and there was no FDs. As soon as I armed the APP when turning inbound, loc and g/s armed on FMA since I chose the approach on fmc for ILS12L, then LOC captured! The last leg was both eng operative ILS approach with FDs ON.

warhammer

Haha!
I'm not a candidate, I'm a successful pilot who know when to arm the damn APP mode. Never ever failed on any sim flights for the last 5 years, including line checks. If you want to make the sim difficult, not a problem, very easy. If you want to fail somebody, no matter how successful he is, not a big deal, very easy. But the overall attitude was not acceptable in EK sim session, and EK was also in a selection period for me during this time. Believe me I wouldn't apply again for any position within EK. So, good luck for everybody who thinks EK is their future company to work.

JPJP

I’m not sure that I could do a one engine inop takeoff either. I salute you

White Knight

There ya go then! The last exercise is RAW DATA; no FDs. The EFATO exercise is WITH FDs. You must be have got your self confused. Don't worry too much as it can happen to pilots sometimes

Mister

I still dont get how you can have FMA indication in raw data, sorry. And dont understand why you would have it by selecting the app on the FMC if the FDs are off. Anyway maybe I need to review the system, I might have a concept error.

As you said, lucky you were not hired, it is not a nice place.

All the best.

fab777

In my book, raw data and FD off are two different things. And you can have FMA indications on your PFD with your FD off if the other FD is on.

Mister

In my book raw data is BOTH fligh directors off, no A/P and no A/T ( well maybe A/T on for Airbus). Why would one of the flight directors be on to have indications on the FMA during a raw data in a sim check?. Doesnt make any sense to me.

I dont know the 777 though, never flew it.

dan1165

Raw data = BOTH fligh directors off, no A/P , no A/T . On the bus you may have the bird ON or OFF .
End of discussion.

Jack D

No offense meant by using the word candidate. All pilots are referred to as candidates during selection as are applicants for any job. 2 engine Raw data is flown with no f/d or a/pil , the a/ thr is permitted during selection.
S/ engine Ils and g/around is flown with f/d and no a/pil or a/ thr
There is no s/ eng raw data Ils approach in the recruitment profile .

warhammer

Guys, please don't take offense but I will write for the last time the configurations, and yes I am pretty sure that they were absolutely the correct configurations as I have been talking and writing/emailing/messaging with my friends as exactly the same since that day.

First Leg:
Visual traffic pattern
Configuration:
FDs OFF, AP Disengage, AT OFF

Second Leg:
One eng inop after V1
Configuration:
AP Disengage, ATs OFF, FDs OFF (BECAUSE I WAS EXPECTED TO FLY A RAW DATA APP, which means at least my FD was off, maybe the examiner next to me turned his ON and that's why maybe we saw something on the FMA after arming the APP, I'm not sure. I never flew a raw data approach flight with one FD ON and never pushed APP on a raw data approach either, and I am absolutely sure that the second leg was a raw data approach guys, please believe me it might have happened like that, maybe we took OFF with FDs ON and after completing everyting, all briefings etc, when turning to inbound course with HDG by the ATC, maybe here they asked me to turn OFF the FD to fly the raw data stuff, and PM stayed with FD ON on his side, and maybe that is why there was something on the FMA (only on ROLL and PITCH mode), but I am sure that on my side there was no FD since it was a raw data approach!)


The last leg:
Both eng operative, inflight, hdg on the inbound course, around 12 nm, ILS approach
Configuration:
AP Disengaged, ATs ON, FDs ON ( and here they wanted to see my flying on FDs)

Best Regards

intheblue

Monkey business
just like on a ps4, a 10 year old would kick ass!

warhammer

You're right, it should be this way. I don't know why they forced me so much )

and I know they did a favor to me and it was meant to be this way

sealear

I second what seaman said. One problem here is that while you may have 2 (or 3 if you're lucky) days off after a flight, it takes at least 2 days to recover and actually be able to do anything useful other than sleep all day or be in a zombie like state. So in that respect 8-10 days off a month are actually not much at all.

greenfields

As Seaman Staynes said, the simplest and most striking fact is that work-life balance has completely disappeared from the job - there is none. The little time that is now spent at home between trips is used trying to recuperate, and there is no quality time left for the individual or their family due to exhaustion. The working conditions have reached a position of being unsustainable for anyone who wishes to remain fit and healthy. It is impossible to fly ULRs (many with 24hr layovers) and then be physically and mentally fit to safely fly again 48 hours later, especially for a night turn. The flying limits - targets - used in the region are not realistic, and have no regard to a person’s physical and mental requirements. I watched many pilots who are exhausted, and just ‘managing to get through’ a flight, as opposed to working efficiently, and indeed learning how to work better.

There are a plethora of other issues that need fixing, but won’t be. Following are issues that, when tallied with work-life balance, has pilots leaving in numbers that haven't been seen before.

When Annual Leave is promulgated, some form of training is invariably allocated immediately upon completion. This is unacceptable and shows complete disregard to what Annual Leave was designed for. Annual Leave is a time to be free of all things to do with work, and when training is the first duty after leave this is not the case! The need to study for PPCs or a Line Check will become the focus of at least the last few days of Leave, and will more than likely be on the pilot's mind during Leave. This is totally unacceptable. Does an office worker spend their holidays having to study for a potentially career changing -or ending - event when they return to work?

Despite the massive increase in hours and duties the pay has failed to keep up, especially considering the cost of living in Dubai. The Productivity Payments are in no way an adequate reimbursement for the free time taken from the pilot. The practice of allocating 14 days AL and then flying for 60-70hrs in the remaining days is another issue. By that ratio, a pilot is flying 120 hrs for the month, but as there is no pro-rata of AL for the month will receive no Productivity Pay. This is an appalling practice because firstly the Company is compressing the roster for the remainder of the month (which they won't allow you to do if you tried to get days off!), meaning the pilot is even more exhausted than normal, and secondly because there is no financial reward/payment for it.

While discussing Annual Leave, the habit of allocating 5 days of AL then flying maximum hours for the rest of the month means that the Annual Leave has merely been reduced from the pilot's entitlement with no benefit. As an expat airline, Annual Leave is almost sacred to an employee in order to return home and visit family, or utilise to travel efficiently. When they are receiving, generally, a maximum allocation of only 14 days, this does not allow the expats who come from North America, South America, or Oceania to travel home and enjoy their time off. This also needs to be considered in the context of only 1 ALT being allocated per year - pilots are supposed to receive 42 days Annual Leave (I never did, 7 years in the airline) - and so for the remaining days allocated in small blocks there is no confirmed ticket to return home or travel. This is an abject failure for an expat airline.

The Company has a Punitive Culture. End of story. No ifs or buts, it is a punitive culture. The only employee group in the Company who accepts responsibility - the pilots - are the ones who are themselves treated with a lack of respect for the position, and receive the greatest threats. I lost count of the amount of times I was spoken to disrespectfully by staff and quite literally treated with contempt. These are not an isolated occurrences, and it is a reflection of how management treats its pilots - the other employee groups have noticed it, and decided that they too can act the same way. It is a disturbing aspect for the Company - the constant threat of job loss for a mistake is not a way to promote a safety-conscious culture in an airline; it does the opposite. Fatigue is not something that is caused just by the rostered flying, it is also from the constant - perceived or real - threats from management regarding job security. Here we have the conflicting situation of 2 pilots who are entrusted with an expensive asset and 400 passengers (an even more expensive asset!), and yet are treated like teenagers.

The company view regarding Sick Leave is just another problem with the culture. To be confirmed sick by a company doctor, have a large number of days off because of illness or surgery but then be forced to attend a meeting to discuss ‘productivity’ shows how disconnected the Company has become from the reality of a good working culture, or how far removed they are from being an Employer of Choice (Bahahaha - nice survey, what happened to the results?) The working environment is now resulting in people becoming sick at a higher rate than they should - this is what should be the focus of a company that wants to be a good employer. Sending automatic emails when a sick leave threshold has been crossed is a poor practice.

The rostering system is a mess and total failure. This is not because of the system that is being used, but because of the number of unwarranted conditions that are placed into it which are destroying it’s ability to perform. ‘Success’ being defined as having only 1 of your bids awarded and the remainder being constructed from anything is not ‘success.’ The overwhelming majority of pilots are expats, and one of the promoted benefits of joining is the ability to “bid to allow you more time with the family, or experience it’s new and exciting destinations” (*Emirates Pilot Recruitment Video, 2011.) This is not true. Manually restricting days off around Annual Leave is also performed, and for Expats it is a major negative aspect to job satisfaction.

The study prior to PPCs is box ticking by a department that has completely lost its way. The number of modules that now have to be completed is ridiculous, and serve no purpose other than for the Company remove fault from itself, should the pilot make an error at some stage, by stating that they were trained in it. There is a RGTS day prior to the simulator, the need to do more modules prior is completely unwarranted and is simply encroaching on more of a pilot’s already limited downtime.

The simulator timings themselves are also in need of revamp. A pilot simply will not perform at 3am as well as they will during normal day time hours. Repeated rostering of PPCs during the hours of 2300-0600 means that a pilot is getting absolutely no training benefit from the session, and is being placed into a position where their job is on the line, and they are not sufficiently rested for it. The argument that we fly jets at that time so you should be able to perform at that time is completely and totally ignorant. At 3am on a line flight we don’t have 3 major malfunctions occur and have to deal with, then get repositioned for a number of Low-Viz approaches with failures, then get repositioned for more approaches and/or failures that are all graded ‘Pass/Fail.’ To state that there has been ‘no change to the failure rate witnessed’ since the system has been changed to 3 simulator day training event running on concurrent days is similarly ignorant. I thought Day 3 was meant to be learning day? How much productive learning occurs between 2300-0600 for an exhausted pilot? The answer is none.

Emirates offered what should be the best and most challenging career for pilots- the network and aircraft are second to none. What should be a very easy ‘yes’ decision for prospective pilots to make when considering Emirates has now turned the other way because of the reasons I stated above and more. It is very disappointing for those of that left their home countries to work for what they considered was a progressive airline, and yet is now completely regressive.

But remember, "there is just too much negativity. Think positive - that is all that is needed for things to be good. Positive thinking will make everything good." Happiness Street anyone?

Good luck!