Anyone actually like Emirates? (Hamster Wheel Thread)
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Life is easy here..the job is easy, just as long as you are prepared to swim with the current..and not get all self righteous and indignant because YOU think YOU know better than the locals
Very appropriate and well said falconeasydriver.P.S am one of the happy guys in EK
Falcon driver, I am very glad your short time in the sand has been good to you. But, alas, some of us have had our conditions of service reduced to those same ones you were happy to sign up to.
When we joined, the company paid for all the utilities, just like it said it would in our contract. When we joined we got paid a min of 3.5hrs for any day at work, including reserve, sims, SEP or any ground schools. We were also paid 2.5hrs for every day of leave. We were paid productivity pay when we worked overtime. The school fee allowance paid for a min of 90% of the school fees.
So yes we may be a bit miffed to see life style and earning capacity continually eroded. If only we to had your low expectations, and were more willing to to go with the flow, or as you rightly say, "swim with the current", and smile as the company steals from us.
In fact most of us now are making Aed 8400 per month less than we were 6 months before you joined. That hurts. And it is upsetting when you see the same company make record profits at the same time as stealing off its employees.
Perhaps if they returned us to our original conditions, and left you with your conditions we all could be happy.
The Don
When we joined, the company paid for all the utilities, just like it said it would in our contract. When we joined we got paid a min of 3.5hrs for any day at work, including reserve, sims, SEP or any ground schools. We were also paid 2.5hrs for every day of leave. We were paid productivity pay when we worked overtime. The school fee allowance paid for a min of 90% of the school fees.
So yes we may be a bit miffed to see life style and earning capacity continually eroded. If only we to had your low expectations, and were more willing to to go with the flow, or as you rightly say, "swim with the current", and smile as the company steals from us.
In fact most of us now are making Aed 8400 per month less than we were 6 months before you joined. That hurts. And it is upsetting when you see the same company make record profits at the same time as stealing off its employees.Perhaps if they returned us to our original conditions, and left you with your conditions we all could be happy.
The Don
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Only dead fish swim with the flow!
just as long as you are prepared to swim with the current..
Call me unruly, stubborn or having too much pride...but no f
gdimwit manager and/or local is going to make me back down because I fear to lose my job!
If that is o.k. for you and it makes you happy...enjoy it but please don't tell others "to get a grip...life...etc."
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Falcon driver, I am very glad your short time in the sand has been good to you. But, alas, some of us have had our conditions of service reduced to those same ones you were happy to sign up to.
When we joined, the company paid for all the utilities, just like it said it would in our contract. When we joined we got paid a min of 3.5hrs for any day at work, including reserve, sims, SEP or any ground schools. We were also paid 2.5hrs for every day of leave. We were paid productivity pay when we worked overtime. The school fee allowance paid for a min of 90% of the school fees.
So yes we may be a bit miffed to see life style and earning capacity continually eroded. If only we to had your low expectations, and were more willing to to go with the flow, or as you rightly say, "swim with the current", and smile as the company steals from us.In fact most of us now are making Aed 8400 per month less than we were 6 months before you joined. That hurts. And it is upsetting when you see the same company make record profits at the same time as stealing off its employees.
Perhaps if they returned us to our original conditions, and left you with your conditions we all could be happy.
When we joined, the company paid for all the utilities, just like it said it would in our contract. When we joined we got paid a min of 3.5hrs for any day at work, including reserve, sims, SEP or any ground schools. We were also paid 2.5hrs for every day of leave. We were paid productivity pay when we worked overtime. The school fee allowance paid for a min of 90% of the school fees.
So yes we may be a bit miffed to see life style and earning capacity continually eroded. If only we to had your low expectations, and were more willing to to go with the flow, or as you rightly say, "swim with the current", and smile as the company steals from us.
In fact most of us now are making Aed 8400 per month less than we were 6 months before you joined. That hurts. And it is upsetting when you see the same company make record profits at the same time as stealing off its employees.Perhaps if they returned us to our original conditions, and left you with your conditions we all could be happy.
Sorry FEdriver, that is exactly NOT part of "the quality of life" I mentioned.
Call me unruly, stubborn or having too much pride...but no f
g
dimwit manager and/or local is going to make me back down because I fear to lose my job!
If that is o.k. for you and it makes you happy...enjoy it but please don't tell others "to get a grip...life...etc."
Call me unruly, stubborn or having too much pride...but no f
gdimwit manager and/or local is going to make me back down because I fear to lose my job!
If that is o.k. for you and it makes you happy...enjoy it but please don't tell others "to get a grip...life...etc."
Where on the planet are you going to find T & C's like you enjoyed previously?
You guys had a cozy little expat club/airline that was the envy of those looking from the outside in....
All you have experienced is what most of the rest of us have had to endure over the past 5 years or so flying elsewhere.
My old man was out here 30 years ago, and nothing has changed, so I fail to see how some of the moaners on here seem to think that they somehow have had anymore influence than anyone else.
All I'm interested in is looking after my family..putting grub on the table, and having a life, I'm not interested in bitching about how the good old days were..the company steals off me blah blah blah, get over it..adapt, play smart etc..evolve or die.
Sorry, but get used to the new reality.....or try getting into KLM/Air France...or perhaps Korean might suit you a little better
Last edited by falconeasydriver; 27th Dec 2010 at 15:05.
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Things have changed globally and EK knows it. They can do what they want to whom they want and don't care about the employee. The fact is they never have. Yes there have been a very few number of guys that were looked after and make no mistake the EK PR spin machine took max advantage and credit for it.
I'm the first to leave this sh!t hole as soon as I can but for now it is just not happening. Have to look at the hole package and the rest of the industry.
Trust me when I say been here 10 years and want out!!!
There are guys that have left and came back and some that tried and were told NO way, so you make your own bed.
Most US pilots I fly with say that they are not going anywhere at the moment. Bottom of the list at Delta after recalls = a long time RES MD80, not to mention the rest of the furlowed pilots/ mil/ civilian in the states that would be looking at the majors and have more years to serve.
EK is not bad based on whats out there now, most of us have taken a 20% pay cut and have seen nothing come back. Airbus right now bad soon it will be the 777. 380/350 will be doing all the nice stuff and the old dog of the fleet the sh!t.
I'm the first to leave this sh!t hole as soon as I can but for now it is just not happening. Have to look at the hole package and the rest of the industry.
Trust me when I say been here 10 years and want out!!!
There are guys that have left and came back and some that tried and were told NO way, so you make your own bed.
Most US pilots I fly with say that they are not going anywhere at the moment. Bottom of the list at Delta after recalls = a long time RES MD80, not to mention the rest of the furlowed pilots/ mil/ civilian in the states that would be looking at the majors and have more years to serve.
EK is not bad based on whats out there now, most of us have taken a 20% pay cut and have seen nothing come back. Airbus right now bad soon it will be the 777. 380/350 will be doing all the nice stuff and the old dog of the fleet the sh!t.
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The old Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared", is worth remembering here. Always be prepared to have terms and conditions changed for the negative. Be prepared for consequences of an unintentional mistake, ie, be prepared for the firing, the downgrade, the upgrade being delayed or never happening. Be prepared for the inane politics of the company and local paperwork mill. Be prepared for the wife being fed up with husband being away and the wife turning into a single mother.
It's been said many times before. This airline is so close to being one of the best jobs in the industry, but there seems to be some mindset that it just can't or won't happen. Just a few years ago yes....today no.
Just be prepared for one's expectations not being met/fulfilled and be prepared for the unexpected both from our city state and from our company. But above all, be prepared never, ever to embarress the EK brand logo or name in any form.
It's been said many times before. This airline is so close to being one of the best jobs in the industry, but there seems to be some mindset that it just can't or won't happen. Just a few years ago yes....today no.
Just be prepared for one's expectations not being met/fulfilled and be prepared for the unexpected both from our city state and from our company. But above all, be prepared never, ever to embarress the EK brand logo or name in any form.
Correction Don. We were not paid anything for sim, res, SEP etc. We were credited hours. If you went into productivity time, THEN we got paid accordingly.
Thanks to TCK, along with civi's in the TC and company transport for the instructors on sim duty ++++, that all disappeared.
This place is tolerable if you ignore it.
Without access to the inter-web, many would be in jail now or deported.
As we all know, it gives you access to the outside world and more importantly, home.
Not reading the local papers, listening to local radio or watching any local TV stations brings on a sense of being elsewhere.
Read the news on the internet, radio streaming from home and TV by the same method or anything OSN throws that is from home is better at isolating you from what the realties are of being here.
This may (will) sound lame to some, but l don't give a flying! As are my feelings towards Dubai.
halas
Thanks to TCK, along with civi's in the TC and company transport for the instructors on sim duty ++++, that all disappeared.
This place is tolerable if you ignore it.
Without access to the inter-web, many would be in jail now or deported.
As we all know, it gives you access to the outside world and more importantly, home.
Not reading the local papers, listening to local radio or watching any local TV stations brings on a sense of being elsewhere.
Read the news on the internet, radio streaming from home and TV by the same method or anything OSN throws that is from home is better at isolating you from what the realties are of being here.
This may (will) sound lame to some, but l don't give a flying
! As are my feelings towards Dubai.halas
Don't know when you joined Halas but prior to 2003 we were paid 3.5hrs for reserve sims etc. It all came to an end when an engineer taking charge did not like pilots having time off, even though they had flown 900hrs in 365 or 100hrs in 28 day, so ordered min days off with other days being rostered as AD. Leading to huge overpay of overtime. This happened at the same time FOs were promised that DECs would not delay upgrades.
To true Falcon driver. Don't let our factually accurate posts get in the way of your "I feel so great to fly a widebody" posts. Long may your enjoyment last. But lets just hope that the new joiners in the future do not hold onto to lower standard of required employment, because I am sure neither you nor I could afford it.
The Don
Ps. Sorry Halas. You were correct. We were not burdened with flight pay then. We were on basic salary only (which would optimise bonus, pension etc) so were only credited the time into productivity. Sorry about that, I think it may be old age.
Don't worry about the flying club Falcon driver. I have chatted to ex bizjet pilots that could not make it into easyjet that are 777 drivers here now. The EK pilot group is the only group in EK and DANATA that has taken pay cuts (two big ones and one small one since I have been here). Our managers are paid more now than in 2008, we will be years away from breaking even. You will do so earlier than the FO that joined in May 2008 as you are on the same basic as him, as will be the FO joining in March 2011. Feeding your family is very noble, but defending the race to the bottom term and condition wise is not so. Can you think of any other profession that would justify a reduction of terms and conditions as you have offered? Some complain about pay to fly, is that any different to a new joiner complaining that those in the company complain about their reduced conditions that are offered now, and that a new joiner thinks is all dandy? Help me out here, when will conditions be lowered enough (according to your own well balanced criteria of course) for the rest of us to be justifiably unhappy?
To true Falcon driver. Don't let our factually accurate posts get in the way of your "I feel so great to fly a widebody" posts. Long may your enjoyment last. But lets just hope that the new joiners in the future do not hold onto to lower standard of required employment, because I am sure neither you nor I could afford it.
The Don
Ps. Sorry Halas. You were correct. We were not burdened with flight pay then. We were on basic salary only (which would optimise bonus, pension etc) so were only credited the time into productivity. Sorry about that, I think it may be old age.
Don't worry about the flying club Falcon driver. I have chatted to ex bizjet pilots that could not make it into easyjet that are 777 drivers here now. The EK pilot group is the only group in EK and DANATA that has taken pay cuts (two big ones and one small one since I have been here). Our managers are paid more now than in 2008, we will be years away from breaking even. You will do so earlier than the FO that joined in May 2008 as you are on the same basic as him, as will be the FO joining in March 2011. Feeding your family is very noble, but defending the race to the bottom term and condition wise is not so. Can you think of any other profession that would justify a reduction of terms and conditions as you have offered? Some complain about pay to fly, is that any different to a new joiner complaining that those in the company complain about their reduced conditions that are offered now, and that a new joiner thinks is all dandy? Help me out here, when will conditions be lowered enough (according to your own well balanced criteria of course) for the rest of us to be justifiably unhappy?
Last edited by donpizmeov; 27th Dec 2010 at 17:41.
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Don't let our factually accurate posts get in the way of your "I feel so great to fly a widebody" posts. Long may your enjoyment last. But lets just hope that the new joiners in the future do not hold onto to lower standard of required employment, because I am sure neither you nor I could afford it.
, I even managed to fumble my way into the left seat of the thing.Don FWIW, I ACTUALLY agree with substantially all you've got to say..the difference is I'm not deluding myself into thinking that this place will ever change for the better.
I could tomorrow head back off to parts unknown and more than likely pick up a 550 or Falcon job, and probably earn a fair bit more than what I earn now. The difference is, EK offers a stable job, with very little in the way of disruption etc etc, and I'm happy to be home a heck of a lot more now, than I've ever been (this year was the first time in 5 years I've been around at Christmas)
Don, I hear what you are saying, I hear what others have to say....but I've also seen with my own two eyes guys in positions of higher seniority say plenty of things..and then when push comes to shove..they stay on an "A" scale..while others head off on a "B" scale.
I've seen nothing in my time at EK to suggest otherwise..everyone is out for themselves because that is the company/expat culture.
The only way this place will change is when demand exceeds supply, you can argue to your blue in the face about all the other variables...but that Don is the simple arithmetic, is it right? well that all depends on your perspective...to me, it just is what it is.
Lastly
Don't worry about the flying club Falcon driver. I have chatted to ex bizjet pilots that could not make it into easyjet that are 777 drivers here now.
Last edited by falconeasydriver; 27th Dec 2010 at 18:13.
Falcon driver, Good on you for stating whats its like here. That is the information that people reading these forums need to hear as it helps with the decision making on whether or not this is the place for them or not.
The problem the guys I fly with lately have is they are amazed when conditions change at the drop of a hat, as if its all happening for the first time.
To arm this site with factual information, rather than information about beaches being nice, or the sun shining a lot, helps them and their families see what they are getting into before they arrive.
I am sorry if you thought I was taking a shot at Biz or easyjet pilots. From the training department and the recruiting department it would seem that easyjet pilots are quite well regarded.What I tried to convey, unsuccessfully, was, that in the past we were taking ex BA, Dragonair, QF, Air Canada etc guys, now we are taking fellas who have not made it to a low cost airline. That says quite a bit about how our salary package has changed.
The Don
The problem the guys I fly with lately have is they are amazed when conditions change at the drop of a hat, as if its all happening for the first time.
To arm this site with factual information, rather than information about beaches being nice, or the sun shining a lot, helps them and their families see what they are getting into before they arrive.
I am sorry if you thought I was taking a shot at Biz or easyjet pilots. From the training department and the recruiting department it would seem that easyjet pilots are quite well regarded.What I tried to convey, unsuccessfully, was, that in the past we were taking ex BA, Dragonair, QF, Air Canada etc guys, now we are taking fellas who have not made it to a low cost airline. That says quite a bit about how our salary package has changed.
The Don
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Everything changes, though, and individual airlines become more or less apepaling over time. I have a relative who's involved in recruiting at BA and he said that it can be difficult to prise people away from the likes of easyJet because the BA Ts&Cs are not that attractive anymore (especially when coupled with a LOOOOOOOONG wait for command). on the plus side, they are actually recruiting pilots at the moment and were massively over subscribed.
However, I suspect that many of the people complaining about EK and EY could well do with pausing to compare their position with those back in their home countries where airlines have been shedding pilot jobs (or at least not expanding) for a while. Yes there's a lot of crap to put up with out here but it could be worse - it could be Saudi Arabia where your wife and children will have a REALLY crappy lifestyle.
However, I suspect that many of the people complaining about EK and EY could well do with pausing to compare their position with those back in their home countries where airlines have been shedding pilot jobs (or at least not expanding) for a while. Yes there's a lot of crap to put up with out here but it could be worse - it could be Saudi Arabia where your wife and children will have a REALLY crappy lifestyle.
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unhelpful at best but occasionally there have been some good posts
Remember also that whilst I fully accept that I am in the FUEK group on this forum I am a line pilot, a very tired and pi**ed off one. However there is an element of the pro-group masquerading as pilots whose are directed by EK to counter the bad press...
I really hope you have made the right decision. I did not. It would be interesting to see how you feel in a year or so. If you're leaving a command I think you are making a bad mistake, if not you can be sure it will be an interesting ride... and EK are good at taking people for a ride.
Last edited by Marooned; 29th Dec 2010 at 04:33.
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easy, you are so cute,
check some of the older posts, there are hundreds like you that didnt want to hear and believe the truth.
good luck
ps: hope you'll get some helpful posts that say what you want to hear
check some of the older posts, there are hundreds like you that didnt want to hear and believe the truth.
good luck
ps: hope you'll get some helpful posts that say what you want to hear
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Sig,
In short my advice to you is stay in the US.
Dubai and EK still has alot to offer but it is not enough to uproot you and your family to move to the other side of the planet.
I can offer this advice as an American flying for EK.
In short my advice to you is stay in the US.
Dubai and EK still has alot to offer but it is not enough to uproot you and your family to move to the other side of the planet.
I can offer this advice as an American flying for EK.
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Easy...you will crack worry not! And you will regret..big time!!!
Without ever really having a clue to my background, motivation, professional integrity, and god forbid....my humanity
But never mind..you keep up your tirades....they are vaguely amusing, in fact to be honest, I laugh more at your posts these days than I do when I read the editorial of the good news..errr gulf lies..errr...Gulf News
As for cracking, well for your info sunshine...that happened when I hit puberty
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Everyone experiences EK and Dubai differently
I have worked for EK as cabin crew for 4 years (1998-2002, the good old days..;-), and have lived in DXB for 13 years. Just came back to Europe few months back and I'm happy I did. Dubai is a great place to live if you like luxury, sunshine and going out to numerous clubs, bars and restaurants. I used to enjoy it to the max, but now that I'm a bit older (39?!) other things more important in life to me.
In DXB you do find a more protected childhood for children (not much drugs etc to be found), but they're bored to bits at times as there is not much to do for them. They can't even go out for a beer until they're 21 years old.
I look back at a great learning experience, and yes it's a tough one at times, getting things done is not as easy as in the west, but I wouldn't want to have missed it! On the other hand you can buy and drive a great car for about 20% of what I pay now!
And why not try it for a few years. It's a great city if you're able to travel out of the country on a regular basis. Go for it I would say.
In DXB you do find a more protected childhood for children (not much drugs etc to be found), but they're bored to bits at times as there is not much to do for them. They can't even go out for a beer until they're 21 years old.
I look back at a great learning experience, and yes it's a tough one at times, getting things done is not as easy as in the west, but I wouldn't want to have missed it! On the other hand you can buy and drive a great car for about 20% of what I pay now!
And why not try it for a few years. It's a great city if you're able to travel out of the country on a regular basis. Go for it I would say.